Coronavirus

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NuneatonO's
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by NuneatonO's »

As coronavirus deaths continue to mount at a terrifying rate - the government's responsibility for worsening the crisis is becoming clearer every day.

We are reading heartbreaking stories of NHS staff dying in growing numbers because the personal protective equipment (PPE) promised by the government is not reaching them, or is not up to scratch. One brilliant Doctor to have sadly died, works in my Wife's Hospital in Leicester.

In Southend University Hospital in Essex, a nurse was taken into intensive care just days after staff warned about the lack of PPE. Scandalously, medical staff in some hospitals have been threatened with losing their jobs if they speak out about PPE shortages on social media.

The testing chaos is far from being resolved. In March, Johnson told us that 10,000 people a day would be tested for coronavirus. Three weeks later only half that number was being reached. We were still being assured, however, that not only would 10,000 daily tests be carried out, but that the figure would be "ramped" up to 25,000 by mid-April.

Now, we're expected to believe that health secretary Matt Hancock has finally 'got it', and that 100,000 people a day will be tested by the end of the month. Testing manufacturers say they were "blindsided" by his announcement, and that the target is unlikely to be met. False promise or outright lie - what's the difference? There isn't any.

Indeed, after weeks of lies and broken promises, the daily briefings increasingly fail to inspire; or provide any confidence of leadership whatsoever.

Last week even the most pro-Tory papers were slamming the testing fiasco. "Questions without answers" was the headline in the Daily Telegraph, while the Daily Mail wrote about the "shocking testing scandal".

Every day there has been a different excuse from the government - a shortage of swabs, a lack of chemical reagents, not enough processing labs, and so on. But one by one their excuses have been demolished by the facts.

Leading scientific institutions have spoken out about their offers of testing facilities being turned down or ignored. Oxford University Dunn School of Pathology, for example, offered 119 testing machines, but only one was accepted. Anthony Costello, former director of the World Health Organisation (WHO), has spoken about the 44 registered virology labs that could have been used for analysing tests, but were not.

The main reason for the lack of testing, and the criminal shortage of PPE, is about successive Tory governments prioritising profits over health.

Commenting on this, Professor Graham Medley, a senior government adviser said: "You can say it was a mistake or you can say the government didn't want to invest millions of pounds into something that is about preparedness". Exactly.

The Financial Times was just as hard hitting: "A decade of government-enforced austerity had put the NHS under immense strain... By the standards of European counterparts the NHS is badly underfunded, with fewer doctors and nurses, fewer hospital beds, and fewer precious ventilators."

In early March some limited community testing was being carried out. But that was scrapped on 12th March when the government chose to go along with the strategy of 'herd immunity' - letting up to 60% of the population get coronavirus so that some immunity could be acquired, rather than trying to suppress it through a lockdown, as in Wuhan and Italy.

There's no doubt that profit lay behind that decision and dictated which scientific advice the Tories accepted. They wanted to keep the economy going so that their friends in big business could keep their profits flowing. It was only four days later, when modelling from Imperial College London warned that this strategy could overwhelm the NHS, and lead to 250,000 deaths, that they abruptly changed course.

By then other countries like South Korea and Germany were testing thousands of people a day. Britain was 'at the back of the queue', scrambling around in a dog-eat-dog world market in competition for testing equipment, PPE and ventilators.

These international 'mask wars', with supplies for the German police, for example, being 'hijacked' by the US in mid-flight from China, glaringly expose the anarchy of a capitalist system based on profit and cut-throat competition.

The testing scandal in Britain has not only exposed the deadly effects of austerity and an NHS ruled by cost-cutting. The delays in taking decisive action over testing equipment, and the chaotic response and failure to coordinate existing NHS facilities, have also revealed the inefficiency and incompetence of a bureaucratic, top-down health service, in which the rules of the private market increasingly dominate.

The need for democratic control and oversight of a fully funded public NHS by health workers, together with representatives of service users and the wider workers' movement, has been made crystal clear from the corona crisis.

The private facilities currently being paid for with public money should be immediately incorporated into the NHS with no compensation paid to the profiteers. Securing PPE, testing equipment, ventilators, treatments and a vaccine cannot be left to appeals to private business and the capitalist free market.

The pursuit of profit also explains why even the government's friends are turning on it over testing. With scientists saying that a Covid-19 vaccine is 12-18 months away, mass testing, tracing and isolating people who have the virus is the only 'exit strategy' from a general lockdown. Big business is terrified - not about the loss of life from coronavirus, but the loss of profits if lockdown goes on for months.

