Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 8:43 am You are just determined to find something negative to say.

Hardly. It is clear there is something underhanded in this lack of reporting of care home deaths.

That in itself is negative, not questioning the reasons for the lack of clarity.

Unlike you, I don’t trust everything governments say or do.

Care home deaths are published by the ONS weekly. I doubt that changing their whole system so you can know the total daily is as simple as using a calculator.

a bit daunting that 1200 odd patients are going in to hospital with coronavirus
then we see on TV a guard of honer with only one patient coming out
bit worrying to say the least.

What?

Whether it's underhand or just sheer incompetence it's absolutely dreadful that deaths in care homes are not being reported. It is a big task undoubtedly but not impossible by a long way. Other Countries are doing it and the frightening statistic from these other Countries is that approximately half the deaths they are seeing are in care homes. So the numbers we're seeing for the UK may be half of what it truly is.

Given that the front-line NHS doesn't have enough PPE then the situation within care homes can only be worse. Care workers are still turning up for work and providing care for vulnerable people despite the lack of PPE. The sad thing is that they're unknowingly bringing the disease into the homes and passing it on to the vulnerable residents. Once again the scarcity of PPE is causing many unnecessary deaths.

I caught a little of the government briefing yesterday. I watched almost with disbelief as Matt Hancock thanked journalists for bringing the issue of care homes to the attention of the government. I mean, it's not as if the government should be aware of them is it? Sickening disregard for human life.

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 9:17 am Care home deaths are published by the ONS weekly. I doubt that changing their whole system so you can know the total daily is as simple as using a calculator.

If that's the case then why can't the government include these numbers in their briefings?

Include the weekly number? I guess they could,but would it change anything?

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 9:48 am Include the weekly number? I guess they could,but would it change anything?

It would give a truer picture of the overall number of deaths for one and highlight the need to drastically improve support for what has been a neglected/overlooked sector. Hancock's piss poor comments at the briefing yesterday showed just how little care homes have been considered. Not releasing figures on care home deaths helps to hide this fact.

BoniO wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 9:39 am

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 9:17 am Care home deaths are published by the ONS weekly. I doubt that changing their whole system so you can know the total daily is as simple as using a calculator.

If that's the case then why can't the government include these numbers in their briefings?

Just need a calculator. It’s not hard.

Disoriented wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 10:02 am

BoniO wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 9:39 am

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 9:17 am Care home deaths are published by the ONS weekly. I doubt that changing their whole system so you can know the total daily is as simple as using a calculator.

If that's the case then why can't the government include these numbers in their briefings?

Just need a calculator. It’s not hard.

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 10:04 am

Disoriented wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 10:02 am

BoniO wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 9:39 am

If that's the case then why can't the government include these numbers in their briefings?

Just need a calculator. It’s not hard.

Now, now.

If Care Home deaths are recorded weekly, then so be it.

In which case, can you tell me why the Tory Government have only released these figures two and a half WEEKS after the Country had gone into lockdown?
https://www.theguardian.com/society/202 ... ntil-april

As the article states, across the World, other Countries have been able to reset their data collection methodology. Is the UK truly so incompetent that it can't? Assuming that the UK isn't, it begs the question why then hasn't it been done?

At the very least, this smacks of yet more utter incompetence by this inept Tory Government.

BoniO wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 9:39 am

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 9:17 am Care home deaths are published by the ONS weekly. I doubt that changing their whole system so you can know the total daily is as simple as using a calculator.

If that's the case then why can't the government include these numbers in their briefings?

Great point. It's as if they don't want to count you in their figures. It's such a bad way to treat the deceaseds family, friends and health care workers. So many countries figures cannot be trusted. Sad days that people can't trust their Governments.

Last night, I watched a Clown who was giving out about New York updating their death rate as they had added people who had died off things like heart attacks and Covid.

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 9:27 am What?

with the amount going in would expect a few more coming
out the front way it looks like most are out the back door.

A sizeable chunk of the population remain relatively optimistic on when life will return to normal:



I get a sense that we're being warmed up to the idea that this is just not going to happen. This from Professor Neil Ferguson this morning:

"...it’s not going to be going back to normal. We will have to maintain some form of social distancing, a significant level of social distancing, probably indefinitely until we have a vaccine available."

This is proper sh*t, isn't it?

I understand the reasoning but at the same time I feel frustrated and like its a bit ridiculous, especially as other counties relax measures I'm wondering why we are dragging our feet?

People like teachers already have their flip flops on, convinced that they wont have to go back til September. When they should probably be some of the first to return to work.

NuneatonO's wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 10:18 am
As the article states, across the World, other Countries have been able to reset their data collection methodology. Is the UK truly so incompetent that it can't?

Yes.

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:43 am I understand the reasoning but at the same time I feel frustrated and like its a bit ridiculous, especially as other counties relax measures I'm wondering why we are dragging our feet?

People like teachers already have their flip flops on, convinced that they wont have to go back til September. When they should probably be some of the first to return to work.

Why should hey be the first back?

Also, they’re still working.

I reckon the govt do not have an exit strategy, that is why when anyone asks what it is they act like you're asking for all restrictions to be lifted now and not for just a plan.

RedO wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:50 am

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:43 am I understand the reasoning but at the same time I feel frustrated and like its a bit ridiculous, especially as other counties relax measures I'm wondering why we are dragging our feet?

People like teachers already have their flip flops on, convinced that they wont have to go back til September. When they should probably be some of the first to return to work.

Why should hey be the first back?

Also, they’re still working.

So that others can then go back to work. Otherwise people are stuck doing childcare.

Working my arse.

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:52 am

RedO wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:50 am

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:43 am I understand the reasoning but at the same time I feel frustrated and like its a bit ridiculous, especially as other counties relax measures I'm wondering why we are dragging our feet?

People like teachers already have their flip flops on, convinced that they wont have to go back til September. When they should probably be some of the first to return to work.

Why should hey be the first back?

Also, they’re still working.

So that others can then go back to work. Otherwise people are stuck doing childcare.

Working my arse.

Do you earn good money for that?

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:51 am I reckon the govt do not have an exit strategy, that is why when anyone asks what it is they act like you're asking for all restrictions to be lifted now and not for just a plan.

Think that's pretty obvious. I'd rather wait in lockdown until they've announced a clear and workable one though.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52308201

More than 9 in 10 people who have died had an underlying health condition, yet we ALL have to stay under lockdown.

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 12:02 pm https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52308201

More than 9 in 10 people who have died had an underlying health condition, yet we ALL have to stay under lockdown.

And your point is? We all know that lockdown is reducing the load on the NHS - which is keeping the mortality rate down by allowing patients who need it access to ICU.

Secondly, the BBC has just modified this story. I saw it earlier today and whereas the "91% had other underlying health conditions" is unchanged, the earlier report also stated that over 80% of all deaths were still attributed to Coronanvirus as the primary cause of death. Why did they remove that last telling point?

Feels unfair on healthy folk like myself. The longer this goes on, the more painful the recovery will be.