Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Top of the JES wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 5:12 pm

PoundhillO wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 5:03 pm

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 4:24 pm

I mean this isn't really a question of ambition so much as it is size. There is only so much money we can spend when the limit to our gates is just under 9k. The owners have been consistent in saying they simply can't afford to subsidise the sort of deficits you'd need to compete in the championship. The fact they are seriously looking to build a new ground suggests to me they are pretty ambitious, just they are taking a longer term view.

If Wellens gets to the point where he wants and earns a move to a bigger club, fair enough. That point was probably always going to come.

It was obvious as soon as we were promoted that if our club is in with a chance of being promoted to the Championship that a massive amount of further investment is needed because the owners stated they couldn’t afford to subsidise the sort of deficit needed to compete in the Championship.
I therefore come to the only conclusion possible that if the club seriously want to compete in the Championship they are actively looking for a massive additional investment to make this possible, they clearly can’t manage it without.
If they are not seriously looking at massive additional investment then any supporter can kiss goodbye to any chance ever of our club ever being promoted to the Championship for any sustainable length of time.

All you ever do is insist the club spends more money you flip flop between insisting the board spend more and more on players and then threatening not to but a season ticket if we lose form and things look a bit dicey- earlier this season it was spend more on players as we were going to get relegated and with the same squad we are now 9th - consolidation would be a good achievement this season, we need to build slowly towards the play offs and not overstretch ourselves because we ain't getting a new ground or a massive influx of cash anytime soon.

Top of the JES wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 4:50 pm So I'm reposting this from earlier this season as it is relevant as it disproves the notion that we sign players late - it relates to last summers window. Also the crap that we sign players late to save wages which the same people keep posting.

"So to put this late transfer bullshit to bed:- We Signed:-

1/7 Ethan Gailbraith on expiry of his Man U contract a day earlier.
1/7 Dan Agyei on expiry of his Crewe contract a day earlier.
1/7 Max Sanders on expiry of his Lincoln contract a day earlier.
5/7 Idris El Mizouni on loan from Ipswich Town.
6/7 Sam Howes from Wealdstone.
10/7 Sol Brynn from Middlesboro. This was the earliest date M'boro would allow him to join us.
21/7 Joe Pigott from Ipswich on the same day he had his contract at Portman Road ripped up.
1/8 Ed Turns on loan from Brighton 2 days after returning from Brighton's US pre season tournament.
2/8 Jordan Graham who has been talking with other clubs after his release from Birmingham. Wellen's really wanted him.
14/8 Shaq Forde from Watford after they agreed he could join.
1/9 Brandon Cooper on deadline day after injury to Beckles .

First three signed on the first day they became free agents, could not have signed any sooner.
El Miz Signed because of his excellent relationship with ML - no-one thought we could get him back but Ling got him.
Sam Howes was a bit left field as signings go.
Sol Brynn signed for us the deal had been in the making for a couple of weeks but Boro wanted him for pre season training before letting him come to us.
Joe Pigot had another season at Ipswich and had to negotiate his release and joined us the day he left Ipswich Town.
Ed Turns signed at the earliest opportunity after Brighton agreed he could return, He was in America with BHA three days prior to signing.
Jordan Graham was speaking to other clubs before we got him we had been talking to him for some time before he made his mind up to come to us.
Shaq Forde not sure how long he was in the pipeline but brought in to cover Agyei and Drinan getting injured.
Brandon Cooper signed on deadline day to give us a fourth centre back as cover.

So 9 of our 11 signing made before the season started Forde and Cooper signed before deadline day was done. It's not that they were signed late but to get decent players in a club like ours needs to be patient because we haven't got a budget to spend money on players - apart from Howes (nominal fee) all our signings were out of contract or loans. We have had terrible luck with injuries early on and it has forced our hand with the Forde and Cooper signings.

We don't put off signing players to save a months wages here and there I'm afraid there are some proper mugs on here who will believe anything, Ling commented last close season that one of our signings had delayed putting pen to paper and at least it had saved the club a months wages it was tongue in cheek but those of a limited IQ are unable to separate this from fact. it was a one off and down to the player not the club"

Hoover Attack wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 5:40 pm We don’t need massive additional investment.

Why do people keep saying this?

gshaw wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 5:23 pm

Top of the JES wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 4:50 pm So I'm reposting this from earlier this season as it is relevant as it disproves the notion that we sign players late - it relates to last summers window. Also the crap that we sign players late to save wages which the same people keep posting.

"So to put this late transfer bullshit to bed:-

So are you gonna tell Richie that he's wrong, if so can we watch it as a live stream?

Also one take from your list you're suggesting that's the earliest we could've signed some of those players but in there you have players signed in August which is late in context of the season having already started, hence behind schedule / no pre-season. So question is did we miss others earlier on? That's what Wellens seems to have gripe with in this window.

Hoover Attack wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 4:36 pm We let everyone go out the door. We then f*cked up bringing the striker in.

