Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Stowaway wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 6:01 pm

EastDerehamO wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 7:55 am The above exchange is reminding me of the famous Orwellian quote from Animal Farm – “All animals are equal but some are more equal than others”.
I’m with All Lives Matter, none are more equal than others!

I’m still trying to decide whether people like this have genuinely not listened to the countless counter-arguments to this, or have, and still think like this.

Either way you’re not exactly covering yourself with glory here. My stock response is try contacting Jobi MacAnuff on Twitter or via the club, and I’m sure he’ll put you right.

Exactly what is wrong with all lives matter. An inclusive term that does not in anyway detract from the atrocities carried out on the BAME community. Maybe if you did your research you will see atrocities are inflicted on all communities irrespective of colour. I’m against racism of all types, not just that aimed at the black community.

For any thickies/racialist that still don’t get it:

https://www.vox.com/2015/9/4/9258133/white-lives-matter

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 7:19 pm For any thickies/racialist that still don’t get it:

https://www.vox.com/2015/9/4/9258133/white-lives-matter

That shows it is you that just does not get the bigger picture. Sad

You really need to understand what is going on in the wider world. It is absolutely clear the Black community has been subject to unfair, racist behaviour. If you believe they are unique. Think again.

Suggesting all lives matter in no way detracts for the Black Lives Matter movement, it doesn’t. I support fully the actions of those, like Jobi, who kneel and raise their fist. Unlike many, I have researched the fist salute and its symbolism over the years. I have also researched mans atrocities to man. Including white slaves at the hands of non-white masters.

More power to Jobi in his quest to raise awareness. Much needed. But not to the ignoring of others who continue to be the subject of atrocities throughout the world. Not the U.K. or America, but the world. Racism is on the increase. It needs to stop.

What is the point you’re trying to make here?

Click on the link I posted above. It explains the situation perfectly. It’s even in pictures so you can’t fail* to understand it.

*You will.

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 7:34 pm What is the point you’re trying to make here?

Click on the link I posted above. It explains the situation perfectly. It’s even in pictures so you can’t fail* to understand it.

*You will.

You think that link covers what is a complex and worldwide issue? Really. Shallow sound bite for those too fecking lazy to look at what is really going on. Happy to grab a few, lazy headlines without doing the research. Trying to act like the big man whilst understanding feck all. Headline grabber.

Do your research. I hate racism with a passion. But racism, not just against Black people, but all people. You think it’s only Blacks who are subject to racism. Then my friend you really do need to do your homework.

Black people get a raw deal. It needs sorting, totally support that, 100% behind it, no question, absolutely, clear? Current stance, great. About time, more power to people like Jobi, Hamilton and the like. Gets my support. But try widening your horizons. The the comment all lives matter may make a little more sense.

Dohnut wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 7:32 pm

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 7:19 pm For any thickies/racialist that still don’t get it:

https://www.vox.com/2015/9/4/9258133/white-lives-matter

That shows it is you that just does not get the bigger picture. Sad

You really need to understand what is going on in the wider world. It is absolutely clear the Black community has been subject to unfair, racist behaviour. If you believe they are unique. Think again.

Suggesting all lives matter in no way detracts for the Black Lives Matter movement, it doesn’t. I support fully the actions of those, like Jobi, who kneel and raise their fist. Unlike many, I have researched the fist salute and its symbolism over the years. I have also researched mans atrocities to man. Including white slaves at the hands of non-white masters.

More power to Jobi in his quest to raise awareness. Much needed. But not to the ignoring of others who continue to be the subject of atrocities throughout the world. Not the U.K. or America, but the world. Racism is on the increase. It needs to stop.

It is not ignoring others who continue to be the subject of atrocities throughout the world. I can't believe I'm trying this, but...

Is it wrong for Cancer Research UK to do charity fundraising pledges? Would you stand in front of a little old lady with a collection tin and say to people as they put money in 'You know Dementia matters too, right?!' to them?

Gotta think Doh is the worst type of thick. One that thinks they are very intelligent but just digs a deeper thicko hole every time they try to pretend they aren’t.

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 7:55 pm Gotta think Doh is the worst type of thick. One that thinks they are very intelligent but just digs a deeper thicko hole every time they try to pretend they aren’t.

Alternatively I research and learn what is going on in the world. I certainly don’t under-estimate the issues faced by the Black community. Nor am I against the current actions taken by players. Fully support current actions.

But I do understand the real world out there. Racism is not unique to the Black community. If you think think Racism is something Black people only are subjected to, then you are wrong. Very wrong.

Dohnut wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:11 pm

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 7:55 pm Gotta think Doh is the worst type of thick. One that thinks they are very intelligent but just digs a deeper thicko hole every time they try to pretend they aren’t.

Alternatively I research and learn what is going on in the world. I certainly don’t under-estimate the issues faced by the Black community. Nor am I against the current actions taken by players. Fully support current actions.

But I do understand the real world out there. Racism is not unique to the Black community. If you think think Racism is something Black people only are subjected to, then you are wrong. Very wrong.

But neither myself, AW or RH (the three people replying to you on this) have said 'racism is a black only issue'. You just keep repeating it when none of us have said it and then keep saying people don't understand?

Dohnut (ALM) wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:11 pm

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 7:55 pm Gotta think Doh is the worst type of thick. One that thinks they are very intelligent but just digs a deeper thicko hole every time they try to pretend they aren’t.

Alternatively I research and learn what is going on in the world. I certainly don’t under-estimate the issues faced by the Black community. Nor am I against the current actions taken by players. Fully support current actions.

But I do understand the real world out there. Racism is not unique to the Black community. If you think think Racism is something Black people only are subjected to, then you are wrong. Very wrong.

