Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Posted: **Tue May 30, 2023 3:16 pm**

The Mindsweep wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 3:10 pm
spen666 wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 3:07 pm
ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 3:02 pm ....
You have to look a bit further to even try to find the truth, and trust me, it won't be from BBC, The Sun, Daily Mail, etc etc
The truth will most certainly not come from anything that you in your conspiracy theorist deluded little world post.

i'm only disappointed you haven't blamed the Covid vaccines for this war
To be fair, it wouldn't have started if Trump hadn't had his victory stolen from him

Thats Red 1881

Posted: **Tue May 30, 2023 3:23 pm**

Hasnt Moscow just had a drone attack? Is this not a counter offensive? Was Ukraine supposed to publicise the exact date and time of their offensive?

Posted: **Tue May 30, 2023 3:28 pm**

spen666 wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 3:07 pm
ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 3:02 pm ....
You have to look a bit further to even try to find the truth, and trust me, it won't be from BBC, The Sun, Daily Mail, etc etc
The truth will most certainly not come from anything that you in your conspiracy theorist deluded little world post.

i'm only disappointed you haven't blamed the Covid vaccines for this war

Don't talk to me about deluded. Aren't you the fella that came on here and told us you drove 300+ miles in 3 hours?
That's deluded !!!!!

Posted: **Tue May 30, 2023 3:31 pm**

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 3:28 pm
spen666 wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 3:07 pm
ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 3:02 pm ....
You have to look a bit further to even try to find the truth, and trust me, it won't be from BBC, The Sun, Daily Mail, etc etc
The truth will most certainly not come from anything that you in your conspiracy theorist deluded little world post.

i'm only disappointed you haven't blamed the Covid vaccines for this war
Don't talk to me about deluded. Aren't you the fella that came on here and told us you drove 300+ miles in 3 hours?
That's deluded !!!!!

Not if you break the speed limit the whole way !

Posted: **Tue May 30, 2023 3:38 pm**

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 1:01 pm Billions of dollars/Pounds down the drain, supporting a country that could never in a million years have won this war.

What's your alternative, just do nothing and just watch as Russia walks all over Ukraine?

Posted: **Tue May 30, 2023 3:40 pm**

Chelmsford Swimmer wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 3:38 pm
ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 1:01 pm Billions of dollars/Pounds down the drain, supporting a country that could never in a million years have won this war.
What's your alternative, just do nothing and just watch as Russia walks all over Ukraine?

No, talk peace. Every dispute sooner or later ends with talks. For a change make it sooner

Posted: **Tue May 30, 2023 3:47 pm**

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 3:40 pm
Chelmsford Swimmer wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 3:38 pm
ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 1:01 pm Billions of dollars/Pounds down the drain, supporting a country that could never in a million years have won this war.
What's your alternative, just do nothing and just watch as Russia walks all over Ukraine?
No, talk peace. Every dispute sooner or later ends with talks. For a change make it sooner

I agree. If Putin gets completely out of Ukraine, that's outside of the borders the UN recognise, then talk peace by all means.

Posted: **Tue May 30, 2023 3:58 pm**

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 3:40 pm
Chelmsford Swimmer wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 3:38 pm
ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 1:01 pm Billions of dollars/Pounds down the drain, supporting a country that could never in a million years have won this war.
What's your alternative, just do nothing and just watch as Russia walks all over Ukraine?
No, talk peace. Every dispute sooner or later ends with talks. For a change make it sooner

Tell me the last war where two countries just had a chat and the invading country just left peacefully. Agreed peace talks could end it with Ukraine conceding land and Russia achieving their aim.

Posted: **Tue May 30, 2023 4:08 pm**

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 3:40 pm
Chelmsford Swimmer wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 3:38 pm
ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 1:01 pm Billions of dollars/Pounds down the drain, supporting a country that could never in a million years have won this war.
What's your alternative, just do nothing and just watch as Russia walks all over Ukraine?
No, talk peace. Every dispute sooner or later ends with talks. For a change make it sooner

Why didnt Vladimir Vladimorovich not do this pre February 2023 or indeed 2014 ?

Posted: **Tue May 30, 2023 4:14 pm**

Chelmsford Swimmer wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 3:58 pm
ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 3:40 pm
Chelmsford Swimmer wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 3:38 pm

What's your alternative, just do nothing and just watch as Russia walks all over Ukraine?
No, talk peace. Every dispute sooner or later ends with talks. For a change make it sooner
Tell me the last war where two countries just has a chat and the invading country just left peacefully. Agreed peace talks could end it with Ukraine conceding land and Russia achieving their aim.

