Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Ornchurch wrote: ↑Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:07 pm

PoliticOs wrote: ↑Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:04 pm

Ornchurch wrote: ↑Wed Jun 10, 2020 12:59 pm

I don't believe that anyone worries about who owns what shops when shopping. I certainly don't. If I need or want something then I buy it regardless of who is selling it to me.

I don't know why he made those comments. It could be for all 3 of those reasons you posted.
What I am saying is that telling people to do something based purely on colour is racist. Simple as that.

Could also be said that I'm wasting my breath as you have no intention on listening to my opinion either.

I'm asking your opinion throughout so it's probably a poor take that I have no intention on listening. I'm giving you the chance to answer. Agreeing and listening are different.

Do you not favour any sort of places to buy if you can? So if you were looking for fruit and veg in Islington you wouldn't go by John Mackie's place because you want to support an ex O?

Why would black people potentially feel like they need to directly support each other financially via preferential shopping do you think?

Depends on how cheap his fruit and veg was compared to other options.

I've got you now though. BAME people support each other based purely on colour = fine. White people support each other based purely on colour = racist.

PoliticOs wrote: ↑Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:10 pm

Ornchurch wrote: ↑Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:07 pm

PoliticOs wrote: ↑Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:04 pm

I'm asking your opinion throughout so it's probably a poor take that I have no intention on listening. I'm giving you the chance to answer. Agreeing and listening are different.

Do you not favour any sort of places to buy if you can? So if you were looking for fruit and veg in Islington you wouldn't go by John Mackie's place because you want to support an ex O?

Why would black people potentially feel like they need to directly support each other financially via preferential shopping do you think?

Depends on how cheap his fruit and veg was compared to other options.

I've got you now though. BAME people support each other based purely on colour = fine. White people support each other based purely on colour = racist.

But they aren't doing that 'purely on colour'. So that point is irrelevant.

Two questions then;

1) Why would 'BAME people' support each other as preference? What is the motivation?
2) Why would white people support each other as preference? What is the motivation?

Ornchurch wrote: ↑Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:13 pm

PoliticOs wrote: ↑Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:10 pm

Ornchurch wrote: ↑Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:07 pm

Depends on how cheap his fruit and veg was compared to other options.

I've got you now though. BAME people support each other based purely on colour = fine. White people support each other based purely on colour = racist.

But they aren't doing that 'purely on colour'. So that point is irrelevant.

Two questions then;

1) Why would 'BAME people' support each other as preference? What is the motivation?
2) Why would white people support each other as preference? What is the motivation?

I obviously don't know. Educate me. Answer your own questions.

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Wed Jun 10, 2020 12:53 pm

NuneatonO's wrote: ↑Wed Jun 10, 2020 10:46 am

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Wed Jun 10, 2020 10:34 am Will also confess my ignorance of most statues. Not sure if getting rid of them is the right way to go though. It doesn't seem fair to judge people from the past on today's values.

On that logic, if there was a statue of Hitler in Berlin, should it remain there?

He probably believed that he was doing the right thing at the time.

Well the thing is his views weren't acceptable at any time and he was defeated.

PoliticOs wrote: ↑Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:23 pm

Ornchurch wrote: ↑Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:13 pm

PoliticOs wrote: ↑Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:10 pm

But they aren't doing that 'purely on colour'. So that point is irrelevant.

Two questions then;

1) Why would 'BAME people' support each other as preference? What is the motivation?
2) Why would white people support each other as preference? What is the motivation?

I obviously don't know. Educate me. Answer your own questions.

Happy to.

1) The premis of 'BAME people' supporting BAME owned business is because in 2020, there are still significantly more challenges for that group around race than there are for 'non BAME people'. Essentially, they need the support. It is more difficult to be successful, using that measurement alone, for a non-white person than it is a white person so it makes sense to elevate those from this community.

2) White people supporting white businesses because they are white would only be a response to the above. Although white people face many similar challenges that halts prosperity, class being one - it isn't because of their race.

If you are working class and want to support working class people, buying from working class businesses is not classist. If you are a woman and know that women progress slower/less than men do in the workplace, supporting women owned businesses is not sexist.

If you are a man (whom collectively do not have prejudice against them due to their sex in the workplace) choosing to support male only businesses IS sexist. Because you already have the power and privilege.

Ornchurch wrote: ↑Wed Jun 10, 2020 2:06 pm

PoliticOs wrote: ↑Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:23 pm

Ornchurch wrote: ↑Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:13 pm

I obviously don't know. Educate me. Answer your own questions.

Happy to.

1) The premis of 'BAME people' supporting BAME owned business is because in 2020, there are still significantly more challenges for that group around race than there are for 'non BAME people'. Essentially, they need the support. It is more difficult to be successful, using that measurement alone, for a non-white person than it is a white person so it makes sense to elevate those from this community.

2) White people supporting white businesses because they are white would only be a response to the above. Although white people face many similar challenges that halts prosperity, class being one - it isn't because of their race.

If you are working class and want to support working class people, buying from working class businesses is not classist. If you are a woman and know that women progress slower/less than men do in the workplace, supporting women owned businesses is not sexist.

If you are a man (whom collectively do not have prejudice against them due to their sex in the workplace) choosing to support male only businesses IS sexist. Because you already have the power and privilege.

So basically I was right. Prejudice in favour of BAME from BAME is acceptable as support of that community whilst white people supporting the white community are racist as they are only doing it because the BAME community are doing it.

Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: ↑Wed Jun 10, 2020 3:33 pm Given they're the most persecuted people in history I'm going to support business run by Jewish people in future

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:37 pm

Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: ↑Wed Jun 10, 2020 3:33 pm Given they're the most persecuted people in history I'm going to support business run by Jewish people in future

Wheres your proof, or source for that comment please?

Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: ↑Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:55 pm

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:37 pm

Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: ↑Wed Jun 10, 2020 3:33 pm Given they're the most persecuted people in history I'm going to support business run by Jewish people in future

Wheres your proof, or source for that comment please?

A basic grasp of human history

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Wed Jun 10, 2020 5:10 pm

Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: ↑Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:55 pm

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:37 pm

Wheres your proof, or source for that comment please?

A basic grasp of human history

Not good enough I'm afraid. Basically you can't prove such a statement... No one can

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Wed Jun 10, 2020 5:10 pm

Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: ↑Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:55 pm

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:37 pm

Wheres your proof, or source for that comment please?

A basic grasp of human history

Not good enough I'm afraid. Basically you can't prove such a statement... No one can

Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: ↑Wed Jun 10, 2020 5:15 pm

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Wed Jun 10, 2020 5:10 pm

Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: ↑Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:55 pm

A basic grasp of human history

Not good enough I'm afraid. Basically you can't prove such a statement... No one can

Yeah, to be honest, I doubt anyone is surprised you disagree.

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Wed Jun 10, 2020 10:34 am Will also confess my ignorance of most statues. Not sure if getting rid of them is the right way to go though. It doesn't seem fair to judge people from the past on today's values.

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Wed Jun 10, 2020 5:28 pm

Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: ↑Wed Jun 10, 2020 5:15 pm

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Wed Jun 10, 2020 5:10 pm

Not good enough I'm afraid. Basically you can't prove such a statement... No one can

Yeah, to be honest, I doubt anyone is surprised you disagree.

So you can't prove such a wide ranging statement, as you try to squirm out of it.
You are entitled to support who you like, but don't come on here​ with unprovable statements.
I support the BDS movement, which is also my perogative.

Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: ↑Wed Jun 10, 2020 3:33 pm Given they're the most persecuted people in history I'm going to support business run by Jewish people in future

Dunners wrote: ↑Wed Jun 10, 2020 7:52 pm

Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: ↑Wed Jun 10, 2020 3:33 pm Given they're the most persecuted people in history I'm going to support business run by Jewish people in future

Not even close mate. Check out the slavs. It's where the word slave comes from, as it's estimated that they were enslaved in greater numbers and over more time by African rulers than any other slave trade since. They've also been persecuted by fascist and Soviet imperialists in more recent times.

That's the thing with this game. If you go back far enough everyone's ancestors have been f*cked by someone. It's just divisive. But I guess it's easier for people to make political capital from division than unifying people.

PoliticOs wrote: ↑Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:23 pm 2) White people supporting white businesses because they are white would only be a response to the above. Although white people face many similar challenges that halts prosperity, class being one - it isn't because of their race.

Ornchurch wrote: ↑Wed Jun 10, 2020 2:06 pm

PoliticOs wrote: ↑Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:23 pm

Ornchurch wrote: ↑Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:13 pm

I obviously don't know. Educate me. Answer your own questions.

Happy to.

1) The premis of 'BAME people' supporting BAME owned business is because in 2020, there are still significantly more challenges for that group around race than there are for 'non BAME people'. Essentially, they need the support. It is more difficult to be successful, using that measurement alone, for a non-white person than it is a white person so it makes sense to elevate those from this community.

2) White people supporting white businesses because they are white would only be a response to the above. Although white people face many similar challenges that halts prosperity, class being one - it isn't because of their race.

If you are working class and want to support working class people, buying from working class businesses is not classist. If you are a woman and know that women progress slower/less than men do in the workplace, supporting women owned businesses is not sexist.

If you are a man (whom collectively do not have prejudice against them due to their sex in the workplace) choosing to support male only businesses IS sexist. Because you already have the power and privilege.

So basically I was right. Prejudice in favour of BAME from BAME is acceptable as support of that community whilst white people supporting the white community are racist as they are only doing it because the BAME community are doing it.

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Wed Jun 10, 2020 5:10 pm

Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: ↑Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:55 pm

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:37 pm

Wheres your proof, or source for that comment please?

A basic grasp of human history

Not good enough I'm afraid. Basically you can't prove such a statement... No one can

Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: ↑Wed Jun 10, 2020 3:33 pm Given they're the most persecuted people in history I'm going to support business run by Jewish people in future

Millennial Snowflake wrote: ↑Thu Jun 11, 2020 9:22 pm

PoliticOs wrote: ↑Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:23 pm 2) White people supporting white businesses because they are white would only be a response to the above. Although white people face many similar challenges that halts prosperity, class being one - it isn't because of their race.

Many white people would disagree with you on that one. You’re making the mistake of bunching white people together as if they’re one homogeneous group. There’s massive differences between different subcultures of white people, just like there is between black people, Asians and so on.

No demographic has been shafted more over the past couple of decades than the white working class, but they’re absolutely fair game for progressive types because they’re white, obviously.

Thank you for telling everyone on this board how much power and privilege they have though. I’ll forward your message on to the Deliveroo drivers and Sports Direct employees in Barnsley and Hartlepool who I know, sure they’ll really appreciate your kind words.