And they are clearly also worried about the unrest that could develop if the lockdown is prolonged. Not just 'lockdown fatigue', with people fed up of being stuck at home, often in cramped and overcrowded conditions, without an end in sight, but protests over food shortages and poverty, which are now beginning to take place in the south of Italy.

In Italy, big business initially resisted the closure of non-essential industry - endangering the health and safety of millions of workers. Strikes, walkouts and pressure from workers themselves forced the bosses and the government to back down. But now political representatives of the bosses are pushing again for industry to be reopened.

Mark the following words. Here, there will be similar pressure from those who, in defence of their own economic interests, say 'the cure is worse than the disease'. And the government will try to blame a lengthy lockdown and rising death toll on individuals not respecting social distancing, to deflect from the real reason - its incompetence and failed profits-first strategy.

Workers in construction, Royal Mail and other industries have already challenged grasping bosses and management putting profits before health and safety. There must be no 'trade-off' between our health and their wealth. Any attempts to prematurely restart the economy, endangering health and lives, must be resisted - through strike action if necessary.

Sadly, union leaders have for the most part been invisible during this crisis. They should be going onto the offensive demanding everything necessary for workers to withstand a lockdown:

- 100% of normal wages paid directly to workers (including self-employed); not through the bosses.
- Rent and mortgages written off for the duration of the crisis.
- No redundancies. Companies threatening closure to be taken into public ownership under democratic workers' control and management.
- An immediate increase in the minimum wage to at least £12 an hour (£15 in London) - low-paid key workers deserve a decent wage rise.

Nothing will ever be the same again after this crisis. But we know from the 2008-09 world economic recession, the bank bailouts and the vicious austerity that followed, that the capitalists will be looking once again to make us foot the bill. :twisted:
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by BoniO »

Prestige Worldwide wrote: Sat Apr 11, 2020 11:08 am
BoniO wrote: Sat Apr 11, 2020 10:51 am
Prestige Worldwide wrote: Sat Apr 11, 2020 10:33 am The *scientific committees* thought that the British public would not accept a China style lockdown.
Yup - not their call to make - that's what this government was meant to do.
It's not their call but seems like they didn't even advise it. They didn't set the threat level to high til mid march either.

"Interviews and records published so far suggest that the scientific committees that advised Johnson didn’t study, until mid-March, the option of the kind of stringent lockdown adopted early on in China, where the disease arose in December, and then followed by much of Europe and finally by Britain itself. The scientists’ reasoning: Britons, many of them assumed, simply wouldn’t accept such restrictions."
But it was remarked that scientists were looking at what was happening in S. Korea and Singapore and didn't advise that we did the same because of the concern about Britons accepting such restrictions. So it would seem that the scientists recognised the merits of lockdown. Now the government should have been aware of this and made that call much earlier than they did.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Mistadobalina »

I'm a bit nonplussed about how much of a role the 'nudge squad' played in all this. Apparently we've gone further than most with affording behavioural psychology a serious role in health policy, it'd be interesting to know whether the refusal to consider a lockdown was coming from that.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Currywurst and Chips »

NuneatonO's wrote: Sat Apr 11, 2020 11:41 am As coronavirus deaths continue to mount at a terrifying rate - the government's responsibility for worsening the crisis is becoming clearer every day.

We are reading heartbreaking stories of NHS staff dying in growing numbers because the personal protective equipment (PPE) promised by the government is not reaching them, or is not up to scratch. One brilliant Doctor to have sadly died, works in my Wife's Hospital in Leicester.

In Southend University Hospital in Essex, a nurse was taken into intensive care just days after staff warned about the lack of PPE. Scandalously, medical staff in some hospitals have been threatened with losing their jobs if they speak out about PPE shortages on social media.

The testing chaos is far from being resolved. In March, Johnson told us that 10,000 people a day would be tested for coronavirus. Three weeks later only half that number was being reached. We were still being assured, however, that not only would 10,000 daily tests be carried out, but that the figure would be "ramped" up to 25,000 by mid-April.

Now, we're expected to believe that health secretary Matt Hancock has finally 'got it', and that 100,000 people a day will be tested by the end of the month. Testing manufacturers say they were "blindsided" by his announcement, and that the target is unlikely to be met. False promise or outright lie - what's the difference? There isn't any.

Indeed, after weeks of lies and broken promises, the daily briefings increasingly fail to inspire; or provide any confidence of leadership whatsoever.