Multiple times too given two targets were mentioned and one was a few weeks ago

PoundhillO wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 5:46 pm

Hoover Attack wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 5:40 pm We don’t need massive additional investment.

Why do people keep saying this?

If the owners have stated that cannot afford the deficit in the Championship how will waiting patiently make any difference at all.
The only chance we will ever have of sustainable promotion to the Championship is a massive additional investment, with the need of a new stadium or owners that will swallow the loss made in the Championship.Its not rocket science.

PoundhillO wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 5:24 pm

Top of the JES wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 5:12 pm

PoundhillO wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 5:03 pm

It was obvious as soon as we were promoted that if our club is in with a chance of being promoted to the Championship that a massive amount of further investment is needed because the owners stated they couldn’t afford to subsidise the sort of deficit needed to compete in the Championship.
I therefore come to the only conclusion possible that if the club seriously want to compete in the Championship they are actively looking for a massive additional investment to make this possible, they clearly can’t manage it without.
If they are not seriously looking at massive additional investment then any supporter can kiss goodbye to any chance ever of our club ever being promoted to the Championship for any sustainable length of time.

All you ever do is insist the club spends more money you flip flop between insisting the board spend more and more on players and then threatening not to but a season ticket if we lose form and things look a bit dicey- earlier this season it was spend more on players as we were going to get relegated and with the same squad we are now 9th - consolidation would be a good achievement this season, we need to build slowly towards the play offs and not overstretch ourselves because we ain't getting a new ground or a massive influx of cash anytime soon.

I have not flip flopped about spending more money ever.
If the owners have stated that cannot afford the deficit in the Championship how will waiting patiently make any difference at all.
The only chance we will ever have of sustainable promotion to the Championship is a massive additional investment, with the need of a new stadium or owners that will swallow the loss made in the Championship.Its not rocket science.

Hoover Attack wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 5:40 pm We don’t need massive additional investment.

Why do people keep saying this?

Hoover Attack wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 5:39 pm

Top of the JES wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 4:50 pm So I'm reposting this from earlier this season as it is relevant as it disproves the notion that we sign players late - it relates to last summers window. Also the crap that we sign players late to save wages which the same people keep posting.

"So to put this late transfer bullshit to bed:- We Signed:-

1/7 Ethan Gailbraith on expiry of his Man U contract a day earlier.
1/7 Dan Agyei on expiry of his Crewe contract a day earlier.
1/7 Max Sanders on expiry of his Lincoln contract a day earlier.
5/7 Idris El Mizouni on loan from Ipswich Town.
6/7 Sam Howes from Wealdstone.
10/7 Sol Brynn from Middlesboro. This was the earliest date M'boro would allow him to join us.
21/7 Joe Pigott from Ipswich on the same day he had his contract at Portman Road ripped up.
1/8 Ed Turns on loan from Brighton 2 days after returning from Brighton's US pre season tournament.
2/8 Jordan Graham who has been talking with other clubs after his release from Birmingham. Wellen's really wanted him.
14/8 Shaq Forde from Watford after they agreed he could join.
1/9 Brandon Cooper on deadline day after injury to Beckles .

First three signed on the first day they became free agents, could not have signed any sooner.
El Miz Signed because of his excellent relationship with ML - no-one thought we could get him back but Ling got him.
Sam Howes was a bit left field as signings go.
Sol Brynn signed for us the deal had been in the making for a couple of weeks but Boro wanted him for pre season training before letting him come to us.
Joe Pigot had another season at Ipswich and had to negotiate his release and joined us the day he left Ipswich Town.
Ed Turns signed at the earliest opportunity after Brighton agreed he could return, He was in America with BHA three days prior to signing.
Jordan Graham was speaking to other clubs before we got him we had been talking to him for some time before he made his mind up to come to us.
Shaq Forde not sure how long he was in the pipeline but brought in to cover Agyei and Drinan getting injured.
Brandon Cooper signed on deadline day to give us a fourth centre back as cover.

So 9 of our 11 signing made before the season started Forde and Cooper signed before deadline day was done. It's not that they were signed late but to get decent players in a club like ours needs to be patient because we haven't got a budget to spend money on players - apart from Howes (nominal fee) all our signings were out of contract or loans. We have had terrible luck with injuries early on and it has forced our hand with the Forde and Cooper signings.

We don't put off signing players to save a months wages here and there I'm afraid there are some proper mugs on here who will believe anything, Ling commented last close season that one of our signings had delayed putting pen to paper and at least it had saved the club a months wages it was tongue in cheek but those of a limited IQ are unable to separate this from fact. it was a one off and down to the player not the club"

Richie disagrees. See yesterdays interview.

gshaw wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 5:51 pm

PoundhillO wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 5:46 pm

Hoover Attack wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 5:40 pm We don’t need massive additional investment.

Why do people keep saying this?

If the owners have stated that cannot afford the deficit in the Championship how will waiting patiently make any difference at all.
The only chance we will ever have of sustainable promotion to the Championship is a massive additional investment, with the need of a new stadium or owners that will swallow the loss made in the Championship.Its not rocket science.

