Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 5:43 pm Why didn’t Ross say that’s Ling was partly to blame for the first on Saturday then? Or in fact why has no manager ever called out Ling post match, or any other manager in the football league also don’t tend to do it, regardless of if they are just ‘stating a fact’ . It’s not the done thing.

Lucky7 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 6:02 pm

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 5:43 pm Why didn’t Ross say that’s Ling was partly to blame for the first on Saturday then? Or in fact why has no manager ever called out Ling post match, or any other manager in the football league also don’t tend to do it, regardless of if they are just ‘stating a fact’ . It’s not the done thing.

Are you familiar with the song Let It Go

Red_Army wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:09 pm

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 3:42 pm Getting all pres biz on ya now but anyone who don’t think a manager calling a player out by name for a mistake in a game has no management experience in any field. Pretty basic that you have your players backs in public, especially young players. Like Ling got his managers backing, for example.

Oh have a word. Listen to it back- he hasn't gone out and slagged him off. He's going through why they lost the game explaining that it was two mistakes and then almost as an aside explains what happens with the two mistakes 'Juddy loses his man' and 'a scruffy header off Marv'. It's hardly like saying 'he can't defend to save his life'. I don't think the latter is the worst thing to ever say anyway, as it's clearly an exaggeration, but there's a difference and either you know that and you're playing silly, or you just don't get that.

PoundhillO wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 10:24 am

eagwgw wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 10:20 am In an absolute sense it is inaccurate, as there have been games where he has defended well, and there has been games where he has offered something going forward.

But still, it sets a rather odd precedent. Like I said before, if someone says Alabi offers nothing up front (a comment said many times on here), is that something that becomes not allowed? In a similar sense he has offered something in some games, but overall his contribution has been hardly anything.

I feel a little for Gilso as it seems that Dickenson didn't apologise and the whole thing seems a little ridiculous.

Why should Dickinson apologise for giving an honest opinion, if Dickinson feels on reflection that it was inaccurate then he can offer an apology.
As for Alabi, dont get me started again please.

Millennial Snowflake wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:08 pm

Red_Army wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:09 pm

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 3:42 pm Getting all pres biz on ya now but anyone who don’t think a manager calling a player out by name for a mistake in a game has no management experience in any field. Pretty basic that you have your players backs in public, especially young players. Like Ling got his managers backing, for example.

Oh have a word. Listen to it back- he hasn't gone out and slagged him off. He's going through why they lost the game explaining that it was two mistakes and then almost as an aside explains what happens with the two mistakes 'Juddy loses his man' and 'a scruffy header off Marv'. It's hardly like saying 'he can't defend to save his life'. I don't think the latter is the worst thing to ever say anyway, as it's clearly an exaggeration, but there's a difference and either you know that and you're playing silly, or you just don't get that.

Absolutely this. Everyone wants to say that Ross has called Judd out in public without applying any context to his words. Wumble is a truly terrible boarder.

Millennial Snowflake wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:08 pm

Red_Army wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:09 pm

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 3:42 pm Getting all pres biz on ya now but anyone who don’t think a manager calling a player out by name for a mistake in a game has no management experience in any field. Pretty basic that you have your players backs in public, especially young players. Like Ling got his managers backing, for example.

Oh have a word. Listen to it back- he hasn't gone out and slagged him off. He's going through why they lost the game explaining that it was two mistakes and then almost as an aside explains what happens with the two mistakes 'Juddy loses his man' and 'a scruffy header off Marv'. It's hardly like saying 'he can't defend to save his life'. I don't think the latter is the worst thing to ever say anyway, as it's clearly an exaggeration, but there's a difference and either you know that and you're playing silly, or you just don't get that.

Absolutely this. Everyone wants to say that Ross has called Judd out in public without applying any context to his words. Wumble is a truly terrible boarder.

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 5:43 pm Why didn’t Ross say that’s Ling was partly to blame for the first on Saturday then? Or in fact why has no manager ever called out Ling post match, or any other manager in the football league also don’t tend to do it, regardless of if they are just ‘stating a fact’ . It’s not the done thing.

