Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2023 10:41 am

Dunners wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2023 7:43 pm This is hardly surprising news, but the Israeli ambassador confirms the idea of a 2 state solution is dead.

More liberal, left of centre Israelis are hoping that October 7th will wake people up to just how incompetent and deceitful the ultra nationalists in charge are, and how counter productive their pro settler, anti two state solution stance is. They have only made the country less safe and secure.

It's an optimistic reading and obviously there's going to be a massive appetite for revenge that's hard to see go away, but have to hang onto the hope that October 7th was a reset moment where the Israeli people realise something radical needs to change and that an approach of more of the same, only more so, isn't going to make them safer.

Oh come on.

Even most ‘neutrals’ over here don’t see it that way.

Rich Tea Wellin wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2023 11:24 am

Neptune's Spear wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2023 11:17 am Most people here have taken the side of the Palestinians in this current conflict not because they particularly care about the Palestinians but because theyre anti semitic. But thats stating the obvious

Any facts a figures to back up a very serious claim like that?

Have you ever visited the planet Earth ?

Neptune's Spear wrote: ↑Sat Dec 16, 2023 12:41 pm

Rich Tea Wellin wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2023 11:24 am

Neptune's Spear wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2023 11:17 am Most people here have taken the side of the Palestinians in this current conflict not because they particularly care about the Palestinians but because theyre anti semitic. But thats stating the obvious

Any facts a figures to back up a very serious claim like that?

Have you ever visited the planet Earth ?

I dont agree with you that people are intrinsically anti semitic, but you do. So why do you think that is? what makes all these people anti semitic?
Are these people racists in general? Do they hate black people, do they hate Asian people too?
I think, in the UK, Islamophobia, is far more prevalent than antisemitism

Neptune's Spear wrote: ↑Sat Dec 16, 2023 12:41 pm

Rich Tea Wellin wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2023 11:24 am

Neptune's Spear wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2023 11:17 am Most people here have taken the side of the Palestinians in this current conflict not because they particularly care about the Palestinians but because theyre anti semitic. But thats stating the obvious

Any facts a figures to back up a very serious claim like that?

Have you ever visited the planet Earth ?

"No" is less typing, would've saved you time

Proposition Joe wrote: ↑Sat Dec 16, 2023 1:14 pm

Neptune's Spear wrote: ↑Sat Dec 16, 2023 12:41 pm

Rich Tea Wellin wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2023 11:24 am

Any facts a figures to back up a very serious claim like that?

Have you ever visited the planet Earth ?

"No" is less typing, would've saved you time

If you had half a brain youd be dangerous

Neptune's Spear wrote: ↑Sat Dec 16, 2023 1:35 pm

Proposition Joe wrote: ↑Sat Dec 16, 2023 1:14 pm

Neptune's Spear wrote: ↑Sat Dec 16, 2023 12:41 pm
Have you ever visited the planet Earth ?

"No" is less typing, would've saved you time

If you had half a brain youd be dangerous

were the 3 hostages waving a white cloth on a stick of surrender gunned down by anti semitic trigger happy members of the IDF ?

Neptune's Spear wrote: ↑Sat Dec 16, 2023 1:35 pm

Proposition Joe wrote: ↑Sat Dec 16, 2023 1:14 pm

Neptune's Spear wrote: ↑Sat Dec 16, 2023 12:41 pm
Have you ever visited the planet Earth ?

"No" is less typing, would've saved you time

If you had half a brain youd be dangerous

Stick to the "Have you ever sh*t yourself as an adult?" thread, that's just about your intellectual level

Neptune's Spear wrote: ↑Sat Dec 16, 2023 1:35 pm

Proposition Joe wrote: ↑Sat Dec 16, 2023 1:14 pm

Neptune's Spear wrote: ↑Sat Dec 16, 2023 12:41 pm
Have you ever visited the planet Earth ?

"No" is less typing, would've saved you time

If you had half a brain youd be dangerous

*you'd

Neptune's Spear wrote: ↑Sat Dec 16, 2023 12:41 pm

Rich Tea Wellin wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2023 11:24 am

Neptune's Spear wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2023 11:17 am Most people here have taken the side of the Palestinians in this current conflict not because they particularly care about the Palestinians but because theyre anti semitic. But thats stating the obvious

Any facts a figures to back up a very serious claim like that?

Have you ever visited the planet Earth ?

No then

You put your right wing in

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/wes-streetin ... -conflict/

You take your right wing out

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/other/sh ... i-AA1lDW4F

That's what it's all about!

