Independent Leyton Orient Forum

O my gawd wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:59 pm

RedO wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:53 am Absolute scum. I hope all those assaulting the activists are identified and dealt with by the courts.

Disagree, give them medals & throw the protesters in the slammer.
With XR the clue is in the title Rebellion.
They so intent on causing upheaval & being rebellious, the message they are trying to promote gets completely lost.

So, just because reactionaries want to beat up protesters the message is lost. Don't be silly of course it isn't.

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:50 pm Or, maybe there are technological solutions?

no, that's for the Northern Irish Border debate

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:50 pm Or, maybe there are technological solutions?

According to what I've read technology can help us, but at present it will only plug the gaps we create. Until we take a fundamental reform on what we do as a race it will not resolve the wider issues.

what gaps?

See my post from yesterday.

Deforestation, loss of land, fresh water supplies, over population, reliance of fossil fuels and so on.

Thor wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 3:52 pm See my post from yesterday.

Deforestation, loss of land, fresh water supplies, over population, reliance of fossil fuels and so on.

What do you mean by over population?

Thor wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 3:52 pm See my post from yesterday.

Deforestation, loss of land, fresh water supplies, over population, reliance of fossil fuels and so on.

Not suggesting its a single solution, have to do better on it all.

We have passed in all probability the point where this planet can sustain the number of people that walk the earth. We are using up far too many resources to continue to support everyone as at present we dont have infinite amount to continue inpertuity. Unless of course government has found it, but holds it back from the people?

Absolutely PW.

I am a capitalist at heart however, I see that this onwards growth or more and more is actually damaging the very fabric of this planet. No government is prepared to say "right let's sort this out, let's put in place renewable energy everywhere, let's have less reliance on fossil fuels, let's look at what we do with the fudementals and find a new way to take this planet forwards" too many politicians are looking towards the next election that they may face rather than say, let's take a bigger picture, can we all agree that? Then a framework is devised which all parties sign up to to continue the work of the previous one so that sustainability is at the heart of everything that government does. Then we may see radical change.

Thor wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 4:04 pm Absolutely PW.

I am a capitalist at heart however, I see that this onwards growth or more and more is actually damaging the very fabric of this planet. No government is prepared to say "right let's sort this out, let's put in place renewable energy everywhere, let's have less reliance on fossil fuels, let's look at what we do with the fudementals and find a new way to take this planet forwards" too many politicians are looking towards the next election that they may face rather than say, let's take a bigger picture, can we all agree that? Then a framework is devised which all parties sign up to to continue the work of the previous one so that sustainability is at the heart of everything that government does. Then we may see radical change.

Capitalism is the cause of the degredation of the planet which is why it needs to be replaced.

Its certainly not helping, although it's the best system found so far. If you look back I was calling for a new way a long time ago, a new form of politics not centred around what we have now.

Thor wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 3:58 pm We have passed in all probability the point where this planet can sustain the number of people that walk the earth. We are using up far too many resources to continue to support everyone as at present we dont have infinite amount to continue inpertuity. Unless of course government has found it, but holds it back from the people?

https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/

Never liked looking at this.Then again thinking about it today and however much I dislike cars and the like cars are not the problem.Also where the population is rising all the time eventually this trend will reverse.

(typo)

Thor wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 4:04 pm Absolutely PW.

I am a capitalist at heart however, I see that this onwards growth or more and more is actually damaging the very fabric of this planet. No government is prepared to say "right let's sort this out, let's put in place renewable energy everywhere, let's have less reliance on fossil fuels, let's look at what we do with the fudementals and find a new way to take this planet forwards" too many politicians are looking towards the next election that they may face rather than say, let's take a bigger picture, can we all agree that? Then a framework is devised which all parties sign up to to continue the work of the previous one so that sustainability is at the heart of everything that government does. Then we may see radical change.

That’s all well and good, but more importantly, do you think Alabi should start at the weekend?

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 4:19 pm

Thor wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 4:04 pm Absolutely PW.

I am a capitalist at heart however, I see that this onwards growth or more and more is actually damaging the very fabric of this planet. No government is prepared to say "right let's sort this out, let's put in place renewable energy everywhere, let's have less reliance on fossil fuels, let's look at what we do with the fudementals and find a new way to take this planet forwards" too many politicians are looking towards the next election that they may face rather than say, let's take a bigger picture, can we all agree that? Then a framework is devised which all parties sign up to to continue the work of the previous one so that sustainability is at the heart of everything that government does. Then we may see radical change.

Capitalism is the cause of the degredation of the planet which is why it needs to be replaced.

This is the long and short of it.

PedrOAllenO wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 4:45 pm

Thor wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 4:04 pm Absolutely PW.