O my gawd wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:30 pm

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 5:43 pm Why didn’t Ross say that’s Ling was partly to blame for the first on Saturday then? Or in fact why has no manager ever called out Ling post match, or any other manager in the football league also don’t tend to do it, regardless of if they are just ‘stating a fact’ . It’s not the done thing.

Watch the goals again & give your honest opinion. Ling did fail to stop the cross in for the 1st goal, but a number of players never cleared the ball when they had the chance to.
For the 2nd goal Ollie Palmer, yes Ollie Palmer went past Myles Judd like he was wee Jimmy Johnstone & for the 3rd goal Ekpitata fell asleep and let Palmer in.
It was collective errors that lost the game not the fault of one man

cockhat wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 6:55 pm

Lucky7 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 6:02 pm

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 5:43 pm Why didn’t Ross say that’s Ling was partly to blame for the first on Saturday then? Or in fact why has no manager ever called out Ling post match, or any other manager in the football league also don’t tend to do it, regardless of if they are just ‘stating a fact’ . It’s not the done thing.

Are you familiar with the song Let It Go

Ever heard of “blinded by the light”

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:16 pm

Millennial Snowflake wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:08 pm

Red_Army wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:09 pm

Oh have a word. Listen to it back- he hasn't gone out and slagged him off. He's going through why they lost the game explaining that it was two mistakes and then almost as an aside explains what happens with the two mistakes 'Juddy loses his man' and 'a scruffy header off Marv'. It's hardly like saying 'he can't defend to save his life'. I don't think the latter is the worst thing to ever say anyway, as it's clearly an exaggeration, but there's a difference and either you know that and you're playing silly, or you just don't get that.

Absolutely this. Everyone wants to say that Ross has called Judd out in public without applying any context to his words. Wumble is a truly terrible boarder.

Coming from you, that’s a massive compliment

Millennial Snowflake wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:33 pm

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:16 pm

Millennial Snowflake wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:08 pm

Absolutely this. Everyone wants to say that Ross has called Judd out in public without applying any context to his words. Wumble is a truly terrible boarder.

Coming from you, that’s a massive compliment

I really miss the lame comebacks thread from the old Board...

Let me try a sensible reply then. You're reading way too much into a short interview where the manager is speaking off the cuff, immediately after a match, probably not even having seen footage of the goals back. Someone's confidence isn't going to be destroyed because his manager mentioned his name when talking about individual errors costing the team at present. Judd wasn't the only one at fault for that particular goal but he could have done better and he'll know that.

If Ross had said "Juddy is a f*cking awful player", blamed him solely for the defeat or accused him of not pulling his weight, then yes you'd have a point about denting his confidence, but you're making a massive generalisation about what a manager should and shouldn't say in his post-match interviews (which is a small part of the man-management side that you're going on about, the majority of which will come from Ross's day-to-day interactions with the players). Literally every player makes a mistake that costs his team a goal, doesn't mean he's a bad player.

It's not comparable at all to someone exaggerating about a player's lack of defensive capabilities in very general terms as though it'll never change. Fine if he doesn't rate him of course, but at least explain specifically why, especially as someone with playing experience that the fans won't have. Also not saying he should have to apologise for his views, but the club is right to be defensive of it.

Millennial Snowflake wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:33 pm

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:16 pm

Millennial Snowflake wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:08 pm

Absolutely this. Everyone wants to say that Ross has called Judd out in public without applying any context to his words. Wumble is a truly terrible boarder.

Coming from you, that’s a massive compliment

I really miss the lame comebacks thread from the old Board...

Let me try a sensible reply then. You're reading way too much into a short interview where the manager is speaking off the cuff, immediately after a match, probably not even having seen footage of the goals back. Someone's confidence isn't going to be destroyed because his manager mentioned his name when talking about individual errors costing the team at present. Judd wasn't the only one at fault for that particular goal but he could have done better and he'll know that.