Ukraine WILL have to concede land, no doubt. I feel sorry for them, because they allowed themselves to become a proxy/puppet of the USA, and america is fighting a proxy war with Russia, and Ukraine is the proxy.
By coming closer and closer to Russia with their weapons, America knew eventually Russia would react....if they didnt, they feared themselves, they would be next conquered country of the American beast.
It seems its OK when America invades countries, like they did with Iraq, and Libya, and possibly Afghanistan, but not OK when their perceived enemies attack.!
Ukraine will have to concede land, or this could go on for 10 years, untill there are no more Ukrainians, left, or they have been totally conquered, and have no land left
Putin is a thug, and a nasty so & so, but he will win in the end.....its how much damage he'll do before Ukraine concede

Posted: **Tue May 30, 2023 4:16 pm**

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 3:28 pm
spen666 wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 3:07 pm
ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 3:02 pm ....
You have to look a bit further to even try to find the truth, and trust me, it won't be from BBC, The Sun, Daily Mail, etc etc
The truth will most certainly not come from anything that you in your conspiracy theorist deluded little world post.

i'm only disappointed you haven't blamed the Covid vaccines for this war
Don't talk to me about deluded. Aren't you the fella that came on here and told us you drove 300+ miles in 3 hours?
That's deluded !!!!!

Erm, No, I have never made that claim and I have never driven 300 miles in 3 hours.

if however, you have evidence to the contrary..... let me guess, the covid vaccine deleted any such references, or is it the unjustified assault of those evil Ukrainain troops on the peace-loving Russian soldiers who were merely hunting rare butterflies in Ukraine whilst carrying weapons and driving tanks

Whilst you are searching to produce any reputable evidence of your claims re Ukraine war, you could also search for any evidence to support your equally false claim about me driving 300 miles in 3 hours.

Posted: **Tue May 30, 2023 4:27 pm**

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 4:14 pm
Chelmsford Swimmer wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 3:58 pm
ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 3:40 pm

No, talk peace. Every dispute sooner or later ends with talks. For a change make it sooner
Tell me the last war where two countries just has a chat and the invading country just left peacefully. Agreed peace talks could end it with Ukraine conceding land and Russia achieving their aim.
Ukraine WILL have to concede land, no doubt. I feel sorry for them, because they allowed themselves to become a proxy/puppet of the USA, and america is fighting a proxy war with Russia, and Ukraine is the proxy.
By coming closer and closer to Russia with their weapons, America knew eventually Russia would react....if they didnt, they feared themselves, they would be next conquered country of the American beast.
It seems its OK when America invades countries, like they did with Iraq, and Libya, and possibly Afghanistan, but not OK when their perceived enemies attack.!
Ukraine will have to concede land, or this could go on for 10 years, untill there are no more Ukrainians, left, or they have been totally conquered, and have no land left
Putin is a thug, and a nasty so & so, but he will win in the end.....its how much damage he'll do before Ukraine concede

Russia invaded Ukraine in an attempt to destabalise the West. They were WRONG !

The other stuff you wrote is straight out of Lavorovs handbook

Posted: **Tue May 30, 2023 4:35 pm**

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 4:27 pm
ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 4:14 pm
Chelmsford Swimmer wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 3:58 pm

Tell me the last war where two countries just has a chat and the invading country just left peacefully. Agreed peace talks could end it with Ukraine conceding land and Russia achieving their aim.
Ukraine WILL have to concede land, no doubt. I feel sorry for them, because they allowed themselves to become a proxy/puppet of the USA, and america is fighting a proxy war with Russia, and Ukraine is the proxy.
By coming closer and closer to Russia with their weapons, America knew eventually Russia would react....if they didnt, they feared themselves, they would be next conquered country of the American beast.
It seems its OK when America invades countries, like they did with Iraq, and Libya, and possibly Afghanistan, but not OK when their perceived enemies attack.!
Ukraine will have to concede land, or this could go on for 10 years, untill there are no more Ukrainians, left, or they have been totally conquered, and have no land left
Putin is a thug, and a nasty so & so, but he will win in the end.....its how much damage he'll do before Ukraine concede
Russia invaded Ukraine in an attempt to destabalise the West. They were WRONG !

The other stuff you wrote is straight out of Lavorovs handbook

Agree with ''tuffers'' here.

Posted: **Tue May 30, 2023 4:43 pm**

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 4:14 pm It seems its OK when America invades countries, like they did with Iraq, and Libya, and possibly Afghanistan, but not OK when their perceived enemies attack.!

Like most I don't agree every time America invades a country, but unlike Russia in Ukraine, not sure Iraq, Libya, and Afghanistan, were invaded with the intention of gaining territory and expanding their empire. Russia had already occupied the Crimea before the UN started shoring up defences. I can understand the Russians being concerned by the military build up, but suggesting that the UN was intending to invade Russia and that the invasion by Ukraine was justified is laughable. Ukraine had already conceded Crimea and you want them to end the war by conceding some more. Many wars are fought by countries that cant win, because they believe they are fighting for what is right.

Posted: **Tue May 30, 2023 5:33 pm**

Chelmsford Swimmer wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 4:43 pm
ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 4:14 pm It seems its OK when America invades countries, like they did with Iraq, and Libya, and possibly Afghanistan, but not OK when their perceived enemies attack.!
Like most I don't agree every time America invades a country, but unlike Russia in Ukraine, not sure Iraq, Libya, and Afghanistan, were invaded with the intention of gaining territory and expanding their empire. Russia had already occupied the Crimea before the UN started shoring up defences. I can understand the Russians being concerned by the military build up, but suggesting that the UN was intending to invade Russia and that the invasion by Ukraine was justified is laughable. Ukraine had already conceded Crimea and you want them to end the war by conceding some more. Many wars are fought by countries that cant win, because they believe they are fighting for what is right.

