Independent Leyton Orient Forum

AckneyAwks wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 5:56 pm That could well happen, what a shame for everyone involved except probably the agent.

Well Sotiriou will get a decent signing on fee. Hope he doesn’t fritter it away.

I would have liked to see Ruel stay at the club for at least another season, with a one or two year contract and a good rise in his wage packet. It could have been agreed, similar to Bonne that a transfer clause be inserted. Would have given Ruel the chance of first team football for the coming season with the option of a move if the right team came forward and also a reasonable transfer fee for Leyton Orient to receive if the player did leave the club.

Tbf it's Sotiriou's choice and good luck to him in testing the market - hope it works out well for him. I'm happy with the outcome of 2018/19 (no sensible Orient fan would be unhappy) and my only criticism of 2019/20 is that we didn't send him out on loan closer to the start of the season - assuming any other NL clubs wanted him rather than a Hessenthaler type doing us favour later on.

Assuming he does go is there a set framework for deciding the compo fee we're hanging on for?

gshaw wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:01 pm Assuming he does go is there a set framework for deciding the compo fee we're hanging on for?

It all seems quite variable sadly.

gshaw wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:01 pm Assuming he does go is there a set framework for deciding the compo fee we're hanging on for?

No, it goes to tribunal made up of representatives from the LMA, PFA, EFL, and a couple of others, they hear from the potential buyers, the players representative and the club he's leaving. I posted the outcome of the Porter tribunal on here a couple of weeks ago and how those transfer terms were structured but there is no set formula in deciding a fee.

One possibility not being talked about (and I have no information at all) is that Ruel may take the same route as Jason Demetriou and go and play his football in Cyprus. If he did that we would get sweet FA for him.

^ yep, that indeed is a possibility. Take a one year contract for 20/21 and then come back to an English team for nothing in 21/22 (if he wants).

When I heard him speaking at a Corporate Day, he did not sound like the ‘brightest penny in the box’ so just a very unconfident, easily led, kid, certainly not an 18 year old who had to stand up for himself in a battle. Very dependent on advisers and agents sadly.

Oiram wrote: ↑Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:59 pm When I heard him speaking at a Corporate Day, he did not sound like the ‘brightest penny in the box’ so just a very unconfident, easily led, kid, certainly not an 18 year old who had to stand up for himself in a battle. Very dependent on advisers and agents sadly.

''Very dependent on advisers and agents sadly.''
Nowadays, much the same applies for most other young footballers.

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Fri Jul 24, 2020 6:01 am

Oiram wrote: ↑Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:59 pm When I heard him speaking at a Corporate Day, he did not sound like the ‘brightest penny in the box’ so just a very unconfident, easily led, kid, certainly not an 18 year old who had to stand up for himself in a battle. Very dependent on advisers and agents sadly.

''Very dependent on advisers and agents sadly.''
Nowadays, much the same applies for most other young footballers.

I don’t recall players of the past being Rhodes (he must fall) scholars either.

Disoriented wrote: ↑Fri Jul 24, 2020 7:16 am

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Fri Jul 24, 2020 6:01 am

Oiram wrote: ↑Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:59 pm When I heard him speaking at a Corporate Day, he did not sound like the ‘brightest penny in the box’ so just a very unconfident, easily led, kid, certainly not an 18 year old who had to stand up for himself in a battle. Very dependent on advisers and agents sadly.

''Very dependent on advisers and agents sadly.''
Nowadays, much the same applies for most other young footballers.

I don’t recall players of the past being Rhodes (he must fall) scholars either.

Players years ago, e.g for instance the 1966 world cup England players, seemed a lot brighter in their interviews than the modern day players. Many now, some managers included, seem to lack even the very basic English language skills. Nowadays often a struggle to string a stumbling three word sentence together before the Umms and Ahhs intervene, Rooney, Beckham and Gerrard are good examples of that ! Frank Lampard is a good exception and of the older generation players, Trevor Brooking comes across as very eloquent and intelligent.

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Fri Jul 24, 2020 9:01 am

Disoriented wrote: ↑Fri Jul 24, 2020 7:16 am

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Fri Jul 24, 2020 6:01 am

''Very dependent on advisers and agents sadly.''
Nowadays, much the same applies for most other young footballers.

I don’t recall players of the past being Rhodes (he must fall) scholars either.

Players years ago, e.g for instance the 1966 world cup England players, seemed a lot brighter in their interviews than the modern day players. Many now, some managers included, seem to lack even the very basic English language skills. Nowadays often a struggle to string a stumbling three word sentence together before the Umms and Ahhs intervene, Rooney, Beckham and Gerrard are good examples of that ! Frank Lampard is a good exception and of the older generation players, Trevor Brooking comes across as very eloquent and intelligent.

Most kids wouldnt sign with a club untill they were 15 back then,
Allowing proper schooling .

Now kids are signed upto clubs from the age of 8 or 9.


Says more about Football than the education system

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 24, 2020 9:06 am

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Fri Jul 24, 2020 9:01 am

Disoriented wrote: ↑Fri Jul 24, 2020 7:16 am

I don’t recall players of the past being Rhodes (he must fall) scholars either.

Players years ago, e.g for instance the 1966 world cup England players, seemed a lot brighter in their interviews than the modern day players. Many now, some managers included, seem to lack even the very basic English language skills. Nowadays often a struggle to string a stumbling three word sentence together before the Umms and Ahhs intervene, Rooney, Beckham and Gerrard are good examples of that ! Frank Lampard is a good exception and of the older generation players, Trevor Brooking comes across as very eloquent and intelligent.

Most kids wouldnt sign with a club untill they were 15 back then,
Allowing proper schooling .

Now kids are signed upto clubs from the age of 8 or 9.