If Ross had said "Juddy is a f*cking awful player", blamed him solely for the defeat or accused him of not pulling his weight, then yes you'd have a point about denting his confidence, but you're making a massive generalisation about what a manager should and shouldn't say in his post-match interviews (which is a small part of the man-management side that you're going on about, the majority of which will come from Ross's day-to-day interactions with the players). Literally every player makes a mistake that costs his team a goal, doesn't mean he's a bad player.

It's not comparable at all to someone exaggerating about a player's lack of defensive capabilities in very general terms as though it'll never change. Fine if he doesn't rate him of course, but at least explain specifically why, especially as someone with playing experience that the fans won't have. Also not saying he should have to apologise for his views, but the club is right to be defensive of it.

dOh Nut wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:34 pm

Millennial Snowflake wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:33 pm

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:16 pm

Coming from you, that’s a massive compliment

I really miss the lame comebacks thread from the old Board...

Let me try a sensible reply then. You're reading way too much into a short interview where the manager is speaking off the cuff, immediately after a match, probably not even having seen footage of the goals back. Someone's confidence isn't going to be destroyed because his manager mentioned his name when talking about individual errors costing the team at present. Judd wasn't the only one at fault for that particular goal but he could have done better and he'll know that.

If Ross had said "Juddy is a f*cking awful player", blamed him solely for the defeat or accused him of not pulling his weight, then yes you'd have a point about denting his confidence, but you're making a massive generalisation about what a manager should and shouldn't say in his post-match interviews (which is a small part of the man-management side that you're going on about, the majority of which will come from Ross's day-to-day interactions with the players). Literally every player makes a mistake that costs his team a goal, doesn't mean he's a bad player.

It's not comparable at all to someone exaggerating about a player's lack of defensive capabilities in very general terms as though it'll never change. Fine if he doesn't rate him of course, but at least explain specifically why, especially as someone with playing experience that the fans won't have. Also not saying he should have to apologise for his views, but the club is right to be defensive of it.

How do you know a managers public comments will not knock a players confidence. All people are different and some may be more sensitive than others, or simply sensitive to criticism when trying to win a place in the team and develop their future. Such generalisation is nonsense. We don’t know all the facts nor the players.

dOh Nut wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:34 pm

Millennial Snowflake wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:33 pm

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:16 pm

Coming from you, that’s a massive compliment

I really miss the lame comebacks thread from the old Board...

Let me try a sensible reply then. You're reading way too much into a short interview where the manager is speaking off the cuff, immediately after a match, probably not even having seen footage of the goals back. Someone's confidence isn't going to be destroyed because his manager mentioned his name when talking about individual errors costing the team at present. Judd wasn't the only one at fault for that particular goal but he could have done better and he'll know that.

If Ross had said "Juddy is a f*cking awful player", blamed him solely for the defeat or accused him of not pulling his weight, then yes you'd have a point about denting his confidence, but you're making a massive generalisation about what a manager should and shouldn't say in his post-match interviews (which is a small part of the man-management side that you're going on about, the majority of which will come from Ross's day-to-day interactions with the players). Literally every player makes a mistake that costs his team a goal, doesn't mean he's a bad player.

It's not comparable at all to someone exaggerating about a player's lack of defensive capabilities in very general terms as though it'll never change. Fine if he doesn't rate him of course, but at least explain specifically why, especially as someone with playing experience that the fans won't have. Also not saying he should have to apologise for his views, but the club is right to be defensive of it.

How do you know a managers public comments will not knock a players confidence. All people are different and some may be more sensitive than others, or simply sensitive to criticism when trying to win a place in the team and develop their future. Such generalisation is nonsense. We don’t know all the facts nor the players.

O my gawd wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:02 pm

dOh Nut wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:34 pm

Millennial Snowflake wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:33 pm

I really miss the lame comebacks thread from the old Board...

Let me try a sensible reply then. You're reading way too much into a short interview where the manager is speaking off the cuff, immediately after a match, probably not even having seen footage of the goals back. Someone's confidence isn't going to be destroyed because his manager mentioned his name when talking about individual errors costing the team at present. Judd wasn't the only one at fault for that particular goal but he could have done better and he'll know that.

