Independent Leyton Orient Forum

RedO wrote: ↑Sun May 31, 2020 12:25 pm

Dohnut wrote: ↑Sun May 31, 2020 12:17 pm

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Sun May 31, 2020 11:57 am Raab on Marr, not even trying to hide that the economy and his parties reputation is higher priority than public health...

“What we really want to avoid is any re-entering of the lockdown,” he told BBC One’s The Andrew Marr Show. “If we had a second spike, in the way you’ve described, it would obviously be bad on public health grounds, but it would be bad for the economy, and I think it would be bad for public confidence.”

The real issue they have is that they realise if the economy is destroyed, the effects on people’s well-being could be catastrophic and very long lasting. Their choice is choosing the least damaging route. There is no good option. No magic bullet. There never has been, just a damage limitation process that the Government have not always got it right.

I have no idea what is right, I look around at other countries who generally appear to be taking a similar softy softly approach. I have no issue with the approach, only the timing.

As for the media. They are arseholes more interested in digging up controversial stories for their own interests, trying to look smart, rather than honest open journalism.

I’d say the real issue is sixty thousand dead people.

That’s 1 in every 1,000 people. Now dead. And it’s still rising.

Shocking and true.

RedO wrote: ↑Sun May 31, 2020 12:25 pm

Dohnut wrote: ↑Sun May 31, 2020 12:17 pm

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Sun May 31, 2020 11:57 am Raab on Marr, not even trying to hide that the economy and his parties reputation is higher priority than public health...

“What we really want to avoid is any re-entering of the lockdown,” he told BBC One’s The Andrew Marr Show. “If we had a second spike, in the way you’ve described, it would obviously be bad on public health grounds, but it would be bad for the economy, and I think it would be bad for public confidence.”

The real issue they have is that they realise if the economy is destroyed, the effects on people’s well-being could be catastrophic and very long lasting. Their choice is choosing the least damaging route. There is no good option. No magic bullet. There never has been, just a damage limitation process that the Government have not always got it right.

I have no idea what is right, I look around at other countries who generally appear to be taking a similar softy softly approach. I have no issue with the approach, only the timing.

As for the media. They are arseholes more interested in digging up controversial stories for their own interests, trying to look smart, rather than honest open journalism.

I’d say the real issue is sixty thousand dead people.

That’s 1 in every 1,000 people. Now dead. And it’s still rising.

The real issue is how to stop the third of a million deaths world wide from continually increasing. The virus is the killer, all Governments can do is try and keep the numbers as low as possible. We all have views on the worlds success in general and the UK in particular. But the virus is the real villain. That is the issue.

Dohnut wrote: ↑Sun May 31, 2020 12:42 pm

RedO wrote: ↑Sun May 31, 2020 12:25 pm

Dohnut wrote: ↑Sun May 31, 2020 12:17 pm

The real issue they have is that they realise if the economy is destroyed, the effects on people’s well-being could be catastrophic and very long lasting. Their choice is choosing the least damaging route. There is no good option. No magic bullet. There never has been, just a damage limitation process that the Government have not always got it right.

I have no idea what is right, I look around at other countries who generally appear to be taking a similar softy softly approach. I have no issue with the approach, only the timing.

As for the media. They are arseholes more interested in digging up controversial stories for their own interests, trying to look smart, rather than honest open journalism.

I’d say the real issue is sixty thousand dead people.

That’s 1 in every 1,000 people. Now dead. And it’s still rising.

The real issue is how to stop the third of a million deaths world wide from continually increasing. The virus is the killer, all Governments can do is try and keep the numbers as low as possible. We all have views on the worlds success in general and the UK in particular. But the virus is the real villain. That is the issue.

Smokescreen for incompetence.

Dohnut wrote: ↑Sun May 31, 2020 12:17 pm

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Sun May 31, 2020 11:57 am Raab on Marr, not even trying to hide that the economy and his parties reputation is higher priority than public health...

“What we really want to avoid is any re-entering of the lockdown,” he told BBC One’s The Andrew Marr Show. “If we had a second spike, in the way you’ve described, it would obviously be bad on public health grounds, but it would be bad for the economy, and I think it would be bad for public confidence.”

The real issue they have is that they realise if the economy is destroyed, the effects on people’s well-being could be catastrophic and very long lasting. Their choice is choosing the least damaging route. There is no good option. No magic bullet. There never has been, just a damage limitation process that the Government have not always got it right.

I have no idea what is right, I look around at other countries who generally appear to be taking a similar softy softly approach. I have no issue with the approach, only the timing.

As for the media. They are arseholes more interested in digging up controversial stories for their own interests, trying to look smart, rather than honest open journalism.