Last week even the most pro-Tory papers were slamming the testing fiasco. "Questions without answers" was the headline in the Daily Telegraph, while the Daily Mail wrote about the "shocking testing scandal".

Every day there has been a different excuse from the government - a shortage of swabs, a lack of chemical reagents, not enough processing labs, and so on. But one by one their excuses have been demolished by the facts.

Leading scientific institutions have spoken out about their offers of testing facilities being turned down or ignored. Oxford University Dunn School of Pathology, for example, offered 119 testing machines, but only one was accepted. Anthony Costello, former director of the World Health Organisation (WHO), has spoken about the 44 registered virology labs that could have been used for analysing tests, but were not.

The main reason for the lack of testing, and the criminal shortage of PPE, is about successive Tory governments prioritising profits over health.

Commenting on this, Professor Graham Medley, a senior government adviser said: "You can say it was a mistake or you can say the government didn't want to invest millions of pounds into something that is about preparedness". Exactly.

The Financial Times was just as hard hitting: "A decade of government-enforced austerity had put the NHS under immense strain... By the standards of European counterparts the NHS is badly underfunded, with fewer doctors and nurses, fewer hospital beds, and fewer precious ventilators."

In early March some limited community testing was being carried out. But that was scrapped on 12th March when the government chose to go along with the strategy of 'herd immunity' - letting up to 60% of the population get coronavirus so that some immunity could be acquired, rather than trying to suppress it through a lockdown, as in Wuhan and Italy.

There's no doubt that profit lay behind that decision and dictated which scientific advice the Tories accepted. They wanted to keep the economy going so that their friends in big business could keep their profits flowing. It was only four days later, when modelling from Imperial College London warned that this strategy could overwhelm the NHS, and lead to 250,000 deaths, that they abruptly changed course.

By then other countries like South Korea and Germany were testing thousands of people a day. Britain was 'at the back of the queue', scrambling around in a dog-eat-dog world market in competition for testing equipment, PPE and ventilators.

These international 'mask wars', with supplies for the German police, for example, being 'hijacked' by the US in mid-flight from China, glaringly expose the anarchy of a capitalist system based on profit and cut-throat competition.

The testing scandal in Britain has not only exposed the deadly effects of austerity and an NHS ruled by cost-cutting. The delays in taking decisive action over testing equipment, and the chaotic response and failure to coordinate existing NHS facilities, have also revealed the inefficiency and incompetence of a bureaucratic, top-down health service, in which the rules of the private market increasingly dominate.

The need for democratic control and oversight of a fully funded public NHS by health workers, together with representatives of service users and the wider workers' movement, has been made crystal clear from the corona crisis.

The private facilities currently being paid for with public money should be immediately incorporated into the NHS with no compensation paid to the profiteers. Securing PPE, testing equipment, ventilators, treatments and a vaccine cannot be left to appeals to private business and the capitalist free market.

The pursuit of profit also explains why even the government's friends are turning on it over testing. With scientists saying that a Covid-19 vaccine is 12-18 months away, mass testing, tracing and isolating people who have the virus is the only 'exit strategy' from a general lockdown. Big business is terrified - not about the loss of life from coronavirus, but the loss of profits if lockdown goes on for months.

And they are clearly also worried about the unrest that could develop if the lockdown is prolonged. Not just 'lockdown fatigue', with people fed up of being stuck at home, often in cramped and overcrowded conditions, without an end in sight, but protests over food shortages and poverty, which are now beginning to take place in the south of Italy.

In Italy, big business initially resisted the closure of non-essential industry - endangering the health and safety of millions of workers. Strikes, walkouts and pressure from workers themselves forced the bosses and the government to back down. But now political representatives of the bosses are pushing again for industry to be reopened.

Mark the following words. Here, there will be similar pressure from those who, in defence of their own economic interests, say 'the cure is worse than the disease'. And the government will try to blame a lengthy lockdown and rising death toll on individuals not respecting social distancing, to deflect from the real reason - its incompetence and failed profits-first strategy.

Workers in construction, Royal Mail and other industries have already challenged grasping bosses and management putting profits before health and safety. There must be no 'trade-off' between our health and their wealth. Any attempts to prematurely restart the economy, endangering health and lives, must be resisted - through strike action if necessary.