If Ross had said "Juddy is a f*cking awful player", blamed him solely for the defeat or accused him of not pulling his weight, then yes you'd have a point about denting his confidence, but you're making a massive generalisation about what a manager should and shouldn't say in his post-match interviews (which is a small part of the man-management side that you're going on about, the majority of which will come from Ross's day-to-day interactions with the players). Literally every player makes a mistake that costs his team a goal, doesn't mean he's a bad player.

It's not comparable at all to someone exaggerating about a player's lack of defensive capabilities in very general terms as though it'll never change. Fine if he doesn't rate him of course, but at least explain specifically why, especially as someone with playing experience that the fans won't have. Also not saying he should have to apologise for his views, but the club is right to be defensive of it.

How do you know a managers public comments will not knock a players confidence. All people are different and some may be more sensitive than others, or simply sensitive to criticism when trying to win a place in the team and develop their future. Such generalisation is nonsense. We don’t know all the facts nor the players.

That is very true. How do we know a players confidence is not knocked if he sees criticism aimed at him by a numpty who's probably never played no better than Sunday league football on a fans message board. We know our Chairman (gawd bless him) is a visitor, how do we know players don't read it.

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 5:43 pm Why didn’t Ross say that’s Ling was partly to blame for the first on Saturday then? Or in fact why has no manager ever called out Ling post match, or any other manager in the football league also don’t tend to do it, regardless of if they are just ‘stating a fact’ . It’s not the done thing.

CreamofSumYungGai wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:32 pm

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 5:43 pm Why didn’t Ross say that’s Ling was partly to blame for the first on Saturday then? Or in fact why has no manager ever called out Ling post match, or any other manager in the football league also don’t tend to do it, regardless of if they are just ‘stating a fact’ . It’s not the done thing.

You are of course right.

I actually think singling Judd out was done deliberately, so as to portray him as inferior to Ling.

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 11:03 pm I think we have established, that Ling jnr, is unfairly favoured by the club because he's son of the DOF ( probably)

I think its pretty certain, that while Travis & Teague own the club, Martin Ling has a job for life, and while Martins here, so has Sam a job for life.

Its creating a bad atmosphere around the club, made worse IMO, by Andy Gilson giving a completely unnecessary apology for something Kevin Dickenson said .
Im sick of the whole thing now, and suggest the club stop wrapping Ling up in cotton wool, and the fans just let this drop

Red_Army wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 3:17 pm I believe that Ling is a superior player to Judd right now and is worthy of his place in the team. I also think that people who have been asked to comment on what they see should be able to do so honestly. I wouldn't agree with the words used, but by no means should anybody be apologising for them. I also believe that Ross handled it well and good on him for sticking up for his player.

The post trying to accuse Ross of double standards because he said in one post-match interview that Judd had made a mistake (which he had) is laughable. He was making a comment on the game and has gone nowhere near laying into Judd, just explaining what had unfolded- it wasn't even an opinion it was a statement of fact.

Ling was not a strange signing at all- he was bought in as the eventual replacement for Jake Caprice, who had been booed out of the club by certain sections. We will be looking for Ling's replacement should such people be successful in their campaign against him soon enough.

dOh Nut wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:38 pm

CreamofSumYungGai wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:32 pm

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 5:43 pm Why didn’t Ross say that’s Ling was partly to blame for the first on Saturday then? Or in fact why has no manager ever called out Ling post match, or any other manager in the football league also don’t tend to do it, regardless of if they are just ‘stating a fact’ . It’s not the done thing.

You are of course right.

I actually think singling Judd out was done deliberately, so as to portray him as inferior to Ling.

This thought has crossed my mind too. I just thought I was being cynical so didn’t post it.

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 11:03 pm I think we have established, that Ling jnr, is unfairly favoured by the club because he's son of the DOF ( probably)

I think its pretty certain, that while Travis & Teague own the club, Martin Ling has a job for life, and while Martins here, so has Sam a job for life.

Its creating a bad atmosphere around the club, made worse IMO, by Andy Gilson giving a completely unnecessary apology for something Kevin Dickenson said .
Im sick of the whole thing now, and suggest the club stop wrapping Ling up in cotton wool, and the fans just let this drop