I am a capitalist at heart however, I see that this onwards growth or more and more is actually damaging the very fabric of this planet. No government is prepared to say "right let's sort this out, let's put in place renewable energy everywhere, let's have less reliance on fossil fuels, let's look at what we do with the fudementals and find a new way to take this planet forwards" too many politicians are looking towards the next election that they may face rather than say, let's take a bigger picture, can we all agree that? Then a framework is devised which all parties sign up to to continue the work of the previous one so that sustainability is at the heart of everything that government does. Then we may see radical change.

That’s all well and good, but more importantly, do you think Alabi should start at the weekend?

No I wouldn't start him, I'd prefer Dennis instead.

Thor wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 4:22 pm Its certainly not helping, although it's the best system found so far. If you look back I was calling for a new way a long time ago, a new form of politics not centred around what we have now.

So the best system found so far is going to destroy the planet. Marvellous. You are just part of the problem because of you love of a system that keeps you wealthy for now. Try thinking out of the little box you are in.

I never said that now did I? Is socialism better? It's been proved to be crap. Is communism better? It's been proved to be crap.

Any system you name has not proved better than capitalism, I'm all for finding a better system and I'm sure plenty of people far cleverer than me have tried and failed.

But, yes capitalism puts demands on an ever increasing nature on all resources etc. Now let's take palm oil for example, it is the most widely used oil and its properties allow it to be the most versatile whilst taking up less land mass than other alternatives. It's in virtually everything we buy, from packaging, to food to soaps and deodorants including biofuel although not in the UK. The trouble is we are using it faster than it can be replenished and by only making it 100% sustainable will it work. Without that it will cause deforeststion which with the loss of land allows more carbon into the atmosphere this adding to the effect of global warming.

According to the WWF orangutans and samaritan elephants are in danger, the UK government has pledged to get our usage to 100% sustainable, the latest figures say we are at 75% but that was in 2016 and until we get joined up as a planet and do this together it is going to remain tough. We are making progress, it just needs a quicker pace.

Are these Samaritan Elephants good listeners ?

I think so, they can also play a tune I'm told on their trumpet.

The Sumatran elephant joins the Sumatran orangutan, the Javan and Sumatran rhinos and the Sumatran tiger on a growing list of species found in Indonesia that are critically endangered,”

There are so many species under threat from mankind it's so fuxking sad.

Beradogs wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:26 pm Sums up why the planet is doomed. People are not even prepared for a train delay never mind asking them to take less flights or eat less meat etc. Humans are scum. Time we were wiped out.

By all means jump to the head of the queue, if the urge is strong enough

Thor wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:43 pm There are so many species under threat from mankind it's so fuxking sad.

And do you believe we can be carbon neutral by 2025? I personally think Extinction rebellion have more chance of an Alabi hat trick on Saturday.

Nope don't think we can, but let's be honest here, whatbisngovernment doing to change things? Or even change things quicker?

For years I've moaned about all the excessive packing we get from the supermarkets. Why? We as consumers have not asked for them, why does the government mandate it that all that plastic is banned, tomorrow forever for example.

As a boy my mum would say pop round the greengrocers and get me a pound of potatoes, carrots and whatever. The old boy would give it to me in a paper bag, which whilst it comes from a tree back then (rather than be recycled paper now) today the supermarkets have killed the green grocer provide only.plastic bags to put your loose veg etc in.

Its madness.

Over population is an interesting one. Does our foreign aid help people to be healthier so they have more children ? Or will it make for healthier children who survive longer so there will be less need to have more ? Populations grew until they they ran out of space or food or both and then took to invaded their neighbors to make up the deficits. In nature populations were self limited by weather events or famine and this continues with crop failures for those trying to live on marginal land. This is exacerbated by wars where the combatents and their backers have no scruples about starving people out. In the western world people are living longer so, while we are fed, space to build is the problem.

Religious leaders of many persuasions will be very resistant to birth-control being used widely as it would, over time, reduce their influence in the world. I saw a figure once that said you would need ten children born into a religion to be sure to have one adult follower. The reports of people being brutalised into following religions come up regularly and you only need to look at the middle east to see what lengths they will go to to maintain their power.

So what to do? China tried to limit the number the number of births by dictat and that did not end very well with many hundreds of thousands of female babies being aborted or allowed to die while the males were allowed to live. This has led to a shortage of women in some age ranges. Conversly in Japan there are large numbers of men who have decided to not marry as would have been the norm a generation ago, this is said to stem from the female liberation in the country where in the past women were supposed to be demure and obediant they are now much more likely to answer back and stand their ground, something the men were never brought up t be able to handle.

A premier of New South Wales some time ago advocated lacing water holes used by aboriginal people with a contraceptive liquid. This was seen as outragious at the time, but who knows if somebody else comes to think of it as a good idea.

Mikero