Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Thor wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 10:11 pm I see the latest poll shows the Brexit Party will win more votes than the Torres and Labour combined.

The people are speaking and the people want OUT.

Yes the people will speak but will they listen in Westminster ?
The so called ''People's Vote'' that around 500 out of the 650 MPs in the House of Commons would love to give to the people of the Uk would be a cooked up and rigged referendum that would most likely only give two choices to vote on.

The two options.
1. Whatever awful deal Mrs May came up with in the end.
2. Remain in the EU.
Two options only with NO third option included for leaving WITHOUT a deal !!

Brief reminder of the Government's propaganda leaflet that was sent to every household in the UK. A leaflet that was completely one sided in its enclosed information as to WHY to vote to remain in the EU. See underneath......
''Why the Government believes that voting to remain in the European Union is the best decision for the UK.
The EU referendum, Thursday, 23rd June 2016.''
Near the end the following important statements.

''A ONCE in a generation decision''

'' The referendum on Thursday, 23rd June is your chance to decide if we should remain in or leave the European Union.''
Then here comes the following important statement !!

''This is your decision. The Government WILL implement what you decide.''
PARDON ? Can I hear that again ?
''This is your decision. The Government WILL implement what you decide.''

Oh, I thought that is what was said, ok, then get on. keep your word and DO IT !!

Clear enough isn't it. Let us NOT hear anymore of this........''They did not know what they voted for''
Really ? Well I knew what I voted for, problem is that what the majority voted for ended up in a result that was NOT what the establishment and the MPs in the westminster bubble wanted to happen. David Cameron, despite pledging to stay on regardless of which way the vote went, immediately had a child like tantrum because he did not get his own way and resigned immediately. Since then, despite voting for and agreeing to honour the Brexit vote, the MPs of all parties have gone back on their words and done everything possible to block the UK ever leaving the EU.
So now we go onto the 2019 European Parliament election, so lets see what political parties the people vote for now !!

That leaflet, and everything said by the remain campaign, was just "Project Fear" and therefore nonsense and not to be trusted - surprised you guys haven't worked that one out yet, to be honest.

StillSpike wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 11:03 pm That leaflet, and everything said by the remain campaign, was just "Project Fear" and therefore nonsense and not to be trusted - surprised you guys haven't worked that one out yet, to be honest.

Well we all know that !!
In the event of a No VOTE, Cameron even hinted at war in Europe !!
Even before we left, as a result of a LEAVE vote, ''Project Fear'' came out with many stories of impending doom including House prices would collapse, unemployment would rise soar, interest rates would go through the roof, food shortages, the stories of doom and disaster were endless. Well we all know nothing of the sort happened, much to the annoyance of many remainers and MPs !!

quite.

Tuffers - the media are trying to asociate Brexit with the right wing. This is a blatant lie. Corbyn has always been anti European, as was Kinnock and Blair. Both changed there stance later when they became part of the establishment.

Still's Carenae wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 11:28 pm Tuffers - the media are trying to asociate Brexit with the right wing. This is a blatant lie. Corbyn has always been anti European, as was Kinnock and Blair. Both changed there stance later when they became part of the establishment.

In the 1975 referendum, many left wing Labour MPs were on the leave side including future leader Michael Foot, Tony Benn and Peter Shore.

You have a seismic change coming in your politics and still people insist on sticking their heads in the sand hoping it wont affect them....There is another poll out saying the BP will pick up an estimated 49 seats in a general election if it were to be held now.... and the BP is just getting going..

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... and-labour

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/11259 ... l-election

The new tide is a coming. Bring it on.

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 4:23 pm

EH16 wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 3:57 pm

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 1:56 pm

Revisit it, but wait longer than 5 years.

Why? Because you say so? There's nothing to say what is a reasonable period. If the voters think it's too soon I'm sure they'd take the opportunity to say so. You've lost this argument. Accept it. Move on.

You decided to be a part of the UK, the UK decided to leave the EU.

Yes. And now, in the light of materially changed circumstances, we'd like to revisit the decision to remain part of the UK. So stop being either idiotic or deliberately obtuse.

Disoriented wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2019 7:28 am The new tide is a coming. Bring it on.

How things change over time. Back in 1975, Labour left-wingers played a leading role in the "No" campaign. Prominent Labour's left winger's on the no campaign included amongst others, Tony Benn, Michael Foot and Peter Shore. Also believe it or not Neil Kinnock was very against membership of the Common Market, although he completely changed his mind once he and his family got very well paid jobs working on the EU gravy train ! Another committed ''leaver'' was the as of then unknown Jeremy Corbyn !! The Labour left wingers hated the Common Market, seeing it as a "capitalist club" that would erode British democracy and destroy jobs.

EH16 wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2019 9:13 am

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 4:23 pm

EH16 wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 3:57 pm

Why? Because you say so? There's nothing to say what is a reasonable period. If the voters think it's too soon I'm sure they'd take the opportunity to say so. You've lost this argument. Accept it. Move on.

You decided to be a part of the UK, the UK decided to leave the EU.