Still just deflecting blame as per usual. What a surprise! This government is among the worst globally, if not the worst, in ranking for ineffectual and incompetent handling of this crisis. Add that to their constant, and blatant, lying and finger-pointing at scientists and you can easily recognise that this government is devoid of ideas and of any moral compass. If you don't agree then reply with the positives from this governments handling of the crisis. Come on, you bemoan the lack of grown up debating on here so here's your opportunity to make your point. Not that I expect you to do so of course...

Dohnut wrote: ↑Sun May 31, 2020 12:17 pm

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Sun May 31, 2020 11:57 am Raab on Marr, not even trying to hide that the economy and his parties reputation is higher priority than public health...

“What we really want to avoid is any re-entering of the lockdown,” he told BBC One’s The Andrew Marr Show. “If we had a second spike, in the way you’ve described, it would obviously be bad on public health grounds, but it would be bad for the economy, and I think it would be bad for public confidence.”

The real issue they have is that they realise if the economy is destroyed, the effects on people’s well-being could be catastrophic and very long lasting. Their choice is choosing the least damaging route. There is no good option. No magic bullet. There never has been, just a damage limitation process that the Government have not always got it right.

I have no idea what is right, I look around at other countries who generally appear to be taking a similar softy softly approach. I have no issue with the approach, only the timing.

As for the media. They are arseholes more interested in digging up controversial stories for their own interests, trying to look smart, rather than honest open journalism.

I'm sure that people's well-being is what is top of their agenda in getting the economy going again...

Public trust in UK government over coronavirus falls sharply
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... ls-sharply

I wonder why that is?

You can just imagine the 1922 Committee's knives being sharpened on the grindstone.

BoniO wrote: ↑Sun May 31, 2020 1:26 pm

Dohnut wrote: ↑Sun May 31, 2020 12:17 pm

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Sun May 31, 2020 11:57 am Raab on Marr, not even trying to hide that the economy and his parties reputation is higher priority than public health...

“What we really want to avoid is any re-entering of the lockdown,” he told BBC One’s The Andrew Marr Show. “If we had a second spike, in the way you’ve described, it would obviously be bad on public health grounds, but it would be bad for the economy, and I think it would be bad for public confidence.”

The real issue they have is that they realise if the economy is destroyed, the effects on people’s well-being could be catastrophic and very long lasting. Their choice is choosing the least damaging route. There is no good option. No magic bullet. There never has been, just a damage limitation process that the Government have not always got it right.

I have no idea what is right, I look around at other countries who generally appear to be taking a similar softy softly approach. I have no issue with the approach, only the timing.

As for the media. They are arseholes more interested in digging up controversial stories for their own interests, trying to look smart, rather than honest open journalism.

Still just deflecting blame as per usual. What a surprise! This government is among the worst globally, if not the worst, in ranking for ineffectual and incompetent handling of this crisis. Add that to their constant, and blatant, lying and finger-pointing at scientists and you can easily recognise that this government is devoid of ideas and of any moral compass. If you don't agree then reply with the positives from this governments handling of the crisis. Come on, you bemoan the lack of grown up debating on here so here's your opportunity to make your point. Not that I expect you to do so of course...

You clearly haven’t been looking across the channel at what’s happening in France.

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 5:29 pm

BoniO wrote: ↑Sun May 31, 2020 1:26 pm

Dohnut wrote: ↑Sun May 31, 2020 12:17 pm

The real issue they have is that they realise if the economy is destroyed, the effects on people’s well-being could be catastrophic and very long lasting. Their choice is choosing the least damaging route. There is no good option. No magic bullet. There never has been, just a damage limitation process that the Government have not always got it right.

I have no idea what is right, I look around at other countries who generally appear to be taking a similar softy softly approach. I have no issue with the approach, only the timing.

As for the media. They are arseholes more interested in digging up controversial stories for their own interests, trying to look smart, rather than honest open journalism.

Still just deflecting blame as per usual. What a surprise! This government is among the worst globally, if not the worst, in ranking for ineffectual and incompetent handling of this crisis. Add that to their constant, and blatant, lying and finger-pointing at scientists and you can easily recognise that this government is devoid of ideas and of any moral compass. If you don't agree then reply with the positives from this governments handling of the crisis. Come on, you bemoan the lack of grown up debating on here so here's your opportunity to make your point. Not that I expect you to do so of course...

You clearly haven’t been looking across the channel at what’s happening in France.

Sorry Dwarfy, but I've been in France for almost 3 months now, so I'm more aware than most Brits about what's happening here. Even so, it doesn't change the fact one iota that Boris & chums have royally fecked up, and continue to do so.