A few years ago we could've said "attendances need to be better" or "we need more commercial revenue" but both of those avenues are operating pretty much near the top of their potential as things stand.

Nowhere else to go really to get money in, unless we got a mega bid for, say Agyei in the future for 2 million+ but that then has a detrimental effect on the team.

About the only way you could get in a new stadium with bigger capacity quickly and at low cost would be sharing the Olympic Stadium, just as well that's not a viable option as it'd be a horrible place to watch Orient from.

Top of the JES wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 6:08 pm

gshaw wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 5:51 pm

PoundhillO wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 5:46 pm

If the owners have stated that cannot afford the deficit in the Championship how will waiting patiently make any difference at all.
The only chance we will ever have of sustainable promotion to the Championship is a massive additional investment, with the need of a new stadium or owners that will swallow the loss made in the Championship.Its not rocket science.

A few years ago we could've said "attendances need to be better" or "we need more commercial revenue" but both of those avenues are operating pretty much near the top of their potential as things stand.

Nowhere else to go really to get money in, unless we got a mega bid for, say Agyei in the future for 2 million+ but that then has a detrimental effect on the team.

About the only way you could get in a new stadium with bigger capacity quickly and at low cost would be sharing the Olympic Stadium, just as well that's not a viable option as it'd be a horrible place to watch Orient from.

£2 million ain't going to have much impact - Preston averaged 15,000 last season and lost £15million.

PoundhillO wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 6:12 pm

Top of the JES wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 6:08 pm

gshaw wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 5:51 pm

A few years ago we could've said "attendances need to be better" or "we need more commercial revenue" but both of those avenues are operating pretty much near the top of their potential as things stand.

Nowhere else to go really to get money in, unless we got a mega bid for, say Agyei in the future for 2 million+ but that then has a detrimental effect on the team.

About the only way you could get in a new stadium with bigger capacity quickly and at low cost would be sharing the Olympic Stadium, just as well that's not a viable option as it'd be a horrible place to watch Orient from.

£2 million ain't going to have much impact - Preston averaged 15,000 last season and lost £15million.

That just proves that nothing short of massive new investment will result in our club never being a sustainable Championship club, the end.

Top of the JES wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 6:16 pm

PoundhillO wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 6:12 pm

Top of the JES wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 6:08 pm

£2 million ain't going to have much impact - Preston averaged 15,000 last season and lost £15million.

That just proves that nothing short of massive new investment will result in our club never being a sustainable Championship club, the end.

Actually you are right - if we overstretch our finances it will be the end - the end of Leyton Orient. We are already £19million in debt to Eagle, where are you going to bring in these investors from?

Hoover Attack wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 7:12 pm We’re 1 player away from a play off push - a player that was in budget but we failed to sign.

Why are people saying we need massive new investment to make the Championship?

It’s disrespectful to Richie and this group of players.

Top of the JES wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 7:15 pm And the people who bankroll the club.

Cheshunto wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 7:36 pm

Hoover Attack wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 7:12 pm We’re 1 player away from a play off push - a player that was in budget but we failed to sign.

Why are people saying we need massive new investment to make the Championship?

It’s disrespectful to Richie and this group of players.

My guess is that we would need big investment if we ever got into the championship, just to stay there.
We would surely have to upgrade around 6 or 7 of the players at a substantial cost and then pay the whole squad championship level salaries. We would get increased TV money, but would still have a 8,600 capacity stadium which would hinder our possibilities of increasing revenue, unless ticket prices went up significantly.
The club is in a very difficult position and I’m not sure we could afford to stay in the championship if we ever get there.

Hoover Attack wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 8:37 pm

Cheshunto wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 7:36 pm

Hoover Attack wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 7:12 pm We’re 1 player away from a play off push - a player that was in budget but we failed to sign.

Why are people saying we need massive new investment to make the Championship?

It’s disrespectful to Richie and this group of players.

My guess is that we would need big investment if we ever got into the championship, just to stay there.
We would surely have to upgrade around 6 or 7 of the players at a substantial cost and then pay the whole squad championship level salaries. We would get increased TV money, but would still have a 8,600 capacity stadium which would hinder our possibilities of increasing revenue, unless ticket prices went up significantly.
The club is in a very difficult position and I’m not sure we could afford to stay in the championship if we ever get there.

I’ve not once mentioned staying there, that’s an entirely different debate.

Richie has the ability to get us there on our existing budget.

Hoover Attack wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 7:12 pm We’re 1 player away from a play off push - a player that was in budget but we failed to sign.

Why are people saying we need massive new investment to make the Championship?

It’s disrespectful to Richie and this group of players.

Hoover Attack wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 7:12 pm We’re 1 player away from a play off push - a player that was in budget but we failed to sign.

Why are people saying we need massive new investment to make the Championship?

It’s disrespectful to Richie and this group of players.