Independent Leyton Orient Forum

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 6:49 pm

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 6:31 pm Now you're saying the opposite to what you claimed earlier.

No
You are reading what i am saying incorrectly

JE didnt know anything about it
Just as the Doctors wouldnt have.

Anybody can get covid & have no underlying H.C
Then boom Cardiac arrest happens.

Still as long as its only 1 in 10 who are not
old or have Underlyig health problems..

Baffling.

CASES OVERVIEW

Sweden

Confirmed

12,540

Recovered

-

Deaths

1,333

Worldwide

Confirmed

2,101,164

Recovered

532,830

Deaths

140,773

So sweden has a 10 % death rate of confirmed cases

The rest of the world has 6% .-7%

Why are we looking at Sweden ?

Because he wanted to know what happens without a lockdown? Not everything I post is an endorsement.

Sometimes its hard to tell.

But then who is to say they are wrong? They have a higher death rate at the moment but this could run for years and there will be other consequences too.

Other consequences ?

Do tell

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:56 pm

Real Al wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:43 pm

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 12:26 pm Feels unfair on healthy folk like myself. The longer this goes on, the more painful the recovery will be.

"Mum, mum. Can you show me what 'a lack of empathy' means."

I just have empathy with different people to you. Can you imagine if the tables were turned and this virus mainly affected young people? You think old folk would be in favour of a lockdown for months?

Hey - see you do have empathy. Empathy is being able to put yourself in another person's shoes and you've done that.

Admittedly you've then decided "f*** young people", but little steps, eh?

I notice on tonight's question time a so called expert said face masks don't really offer protection against the virus anyone got any thoughts on this

BIGRON wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 9:01 pm I notice on tonight's question time a so called expert said face masks don't really offer protection against the virus anyone got any thoughts on this

Sounds like complete bowlocks Ron. Covers the fact we don’t have enough.

If they didn’t work, why are other countries all wearing then? Even the Japanese cabinet are.

Disoriented wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 9:05 pm

BIGRON wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 9:01 pm I notice on tonight's question time a so called expert said face masks don't really offer protection against the virus anyone got any thoughts on this

Sounds like complete bowlocks Ron. Covers the fact we don’t have enough.

If they didn’t work, why are other countries all wearing then? Even the Japanese cabinet are.

She reckoned they stop you spreading the virus to others but don't stop others giving it to you , as you say, it sounds a load of bowlocks ..... me and eer indoors having been unable to purchase any coz the rip off merchants are asking silly prices .

BIGRON wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 9:28 pm

Disoriented wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 9:05 pm

BIGRON wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 9:01 pm I notice on tonight's question time a so called expert said face masks don't really offer protection against the virus anyone got any thoughts on this

Sounds like complete bowlocks Ron. Covers the fact we don’t have enough.

If they didn’t work, why are other countries all wearing then? Even the Japanese cabinet are.

She reckoned they stop you spreading the virus to others but don't stop others giving it to you , as you say, it sounds a load of bowlocks ..... me and eer indoors having been unable to purchase any coz the rip off merchants are asking silly prices .

Ditto.

Mayor of London wants us all to wear one.

Real Al wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 7:56 pm

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:56 pm

Real Al wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:43 pm

"Mum, mum. Can you show me what 'a lack of empathy' means."

I just have empathy with different people to you. Can you imagine if the tables were turned and this virus mainly affected young people? You think old folk would be in favour of a lockdown for months?

Hey - see you do have empathy. Empathy is being able to put yourself in another person's shoes and you've done that.

Admittedly you've then decided "f*** young people", but little steps, eh?

Eh? I don't think that at all.

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 6:49 pm

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 6:31 pm Now you're saying the opposite to what you claimed earlier.

No
You are reading what i am saying incorrectly

JE didnt know anything about it
Just as the Doctors wouldnt have.

Anybody can get covid & have no underlying H.C
Then boom Cardiac arrest happens.

Still as long as its only 1 in 10 who are not
old or have Underlyig health problems..

We'll all have to get it at some point, until there's a vaccine.

The focus on masks is driving me a bit mad at work, having to explain at least 10 times a day why we aren't dishing them out to people to wear at all times. Then having to explain over and again to people who need to be wearing them how to use them properly.