Yes. And now, in the light of materially changed circumstances, we'd like to revisit the decision to remain part of the UK. So stop being either idiotic or deliberately obtuse.

The change is in part because of several of our former leaders want us to have a 2nd referendum. This has given some leavage for a 2nd Scottish vote.

If Scotland decided to leave. There are several obstacles to overcome. Firstly setting up a new currency, new central bank and border control. Then having to wait 2 years before being able to apply for Europe. But one thing I do not understand is that the SNP would rather take rules from Brussels (who are trying to create common tax rates accross the EU) than from Westminster, where they have a much larger say. So overall would have less control than currently.

Still's Carenae wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2019 11:16 am

EH16 wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2019 9:13 am

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 4:23 pm

You decided to be a part of the UK, the UK decided to leave the EU.

Yes. And now, in the light of materially changed circumstances, we'd like to revisit the decision to remain part of the UK. So stop being either idiotic or deliberately obtuse.

The change is in part because of several of our former leaders want us to have a 2nd referendum. This has given some leavage for a 2nd Scottish vote.

If Scotland decided to leave. There are several obstacles to overcome. Firstly setting up a new currency, new central bank and border control. Then having to wait 2 years before being able to apply for Europe. But one thing I do not understand is that the SNP would rather take rules from Brussels (who are trying to create common tax rates accross the EU) than from Westminster, where they have a much larger say. So overall would have less control than currently.

Agree !! Another odd thing about the SNP stance is that they loudly protest about the part in Mrs Mays deal where the Uk fishing grounds would still be open to European fisherman to fish for during the estimated time of around 2 to 3 years transition period of leaving the EU.
So ok, but hold on a minute, So the SNP want Scotland to be an independent Sovereign nation in its own right with sole control over its own fishing grounds, yes great idea.........and then after this wish of leaving the Uk was achieved, then wait to apply to join the EU, then if this does happen, lose all the benefits of being Independant that they had recently gained, have to have adopt the Euro as their currency, lose control so many things and handing control of their fishing grounds back to the EU !!
Strange thinking indeed, all really a case of ''cutting off your nose to spite your face'' !!

Still's Carenae wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 11:28 pm Tuffers - the media are trying to asociate Brexit with the right wing. This is a blatant lie. Corbyn has always been anti European, as was Kinnock and Blair. Both changed there stance later when they became part of the establishment.

Agreed, next they will be saying Galloway is far right as well. I consider myself to be one of the 5 million Labour Leave supporters. To be labelled far right because I want Brexit I find to be very insulting. Accusations like that only helps to drive a wedge even deeper into our country. Our Remainer Parliament will never allow us to leave the EU. That's why I believe a second EU referendum is a complete waste of time. If they have blocked the first leave vote, they'll block the second. What we need is a General Election and drain the swamp. The only thing I'm wondering about is that now the first vote was ignored, what the fallout is going to be.

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2019 1:55 pm

Still's Carenae wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 11:28 pm Tuffers - the media are trying to asociate Brexit with the right wing. This is a blatant lie. Corbyn has always been anti European, as was Kinnock and Blair. Both changed there stance later when they became part of the establishment.

Agreed, next they will be saying Galloway is far right as well. I consider myself to be one of the 5 million Labour Leave supporters. To be labelled far right because I want Brexit I find to be very insulting. Accusations like that only helps to drive a wedge even deeper into our country. Our Remainer Parliament will never allow us to leave the EU. That's why I believe a second EU referendum is a complete waste of time. If they have blocked the first leave vote, they'll block the second. What we need is a General Election and drain the swamp. The only thing I'm wondering about is that now the first vote was ignored, what the fallout is going to be.

A second EU referendum, eg the so called ''People's Vote'' yes the MPs would LOVE to have that, along with Gina Miller and company !!
Well around 500 out of the 650 MPs in the House of Commons would love to give to the people of the Uk a cooked up, bent and rigged referendum that would most likely only give two choices to vote on.

The two options.
1. Whatever dreadful deal Mrs May or Mrs May/Corbyn came up with in the end.
2. Remain in the EU.
Two options only with NO third option included for leaving WITHOUT a deal !!

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2019 3:29 pm

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2019 1:55 pm

Still's Carenae wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 11:28 pm Tuffers - the media are trying to asociate Brexit with the right wing. This is a blatant lie. Corbyn has always been anti European, as was Kinnock and Blair. Both changed there stance later when they became part of the establishment.

Agreed, next they will be saying Galloway is far right as well. I consider myself to be one of the 5 million Labour Leave supporters. To be labelled far right because I want Brexit I find to be very insulting. Accusations like that only helps to drive a wedge even deeper into our country. Our Remainer Parliament will never allow us to leave the EU. That's why I believe a second EU referendum is a complete waste of time. If they have blocked the first leave vote, they'll block the second. What we need is a General Election and drain the swamp. The only thing I'm wondering about is that now the first vote was ignored, what the fallout is going to be.

A second EU referendum, eg the so called ''People's Vote'' yes the MPs would LOVE to have that, along with Gina Miller and company !!
Well around 500 out of the 650 MPs in the House of Commons would love to give to the people of the Uk a cooked up, bent and rigged referendum that would most likely only give two choices to vote on.

