The trans debate

[Daily Express bot]

Having played pool over many years for fun I’d say that there would be no disadvantage. Some shots require great finesse and technical thought and have been trounced by female opponents many times.

[CEB]

It’s not simply about advantage, it’s also about the fact that women can have spaces that are for women only. If the women refusing to play are doing so on the basis that they don’t want to compete against male people, that’s fine, no?

[Long slender neck]

Isnt that sexist? I think in this case, there are no grounds to refuse to compete.

[CEB]

No, it’s not sexist for women, who have historically been excluded on the basis of sex, and who have challenges unique to being female, to arrange events that are exclusively for female people

[Adz]

Pretty sure there's a small biological advantage for both darts and pool with reach, and strength in pool (full pelt break). Probably makes no difference at a club level, but at an elite level these marginal gains matter.

[Daily Express bot]

Pretty sure there's a small biological advantage for both darts and pool with reach, and strength in pool (full pelt break). Probably makes no difference at a club level, but at an elite level these marginal gains matter.

[Long slender neck]

No, it’s not sexist for women, who have historically been excluded on the basis of sex, and who have challenges unique to being female, to arrange events that are exclusively for female people

What disadvantage do women have playing pool?

[CEB]

I guess you missed the bit where I said that it isn’t actually my position that “advantage” is the key issue.

The existence of advantage in some sporting disciplines makes male demands for participation more egregious, but the more crucial point is that female people have the right to organise without the presence of male people

[Long slender neck]

No real grounds to exclude the trans woman in this case then.

[CEB]

You used to be quite good at this

[Long slender neck]

There are no grounds to exclude the player as they have no advantage of ability.

This is therefore just discriminatory.

[CEB]

Ah, you didn’t read any of my posts. Ah well.

[Long slender neck]

Unfortunately I did, but you're not making much sense.

[CEB]

There are no grounds to exclude the player as they have no advantage of ability.

This is therefore just discriminatory.

Sigh.
This is an argument against the idea of a single sex category. Not an argument for letting in the men who say they want in.

[Long slender neck]

The number of people identifying as transgender in their GP records in the UK has increased between 2000 and 2018, finds a new study.

Researchers looked for diagnostic codes that suggested patients had spoken to their GP about gender dysphoria (a state of stress or unhappiness that one’s gender does not match their sex at birth).

They found that overall, the number of people whose records suggested they were transgender was very low. However, there was nevertheless an increase over the last two decades – rising from about one in 15,000 in 2000, to just over one in 2,500 in 2018.

The number of individuals with a health record of being transgender increased in all age groups.

Rates were highest amongst people aged 16 to 29. In 2018, around one in every 2,200 people aged 16 to 29 were recorded as transgender.

The research found that people who identified as transgender were more likely to live in areas of high deprivation. Rates were approximately two-and-a-half times higher in the most deprived areas than the least deprived areas.

[Dunners]

Judges have ruled that the UK government acted lawfully in blocking Scotland's gender self-ID reforms.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-67659791

[Dunners]

This guy.

[Proposition Joe]

The research found that people who identified as transgender were more likely to live in areas of high deprivation. Rates were approximately two-and-a-half times higher in the most deprived areas than the least deprived areas.

That's really interesting but actually makes a lot of sense.

[CEB]

The research found that people who identified as transgender were more likely to live in areas of high deprivation. Rates were approximately two-and-a-half times higher in the most deprived areas than the least deprived areas.

That's really interesting but actually makes a lot of sense.

What makes sense about it? I’d be interested to see the study (or, at the very least, to see whether what is actually being referenced is the data gathered from the census) but there’s nothing obvious to me that would make it seem likely that deprived areas would have more people identifying as trans.

[CEB]

The reason I mention the census is because of the massive f*** up, predicted in advance by evil TERFs, whereby the questions were incoherent and not easily understandable by people not well versed in the jargon (look at the guy on the thread the other day about woke tampons who didn’t understand that they were aimed at women who believe they’re men, not men who believe they’re women). It was pointed out that the way the questions were framed would make it very hard for people with English as a second language, or who were not great at parsing the language, to accurately answer the questions about gender identity.
Then when the census came in, various idiots proudly celebrated that Tower Hamlets had a higher rate of trans people than Brighton

[Dunners]

The research found that people who identified as transgender were more likely to live in areas of high deprivation. Rates were approximately two-and-a-half times higher in the most deprived areas than the least deprived areas.

That's really interesting but actually makes a lot of sense.

What makes sense about it? I’d be interested to see the study (or, at the very least, to see whether what is actually being referenced is the data gathered from the census) but there’s nothing obvious to me that would make it seem likely that deprived areas would have more people identifying as trans.

Purely speculating here, as I have no idea either, but could it be that people with body dysmorphic disorder (which is defined as a mental disorder) are more likely to live in areas of high depravation? My uninformed reasoning being that people with mental disorders are less likely to earn incomes that afford better areas or that depravation could contribute to mental disorders in some way.

[CEB]

My suspicion is that - in young people - physical geography is almost irrelevant, and that it’s where they spend their time online that carries the most illuminating correlation with a trans identity, and that where geography *is* relevant, it’s in middle class areas where teenagers adopt a non binary identity as part of a social contagion

[CEB]

That's really interesting but actually makes a lot of sense.

What makes sense about it? I’d be interested to see the study (or, at the very least, to see whether what is actually being referenced is the data gathered from the census) but there’s nothing obvious to me that would make it seem likely that deprived areas would have more people identifying as trans.

Purely speculating here, as I have no idea either, but could it be that people with body dysmorphic disorder (which is defined as a mental disorder) are more likely to live in areas of high depravation? My uninformed reasoning being that people with mental disorders are less likely to earn incomes that afford better areas or that depravation could contribute to mental disorders in some way.

The other possibility - again, I’d need to see the study - is that in deprived areas, there may well be less tolerance and acceptance of an effeminate child, or a child that parents are “worried” might be gay, and so they are more likely to take said child to a doctor. And that while five/ten years ago, such a parent would be quickly put right on a few points on which they are unsure, now there are organisations like mermaids and gendered intelligence who have delivered training to GPs who would now be saying “hmmmm, your boy likes Barbie dolls and wants his hair long? You’re right to be concerned, maybe your boy is a girl. We have some pills for that”

[Proposition Joe]

Purely anecdotal (and as I type this I'm aware it sounds a bit Daily Mail so agree it would be v interesting to read the report itself) but from my experience, areas of high deprivation actually have higher rates of people who struggle with their identity or look for belonging within a particular community, whether that's due to a lack of stability at home or their local society in general.

[CEB]

That sounds fair - can I ask you a genuine follow up question that occurs to me, that isn’t a gotcha, but is kind of fundamental to this issue?