This video is annoyingly American but shows how a virus spreads

Hand hygiene is far more effective than wearing a mask and if, as almost everyone I see is doing , you are using a mask incorrectly you are just increasing the risk of spreading an infection around. A surgical mask is a single use bit of kit, as soon as you dislodge it it is no longer effective and even if you keep it on they are only good for about 2 hours. By having a mask on your face, which gets hot and uncomfortable pretty quickly, you will unconsciously touch your face more, transferring whatever is on your hands to the mask. The people who pull them off and put them round their chin or on top of their head are then transferring whatever is in their hair or chin to the inside of the mask, then putting it right back over their mouth and nose to take a nice deep huff of whatever they have contaminated it with. If you use one then out it in your pocket or down on a surface you have potentially contaminated your clothes or the surface it was put on. If you have it in your pocket, every time you touch it you are topping up a possible contamination on your hands to spread elsewhere.

If everyone was trained to use them and dispose of them properly then they would be incredibly effective. At work our areas are separated into cohort (infected people) areas and clean areas. When leaving a cohort area all the masks and pipe come off. If not then whatever is on your gloves and mask is spread to the clean area, doing that and trying to not to waste them gets through about 10 changes a day, and thats just moving about in one building. Imagine doing that every time you entered and left a new space during your daily routine. Going by that 10 a day figure we'd need nearly 5 billion masks a week for the population to use them properly, so yes part of the reason they aren't recommended is there aren't enough to go round. I accept there would be quite a degree of added protection with 2 or 3 changes a day, but that's still a billion a week at the lowest useful amount.

Less well understood is how effective they are at stopping germs getting out, but there is some evidence they are effective at reducing transmission within a population. For this to work there's no point using surgical masks, any old dirty rag will do, which is basically what a surgical mask is after a few hours.

There are a few studies on how much airbourne transmission may be taking place, none conclusive and whatever they say it is still surface to hand to face that will be the main route.

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 7:07 pm

RoryRocks wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 3:31 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:33 pm Fox news making a laughing stock of themselves as usual.

Sure they are not even a News channel. They fought a lawsuit to state they are an Entertainment channel.

On a secondary note, could you imagine the dire situation if there was no social distancing and lockdown?

For your answer look at Sweden.

Compare Sweden to the other Nordic countries and you'll find you are away off the mark. Perhaps for phase 2, the herd immunity will come into play, perhaps.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0414/11304 ... ronavirus/

If you read previous posts, I am not endorsing Sweden, just giving an example.

But you did go to the "look at Sweden model"
which is what a lot of the trumpettes are doing

Ah but Sweden arent locking down .

The Alt Right are loving the Sweden scenario.

What?

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 9:37 pm

Real Al wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 7:56 pm

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:56 pm

I just have empathy with different people to you. Can you imagine if the tables were turned and this virus mainly affected young people? You think old folk would be in favour of a lockdown for months?

Hey - see you do have empathy. Empathy is being able to put yourself in another person's shoes and you've done that.

Admittedly you've then decided "f*** young people", but little steps, eh?

Eh? I don't think that at all.

Nope, you think "f*ck old people" or at least that's how your posts read. Who knows if you mean it or not but that's your message.

No, I'm saying old people should stay indoors while the rest of us try and get back to normal life when it is sensible to do so.

China add another 1000-odd to their death toll, but does anybody believe them? Feels like something done to placate the rest of the world.

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 9:07 am No, I'm saying old people should stay indoors while the rest of us try and get back to normal life when it is sensible to do so.

And that's probably what will happen, or something like it, when the time is right (which isn't now) and there is a plan in place (Mick M already described this better than I can).

But you do have a history of belittling the old and vulnerable and just a few posts back you suggest that the old wouldn't be happy to be in lockdown if the virus mainly targeted the young. My personal view is that I think most old people would readily accept lockdown in this circumstance but more to the point is why you'd think this.

The old are mainly selfish and right wing. I have seen plenty of them out and about when they are the ones mainly at risk.

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 9:33 am The old are mainly selfish and right wing. I have seen plenty of them out and about when they are the ones mainly at risk.

Is that a generalisation based on your prejudiced view of the elderly, or do you have evidence for such a disgusting opinion?

Seeing ‘plenty of them out’ hardly constitutes a fact.