The two options.
1. Whatever dreadful deal Mrs May or Mrs May/Corbyn came up with in the end.
2. Remain in the EU.
Two options only with NO third option included for leaving WITHOUT a deal !!

Sounds like a good idea, let's do it

We already voted to leave the EU so surely any vote would have to be

1 accept May's deal (which is crap)
2 leave without a deal

Thor wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 1:04 am We already voted to leave the EU so surely any vote would have to be

1 accept May's deal (which is crap)
2 leave without a deal

Yes of course, agree fully, but the establishment wont agree to that !!
Anyway a sort of ''People's Vote''is coming soon via the European Parliament election, 2019.
Anna Soubry, Chuka Umunna, Heidi Allen and Company ( who are firmly stuck in their ''Westminster bubble'' ) seem to think that their new Party is far more representative of what the UK voters wish for than the establishes status quo, so now will be the time to see what the REAL electorate think.

What do you mean by (randomly capitalised) REAL electorate?

Also genuine LOL at the thought of Scotland 'cutting their nose off to spite their face' while simultaneously espousing that the UK should blindly carry on with the suicidal path it's currently on because 'democracy'.

Labour demanding 2nd ref as part of any deal now. Just sealed their euro election defeat.

Still's Carenae wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2019 11:16 am

EH16 wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2019 9:13 am

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 4:23 pm

You decided to be a part of the UK, the UK decided to leave the EU.

Yes. And now, in the light of materially changed circumstances, we'd like to revisit the decision to remain part of the UK. So stop being either idiotic or deliberately obtuse.

The change is in part because of several of our former leaders want us to have a 2nd referendum. This has given some leavage for a 2nd Scottish vote.

If Scotland decided to leave. There are several obstacles to overcome. Firstly setting up a new currency, new central bank and border control. Then having to wait 2 years before being able to apply for Europe. But one thing I do not understand is that the SNP would rather take rules from Brussels (who are trying to create common tax rates accross the EU) than from Westminster, where they have a much larger say. So overall would have less control than currently.

Oh dear. Let me explain YET AGAIN. First of all this whole debate about 'taking rules' is total rubbish. As I've already said, in this day and age, global economics dictate that there's no such thing as a truly independent state (economy). Those driving the moves to leave the EU know this perfectly well. So it's more about what you choose to be part of and Scotland has expressed, quite distinctly, that it wants to be part of the EU (the majority for this view was MASSIVELY BIGGER than the majority to remain in the UK)


Secondly, I agree (and have said so several times) that the currency issue is the major stumbling block. IF the SNP can come up with a convincing plan to deal with this (and this is a BIG if) the next referendum will be a shoe in for YES (leave(

Finally, the border. We have been told over and over there will be no hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic so, that being the case, I can't see any reason why one would be needed between Scotland and England.

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2019 1:55 pm

Still's Carenae wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 11:28 pm Tuffers - the media are trying to asociate Brexit with the right wing. This is a blatant lie. Corbyn has always been anti European, as was Kinnock and Blair. Both changed there stance later when they became part of the establishment.

Agreed, next they will be saying Galloway is far right as well. I consider myself to be one of the 5 million Labour Leave supporters. To be labelled far right because I want Brexit I find to be very insulting. Accusations like that only helps to drive a wedge even deeper into our country. Our Remainer Parliament will never allow us to leave the EU. That's why I believe a second EU referendum is a complete waste of time. If they have blocked the first leave vote, they'll block the second. What we need is a General Election and drain the swamp. The only thing I'm wondering about is that now the first vote was ignored, what the fallout is going to be.

To be labelled far right because I want Brexit I find to be very insulting. - Maybe so but the left leaning leave campaign has allowed Farage, Johnson, Mogg and such like to dominate the campaign so it's pretty much your (not necessarily you individually) own fault.

The failure of the main parties to do a deal has let Farage in and it'll only get worse.

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 9:25 am The failure of the main parties to do a deal has let Farage in and it'll only get worse.

Rubbish. The Tories gave him the platform in the first place (aided by the so called Liberals) and it's the Tories who've failed to do a deal. I'm not at all defending Corbyn but let's not kid ourselves who's responsible for this mess.

Absolutely EH16 we have possibly the worst PM in history, a person who will not listen to anyone, a person who can not negotiate, a person who is blinded to any other view than her own. To top it all she is part of the elite that don’t want Brexit.

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 11:35 pm

Still's Carenae wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 11:28 pm Tuffers - the media are trying to asociate Brexit with the right wing. This is a blatant lie. Corbyn has always been anti European, as was Kinnock and Blair. Both changed there stance later when they became part of the establishment.

In the 1975 referendum, many left wing Labour MPs were on the leave side including future leader Michael Foot, Tony Benn and Peter Shore.

Some of the best Brexit speeches I've ever heard came from these men. It's from a time when the labour party had a pair of bollocks on it and not stuffed with today's metropolitan arseholes. This was the labour party I used to support to the hilt, WTF happened to it. Step forward Tony Blair.