What percentage of the racism are the blacks getting compared to the other races?

Dohnut (ALM) wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:11 pm

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 7:55 pm Gotta think Doh is the worst type of thick. One that thinks they are very intelligent but just digs a deeper thicko hole every time they try to pretend they aren’t.

Alternatively I research and learn what is going on in the world. I certainly don’t under-estimate the issues faced by the Black community. Nor am I against the current actions taken by players. Fully support current actions.

But I do understand the real world out there. Racism is not unique to the Black community. If you think think Racism is something Black people only are subjected to, then you are wrong. Very wrong.

You understand the plight so much you’ve undermined it in every post you’ve made today on the subject.

Stop talking and listen.

Fair play to the ALM movement, that’s what about terry at its absolute finest.

Whatever you do lads, don’t get him going on the poor and fat, especially if they’re hanging around near a food bank.

No way he’ll stick to ALM then.

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:42 pm

Dohnut (ALM) wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:11 pm

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 7:55 pm Gotta think Doh is the worst type of thick. One that thinks they are very intelligent but just digs a deeper thicko hole every time they try to pretend they aren’t.

Alternatively I research and learn what is going on in the world. I certainly don’t under-estimate the issues faced by the Black community. Nor am I against the current actions taken by players. Fully support current actions.

But I do understand the real world out there. Racism is not unique to the Black community. If you think think Racism is something Black people only are subjected to, then you are wrong. Very wrong.

You understand the plight so much you’ve undermined it in every post you’ve made today on the subject.

Stop talking and listen.

On the contrary I understand their plight probably more than you.

Look up the meaning of racism. It’s not Black vs White. The subject is so much broader than that. And it is everywhere.

Absolutely our Black community get a raw deal. Absolutely discrimination exists. Absolutely a stand needs to be taken. But it needs to be done carefully and with due respect.

I know BLM doesn’t mean other lives don’t matter. I know the symbolism of the raised fist, decades old symbol and not created by Black people but others of a suppressed group.

I don’t want accusations of, for example, Black award winners tainted with the comment, he only got that because he is Black. Or he only got that job because he is Black and so on. The token Black as it is sometimes disrespectfully called. We need to work towards a world where people are judged by what they do, what they achieve and not by what colour, race, creed they are.

I would love to see an end to racism. It won’t happen in my lifetime. But my message to those who take sound-bite comments and act all wonderful. Go do the fecking research and understand what racism is and where it exists. Prepare to be shocked.

Hang on.

Where does it happen then?

Are you saying you have witnessed white people being the victims of racism? Or even that you have suffered racism at some point in your life? Is this where you're going with this?

Admin wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 9:13 pm Whatever you do lads, don’t get him going on the poor and fat, especially if they’re hanging around near a food bank.

No way he’ll stick to ALM then.

The difference between you and me is I research these things, I try to understand in a compassionate way. I have an open mind. I try to learn. You. Just mouth off blindly. Sad.

What is the point you’re making, Doh, other than “there are many forms of racism involving many races”?

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 9:16 pm Hang on.

Where does it happen then?

Are you saying you have witnessed white people being the victims of racism? Or even that you have suffered racism at some point in your life? Is this where you're going with this?

In answer to your questions

Yes.
Yes.

But that is not the point.

I’m not in any way trying to diminish the value of BLM. Or maybe taking the knee, or raising the fist. Or the need for action. I totally support this. If you think I’m trying to diminish this issue or trivialise it in any way you are wrong. Racism against our Black community exists, it is wrong, it needs stamping out. It’s disgusting, it’s outrageous, it’s wrong. It’s been going on for years, it needs to stop, I hate it, I despise it. Phew. Even you must have got the message by now.

I understand the term Black Lives Matter doesn’t mean only Black Lives Matter. It is not a statement diminishing others, I know, I understand, I've read the literature.

What I don’t understand is peoples objection to the term all lives matter. If people object to all lives matter then please tell me whose lives don’t matter?

Wally Banter wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 9:19 pm What is the point you’re making, Doh, other than “there are many forms of racism involving many races”?

Just that. Not complex is it.

Many races. Around the world. People are dying. Racism is a global disgrace. Colour is just part of a massive issue.

I’m certainly not trivialising any of it. Far from it.

Completely missing the point, as per.

Why does the fact other forms of racism exist (which no one is denying, even without your in depth research) mean that no one is allowed to highlight the plight of one type of racism? Or that by doing so, you are somehow saying the others don’t matter?

Did you agree with the hashtag #AllBuildingsMatter on the 9/11 anniversary? Why focus on the twin towers eh? All buildings are equal.

ALM just seems like a bit of a retaliation to BLM. I'm white and don't suffer from racism so just don't need the ALM slogan.

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 9:33 pm Completely missing the point, as per.

Why does the fact other forms of racism exist (which no one is denying, even without your in depth research) mean that no one is allowed to highlight the plight of one type of racism? Or that by doing so, you are somehow saying the others don’t matter?

No. How many times do I have to say I agree with the BLM message. How many times do I have to say I agree with the actions being taken. How many times do I have to say all this. Bloody hell. Racism against our Black community is wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong etc. What don’t you get.

What I don’t understand is the objection to the comment all lives matter. Which is what I believe, an inclusive term. If people don’t believe all lives matter then say whose lives don’t matter.

But of course nobody will say.

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 9:38 pm ALM just seems like a bit of a retaliation to BLM. I'm white and don't suffer from racism so just don't need the ALM slogan.

I don’t see it that way. For me the word all is inclusive.

If you read the BLM literature they say that they do not use this term in a way to exclude others.

Different ways of looking at the same message. The term is Black Lives Matter not ONLY Black Lives Matter. That is a key point.