Says more about Football than the education system

Ok but they still go to school and the earliest age they can leave school nowadays is at 16 years old. I left school at 15 years old but it did not hinder my education, in fact in my case, my serious life skills learning started AFTER I left school. I learnt very little at school other than to fear the teachers who were forever hitting us boys round the ears !

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:06 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 24, 2020 9:06 am

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Fri Jul 24, 2020 9:01 am

Players years ago, e.g for instance the 1966 world cup England players, seemed a lot brighter in their interviews than the modern day players. Many now, some managers included, seem to lack even the very basic English language skills. Nowadays often a struggle to string a stumbling three word sentence together before the Umms and Ahhs intervene, Rooney, Beckham and Gerrard are good examples of that ! Frank Lampard is a good exception and of the older generation players, Trevor Brooking comes across as very eloquent and intelligent.

Most kids wouldnt sign with a club untill they were 15 back then,
Allowing proper schooling .

Now kids are signed upto clubs from the age of 8 or 9.


Says more about Football than the education system

Ok but they still go to school and the earliest age they can leave school nowadays is at 16 years old. I left school at 15 years old but it did not hinder my education, in fact in my case, my serious life skills learning started AFTER I left school. I learnt very little at school other than to fear the teachers who were forever hitting us boys round the ears !

Not how it works sid as far as football is concerned.
If you watched the southampton documentary series a few years back
There schooling is organised by the academies .

Very different to how we were taught.

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Fri Jul 24, 2020 9:01 am

Disoriented wrote: ↑Fri Jul 24, 2020 7:16 am

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Fri Jul 24, 2020 6:01 am

''Very dependent on advisers and agents sadly.''
Nowadays, much the same applies for most other young footballers.

I don’t recall players of the past being Rhodes (he must fall) scholars either.

Players years ago, e.g for instance the 1966 world cup England players, seemed a lot brighter in their interviews than the modern day players. Many now, some managers included, seem to lack even the very basic English language skills. Nowadays often a struggle to string a stumbling three word sentence together before the Umms and Ahhs intervene, Rooney, Beckham and Gerrard are good examples of that ! Frank Lampard is a good exception and of the older generation players, Trevor Brooking comes across as very eloquent and intelligent.

Yes I heard Brooking used to insist on using a fish knife for scampi and chips and wore sock suspenders. Different class.

You could tell that Lampard was privately educated by his argument with Klopp the other night.

Yeah I think Sid is talking about class more than anything. I do think the 'footballers aren't bright' thing is just a myth though. Makes no sense.

PoliticOs wrote: ↑Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:28 pm Yeah I think Sid is talking about class more than anything. I do think the 'footballers aren't bright' thing is just a myth though. Makes no sense.

Nothing at all to do with ''Class'' I thought the ''class system'' was something that was long gone from the lives of most people in UK.
Certainly something that I have rarely encountered. The days of upper middle and lower class people have long gone as is the practice of the upper class having cooks, housemaids, butlers etc. All something that for myself I have only seen in Edwardian type tv series like the Forsyte Saga, Upstairs, Downstairs, Downton Abbey etc.

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Fri Jul 24, 2020 9:01 amPlayers years ago, e.g for instance the 1966 world cup England players, seemed a lot brighter in their interviews than the modern day players. Many now, some managers included, seem to lack even the very basic English language skills. Nowadays often a struggle to string a stumbling three word sentence together before the Umms and Ahhs intervene, Rooney, Beckham and Gerrard are good examples of that ! Frank Lampard is a good exception and of the older generation players, Trevor Brooking comes across as very eloquent and intelligent.

How eloquent do you expect a player to be when he’s just run his arse off for 90 minutes, has to face the same questions over and over and is limited by what he’s actually allowed to say?

Stop with the “fOoTbAlLeRs ArE tHiCk” nonsense

Millennial Snowflake wrote: ↑Fri Jul 24, 2020 3:26 pm

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Fri Jul 24, 2020 9:01 amPlayers years ago, e.g for instance the 1966 world cup England players, seemed a lot brighter in their interviews than the modern day players. Many now, some managers included, seem to lack even the very basic English language skills. Nowadays often a struggle to string a stumbling three word sentence together before the Umms and Ahhs intervene, Rooney, Beckham and Gerrard are good examples of that ! Frank Lampard is a good exception and of the older generation players, Trevor Brooking comes across as very eloquent and intelligent.

How eloquent do you expect a player to be when he’s just run his arse off for 90 minutes, has to face the same questions over and over and is limited by what he’s actually allowed to say?

Stop with the “fOoTbAlLeRs ArE tHiCk” nonsense

Where did I ever write all ''Footballers are thick ''? Also many footballers speak on radio, tv etc when they have been nowhere near a football pitch for hours and even days !

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Fri Jul 24, 2020 9:01 am

Disoriented wrote: ↑Fri Jul 24, 2020 7:16 am

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Fri Jul 24, 2020 6:01 am

''Very dependent on advisers and agents sadly.''
Nowadays, much the same applies for most other young footballers.

I don’t recall players of the past being Rhodes (he must fall) scholars either.

Players years ago, e.g for instance the 1966 world cup England players, seemed a lot brighter in their interviews than the modern day players. Many now, some managers included, seem to lack even the very basic English language skills. Nowadays often a struggle to string a stumbling three word sentence together before the Umms and Ahhs intervene, Rooney, Beckham and Gerrard are good examples of that ! Frank Lampard is a good exception and of the older generation players, Trevor Brooking comes across as very eloquent and intelligent.

The way people speak has changed a great deal in the past 50 odd years as things adjust for the change in times. There's also a great deal of recency bias in your view, coupled with the fact that we hear from players a lot more in the modern era (whether on TV, radio, podcasts, social media) than you did back in your golden era. So given the contrast between then and now it's not really a fair comparison.