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 5:29 pm You clearly haven’t been looking across the channel at what’s happening in France.

No.....he's been looking across the Channel at the clusterfcuk in the UK instead.

NuneatonO's wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 6:03 pm

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 5:29 pm You clearly haven’t been looking across the channel at what’s happening in France.

No.....he's been looking across the Channel at the clusterfcuk in the UK instead.

Yup. It's not perfect in France for sure but way, way better organised than in the UK. Lockdown has been really well policed over here. Secondly, let's not forget that France has land borders with 8 other Countries whereas the UK is a flaming Island. France's "job" was therefore much, much harder than it should have been for the UK but Boris & Co have managed to "lose" any advantage our Island status gave us. Quite a feat really.

Still, at least we are quarantining visitors now, whilst we let out those who were shielding. Makes complete sense.

BoniO wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 6:49 pm

NuneatonO's wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 6:03 pm

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 5:29 pm You clearly haven’t been looking across the channel at what’s happening in France.

No.....he's been looking across the Channel at the clusterfcuk in the UK instead.

Yup. It's not perfect in France for sure but way, way better organised than in the UK. Lockdown has been really well policed over here. Secondly, let's not forget that France has land borders with 8 other Countries whereas the UK is a flaming Island. France's "job" was therefore much, much harder than it should have been for the UK but Boris & Co have managed to "lose" any advantage our Island status gave us. Quite a feat really.

That’s the one massive advantage we had as an island which could have possibly massively reduced the potential for infection. Why we never locked down our borders like some countries did especially in the eastern bloc I’ll never know. I know you all think I’m a conspiracy theorists, I’m not, but it’s as if the government had to let it happen for some reason or another.

BoniO wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 6:49 pm

NuneatonO's wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 6:03 pm

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 5:29 pm You clearly haven’t been looking across the channel at what’s happening in France.

No.....he's been looking across the Channel at the clusterfcuk in the UK instead.

Yup. It's not perfect in France for sure but way, way better organised than in the UK. Lockdown has been really well policed over here. Secondly, let's not forget that France has land borders with 8 other Countries whereas the UK is a flaming Island. France's "job" was therefore much, much harder than it should have been for the UK but Boris & Co have managed to "lose" any advantage our Island status gave us. Quite a feat really.

Fair points.

Disoriented wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 10:02 pm

BoniO wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 6:49 pm

NuneatonO's wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 6:03 pm
No.....he's been looking across the Channel at the clusterfcuk in the UK instead.

Yup. It's not perfect in France for sure but way, way better organised than in the UK. Lockdown has been really well policed over here. Secondly, let's not forget that France has land borders with 8 other Countries whereas the UK is a flaming Island. France's "job" was therefore much, much harder than it should have been for the UK but Boris & Co have managed to "lose" any advantage our Island status gave us. Quite a feat really.

Fair points.

I agree, being an island had its advantages. But the issue is not those crossing the border but the people on the island, which of course is more dense in many aspects of the word. I seem to remembers the cries of police state and all that opposition when the law tried hard to enforce the guidelines. The police got ripped apart, and numpties like Farage doing anti police state videos. Even Corbyns brother got in on the act.

Basically we are a nation who don’t like being told what to do, have a tendency to rebel against controls then whine when it all goes pear shaped. Our own worst enemy in some cases.

Pretty obvious when you look at all those arseholes ignoring guidelines. I just wish Boris would toughen up, give police stronger laws and lock up those pricks. But he won’t.

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 7:40 pm Still, at least we are quarantining visitors now, whilst we let out those who were shielding. Makes complete sense.

If only we were dear chap.

Lest we forget that the obnoxious'I'm sorry if you feel that way' Priti Patel is not actually bringing in Quarantine for inbound visitors until 8th June!

Better late than never?

Possibly not in this instance. It really is bolting the stable doors literally MONTHS after the virus has bolted......and spread across communities.

This issue is to my mind, up there near the top of utterly abysmal decisions by this pathetic Tory Govt. throughout this entire Pandemic episode.

I cannot understand, for the life of me, why the UK has not controlled it's borders (goodness me, I sound like a Gammon Brexiteer) when most (all?) of the rest of the World acted almost immediately. This blasé approach could not have been purely for repatriation purposes of Brits abroad. Other Countries have repatriated their citizens with much tighter controls.

Can there be any doubt whatsoever, that this failure hasn't contributed towards people bringing numerous instances of infection into our Country; undoubtedly contributing towards us having the second highest death rate on this planet?

I truly, truly despair at such sheer incompetence demonstrated by a British Government.