Ex-Defence Secretary, Ben Wallace, has written this (surprising) criticism of Israel's actions: www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/12/17/net ... ing-israel

Did not have "Ben Wallace supports Hamas" on my weekly news bingo card, tbf.

Glad he wasn't coming out with this nonsense 2 months ago when it would have been both ridiculous and naive to suggest such an approach.

While the situation in Gaza is understandably getting most of the attention, the situation in the Red Sea is not getting nearly enough. The attacks from Yemen on both merchant and military shipping has the potential to see a serious escalation. And BP have now just confirmed that they are to halt all oil and gas shipments through that region up towards Suez.

Oh well, that’ll be another good excuse for fuel prices going through the ceiling again. Pretty sure BP profits won’t be impacted.

Yep. Rather convenient for Iran too. But, and I may be reading a little too much into this, it may not be a coincidence that the recent calls from Western leaders for a proper ceasefire coincides with the increase in attacks on shipping in that area.

European states, dependant on oil and gas imports through Suez, would much prefer a de-escalation at this point. Because the alternative will be to either bribe the Houthis so they disengage with Tehran, or Yemen gets the ol' Iraq 03 treatment.

Can one of the MENA experts on here explain why the gulf states are leaving policing of the Red Sea to the west when petroleum exports via the route are so integral to their interests?

Avoided this thread until now but can someone point me in the direction of the agro on here leading to the hilarious banishment of CEB on the other thread

No. Start on page 1

I don't need another obsessive on my case.

Currywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Mon Dec 18, 2023 6:53 pm Can one of the MENA experts on here explain why the gulf states are leaving policing of the Red Sea to the west when petroleum exports via the route are so integral to their interests?

I'm no expert, but could it be that the large swathes of the world has become too accustomed to relying on the US navy (with some French and UK backing) to police the main sea lanes for everyone else's trade benefit? Not that the alternative - a mix of competing navies rubbing shoulders with each other - isn't without it own risks either.

These 'incidents' in the Red Sea now appear to be a daily occurrence.

Dunners wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 7:50 am

Currywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Mon Dec 18, 2023 6:53 pm Can one of the MENA experts on here explain why the gulf states are leaving policing of the Red Sea to the west when petroleum exports via the route are so integral to their interests?

I'm no expert, but could it be that the large swathes of the world has become too accustomed to relying on the US navy (with some French and UK backing) to police the main sea lanes for everyone else's trade benefit? Not that the alternative - a mix of competing navies rubbing shoulders with each other - isn't without it own risks either.

This was my initial thought.

The narrative these last 7-12 years though has been the US and the UK have become more isolationist and the UK’s armed forces are threadbare.

Also, what about all those billions of arms sales to Saudi that certain people get worked up about that were specifically for their military efforts against the Houthis…..

Currywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 8:13 am

Dunners wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 7:50 am

Currywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Mon Dec 18, 2023 6:53 pm Can one of the MENA experts on here explain why the gulf states are leaving policing of the Red Sea to the west when petroleum exports via the route are so integral to their interests?

I'm no expert, but could it be that the large swathes of the world has become too accustomed to relying on the US navy (with some French and UK backing) to police the main sea lanes for everyone else's trade benefit? Not that the alternative - a mix of competing navies rubbing shoulders with each other - isn't without it own risks either.

This was my initial thought.

The narrative these last 7-12 years though has been the US and the UK have become more isolationist and the UK’s armed forces are threadbare.

Also, what about all those billions of arms sales to Saudi that certain people get worked up about that were specifically for their military efforts against the Houthis…..

I think the narrative is broadly correct - relative to, say, the 1945-2008 period, the US has become more isolationist with each successive presidential election. UK armed forces have also been cut, but the British Navy remains a force to be reckoned with relative to what most of the world has. But if things properly kick off then, as we can see with the exhausted munitions supply to Ukraine, a Western coalition success is by no means a certainty.

The arms sales to the Saudis - well, f*ck knows where half of that stuff ends up. The dilemma any Saudi-type regime will face is that, should it invest in its own conventional military, then they risk their own military developing into a threat against their own ruling elite and mounting a coup. The 'safest' option is therefore to invest in an air force, and was to partner with Israel for the army and nuclear support against Iran (and US/UK naval cover).

But an air force on it's own will never be enough against a side like the Houthis. They're not just some rag-band of rebels roaming around on the back of a 4x4 with some semi-automatics. They are large in number, occupy well defended ground positions throughout Yemen, have sophisticated tactical equipment, and actually have considerable support from the population. And, just in case I haven't mentioned it, they have serious funding from Iran.