I quite like disscussing things with you, because you put reasonable points, unlike Spen and others who just throw insults at me in mocking tones.
As for Crimea, i recently saw a video on you tube, in which an ex USA admiral was giving his view.
After the coup in Ukraine in 2013 in which a pro American regime was put in place, Russia believed, that Ukraine would invite American ships into the Black Sea, far too near Russia, for their liking, so Russia invaded and annexed Crimea, just to stop America using Back Sea ports.
How true that is, i dont know, but it sounds feasible, dont you think?

Posted: **Tue May 30, 2023 5:41 pm**

Do you believe it?

Posted: **Tue May 30, 2023 5:51 pm**

"It seems OK when America invades other countries...like Iraq" quite conveniently overlooks the very considerable anti war movement which existed here at the time and, if anything, seems to have hardened today.

Posted: **Tue May 30, 2023 5:51 pm**

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 5:33 pm
Chelmsford Swimmer wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 4:43 pm
ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 4:14 pm It seems its OK when America invades countries, like they did with Iraq, and Libya, and possibly Afghanistan, but not OK when their perceived enemies attack.!
Like most I don't agree every time America invades a country, but unlike Russia in Ukraine, not sure Iraq, Libya, and Afghanistan, were invaded with the intention of gaining territory and expanding their empire. Russia had already occupied the Crimea before the UN started shoring up defences. I can understand the Russians being concerned by the military build up, but suggesting that the UN was intending to invade Russia and that the invasion by Ukraine was justified is laughable. Ukraine had already conceded Crimea and you want them to end the war by conceding some more. Many wars are fought by countries that cant win, because they believe they are fighting for what is right.
I quite like disscussing things with you, because you put reasonable points, unlike Spen and others who just throw insults at me in mocking tones.
As for Crimea, i recently saw a video on you tube, in which an ex USA admiral was giving his view.
After the coup in Ukraine in 2013 in which a pro American regime was put in place, Russia believed, that Ukraine would invite American ships into the Black Sea, far too near Russia, for their liking, so Russia invaded and annexed Crimea, just to stop America using Back Sea ports.
How true that is, i dont know, but it sounds feasible, dont you think?

"The Coup" to remove a Russian backed president Viktor Yanukovych was done by the Ukranian People nobody else !

Posted: **Tue May 30, 2023 5:54 pm**

Proposition Joe wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 5:51 pm "It seems OK when America invades other countries...like Iraq" quite conveniently overlooks the very considerable anti war movement which existed here at the time and, if anything, seems to have hardened today.

Did we protest Russias invasions of Afghanistan , Chechnya or Georgia ?

Posted: **Tue May 30, 2023 6:06 pm**

Not to my knowledge, although is "we" meant to be the UK public at large? I'm not sure what that has to do with the point I made though.

Posted: **Tue May 30, 2023 6:13 pm**

Was there an Anti war movement here ?

There was a Worldwide protest but the "WE "

Certainly wasnt near a majority here .
I remeber laughing at the Sun front cover of 2 holes covered by 2 tin roofs above the headline
Found " Weapons of Mass destruction " .

The majority here werent against the 2nd
Iraq war at the time

Posted: **Tue May 30, 2023 6:15 pm**

I didn't say it was a majority but a million people went out onto the streets which is pretty unprecedented.

Posted: **Tue May 30, 2023 6:18 pm**

It was
That doesnt mean its

"quite conveniently overlooks the very considerable anti war movement which existed here at the time ".

1 million out of 65 million isnt considerable.
That would be 10 % of the population

p.s 1.2 million 23.03.19 1 million 19.10.2019 700,000 20.102018 marched in london for 2nd eu referendums , so not that unprecedented really .

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of ... ed_Kingdom

Posted: **Tue May 30, 2023 7:19 pm**

Chelmsford Swimmer wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 4:43 pm
ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 4:14 pm It seems its OK when America invades countries, like they did with Iraq, and Libya, and possibly Afghanistan, but not OK when their perceived enemies attack.!
not sure Iraq, Libya, and Afghanistan, were invaded with the intention of gaining territory and expanding their empire.

Posted: **Tue May 30, 2023 7:29 pm**

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 6:18 pm It was
That doesnt mean its

"quite conveniently overlooks the very considerable anti war movement which existed here at the time ".

1 million out of 65 million isnt considerable.
That would be 10 % of the population

p.s 1.2 million 23.03.19 1 million 19.10.2019 700,000 20.102018 marched in london for 2nd eu referendums , so not that unprecedented really .

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of ... ed_Kingdom

'A million people taking to the streets about a single issue isn't 'considerable'' is quite the hill to die on, but go on I guess.

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