Whilst your points may be valid NO, we are I do believe the only country counting deaths in care homes, hence why our number is larger than anyone else. You moan and complain sometimes with good justification, but seem to forget that Spain, Italy and France for example do not include those deaths in their numbers, so whilst ours is higher at least it’s more truthful than others claim to be.

Thor wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 6:12 am Whilst your points may be valid NO, we are I do believe the only country counting deaths in care homes, hence why our number is larger than anyone else. You moan and complain sometimes with good justification, but seem to forget that Spain, Italy and France for example do not include those deaths in their numbers, so whilst ours is higher at least it’s more truthful than others claim to be.

Spain and France most certainly do.

Compiled by the International Long Term Care Policy Network (ILTCP) at the London School of Economics

- Spain currently has the highest number of care deaths in Europe, at 16,678, approximately one-third of probable COVID-19 deaths across the country, according to the ILTCP.

- France’s count is close behind with 14,363 deaths as of May 18, 51 percent of the pandemic death toll.

Added to which the UK only began including Care Home Covid-19 deaths from 29th April - five weeks after the UK lockdown (and therefore not including our worst period of infections and deaths).

Hence the reason that the total numbers released by this Tory Govt. are pure lies.

Just how bent are this Tory Government and Dominic Cummings?

Artificial Intelligence firm that worked with Vote Leave wins new coronavirus contract

Deal may allow Faculty, linked to senior Tory figures, to analyse social media data, utility bills and credit ratings:

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... s-contract

FOR HEAVEN SAKE PEOPLE, PLEASE WAKE UP. OUR COUNTRY IS BECOMING A TOTALITARIAN POLICE STATE!

NuneatonO's wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 9:46 am Just how bent are this Tory Government and Dominic Cummings?

Artificial Intelligence firm that worked with Vote Leave wins new coronavirus contract

Deal may allow Faculty, linked to senior Tory figures, to analyse social media data, utility bills and credit ratings:

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... s-contract

FOR HEAVEN SAKE PEOPLE, PLEASE WAKE UP. OUR COUNTRY IS BECOMING A TOTALITARIAN POLICE STATE!

Corruption wins again.

NuneatonO's wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 9:46 am Just how bent are this Tory Government and Dominic Cummings?

Artificial Intelligence firm that worked with Vote Leave wins new coronavirus contract

Deal may allow Faculty, linked to senior Tory figures, to analyse social media data, utility bills and credit ratings:

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... s-contract

FOR HEAVEN SAKE PEOPLE, PLEASE WAKE UP. OUR COUNTRY IS BECOMING A TOTALITARIAN POLICE STATE!

No. It’s not!

NuneatonO's wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 9:46 am Just how bent are this Tory Government and Dominic Cummings?

Artificial Intelligence firm that worked with Vote Leave wins new coronavirus contract

Deal may allow Faculty, linked to senior Tory figures, to analyse social media data, utility bills and credit ratings:

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... s-contract

FOR HEAVEN SAKE PEOPLE, PLEASE WAKE UP. OUR COUNTRY IS BECOMING A TOTALITARIAN POLICE STATE!

I told people on here to wake up and stop being sheep and got slaughtered. Glad you can see it and are not asleep.

That will be when we crash out of Europe without a deal, something the Tories wanted all along. A whole raft of civil and workers rights will go. No wonder they were so desparate to get out from under the European Court.

Mikero

Mikero wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 10:30 pm That will be when we crash out of Europe without a deal, something the Tories wanted all along. A whole raft of civil and workers rights will go. No wonder they were so desparate to get out from under the European Court.

Mikero

Spot on.

Mikero wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 10:30 pm That will be when we crash out of Europe without a deal, something the Tories wanted all along. A whole raft of civil and workers rights will go. No wonder they were so desparate to get out from under the European Court.

Mikero

Agreed. We'll be much closer to the US model where you can be hired & fired with ease. In my US Corporate days my American colleagues could not believe how difficult it was to "get rid" of someone in the UK. No matter how hard I tried to explain that there were laws to protect the worker in the UK they still pushed me to "let people go". Muppets.

BoniO wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:44 am

Mikero wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 10:30 pm That will be when we crash out of Europe without a deal, something the Tories wanted all along. A whole raft of civil and workers rights will go. No wonder they were so desparate to get out from under the European Court.

Mikero

Agreed. We'll be much closer to the US model where you can be hired & fired with ease. In my US Corporate days my American colleagues could not believe how difficult it was to "get rid" of someone in the UK. No matter how hard I tried to explain that there were laws to protect the worker in the UK they still pushed me to "let people go". Muppets.

Tories hate rights.