Sadly, union leaders have for the most part been invisible during this crisis. They should be going onto the offensive demanding everything necessary for workers to withstand a lockdown:

- 100% of normal wages paid directly to workers (including self-employed); not through the bosses.
- Rent and mortgages written off for the duration of the crisis.
- No redundancies. Companies threatening closure to be taken into public ownership under democratic workers' control and management.
- An immediate increase in the minimum wage to at least £12 an hour (£15 in London) - low-paid key workers deserve a decent wage rise.

Nothing will ever be the same again after this crisis. But we know from the 2008-09 world economic recession, the bank bailouts and the vicious austerity that followed, that the capitalists will be looking once again to make us foot the bill. :twisted:
Nicely copy and pasted from the Socialist Party's website.

https://www.socialistparty.org.uk/pdf/i ... 1/1081.pdf
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by DonaldRocks »

Great post. If over half the deaths in Ireland are from Nursing Homes and Residential Care Centres, what is the true figure for the UK and many other countries in the world?

No country can fully open up until you have rapid testing with results within 24 hours and then on top of that you need a nationwide Antibody test to see who have had the virus and may be immune.

I suspect you'll hear nothing about a further lockdown until after the so called bank holiday as some people will flip the lid.

Why don't they scrap the bank holidays and have them later in the year?

These are extraordinary times. It demands extraordinary measures(Within limits mind you).
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Real Al »

Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: Sat Apr 11, 2020 12:47 pm
NuneatonO's wrote: Sat Apr 11, 2020 11:41 am As coronavirus deaths continue to mount at a terrifying rate - the government's responsibility for worsening the crisis is becoming clearer every day.

We are reading heartbreaking stories of NHS staff dying in growing numbers because the personal protective equipment (PPE) promised by the government is not reaching them, or is not up to scratch. One brilliant Doctor to have sadly died, works in my Wife's Hospital in Leicester.

In Southend University Hospital in Essex, a nurse was taken into intensive care just days after staff warned about the lack of PPE. Scandalously, medical staff in some hospitals have been threatened with losing their jobs if they speak out about PPE shortages on social media.

The testing chaos is far from being resolved. In March, Johnson told us that 10,000 people a day would be tested for coronavirus. Three weeks later only half that number was being reached. We were still being assured, however, that not only would 10,000 daily tests be carried out, but that the figure would be "ramped" up to 25,000 by mid-April.

Now, we're expected to believe that health secretary Matt Hancock has finally 'got it', and that 100,000 people a day will be tested by the end of the month. Testing manufacturers say they were "blindsided" by his announcement, and that the target is unlikely to be met. False promise or outright lie - what's the difference? There isn't any.

Indeed, after weeks of lies and broken promises, the daily briefings increasingly fail to inspire; or provide any confidence of leadership whatsoever.

Last week even the most pro-Tory papers were slamming the testing fiasco. "Questions without answers" was the headline in the Daily Telegraph, while the Daily Mail wrote about the "shocking testing scandal".

Every day there has been a different excuse from the government - a shortage of swabs, a lack of chemical reagents, not enough processing labs, and so on. But one by one their excuses have been demolished by the facts.

Leading scientific institutions have spoken out about their offers of testing facilities being turned down or ignored. Oxford University Dunn School of Pathology, for example, offered 119 testing machines, but only one was accepted. Anthony Costello, former director of the World Health Organisation (WHO), has spoken about the 44 registered virology labs that could have been used for analysing tests, but were not.

The main reason for the lack of testing, and the criminal shortage of PPE, is about successive Tory governments prioritising profits over health.

Commenting on this, Professor Graham Medley, a senior government adviser said: "You can say it was a mistake or you can say the government didn't want to invest millions of pounds into something that is about preparedness". Exactly.

The Financial Times was just as hard hitting: "A decade of government-enforced austerity had put the NHS under immense strain... By the standards of European counterparts the NHS is badly underfunded, with fewer doctors and nurses, fewer hospital beds, and fewer precious ventilators."

In early March some limited community testing was being carried out. But that was scrapped on 12th March when the government chose to go along with the strategy of 'herd immunity' - letting up to 60% of the population get coronavirus so that some immunity could be acquired, rather than trying to suppress it through a lockdown, as in Wuhan and Italy.

There's no doubt that profit lay behind that decision and dictated which scientific advice the Tories accepted. They wanted to keep the economy going so that their friends in big business could keep their profits flowing. It was only four days later, when modelling from Imperial College London warned that this strategy could overwhelm the NHS, and lead to 250,000 deaths, that they abruptly changed course.

By then other countries like South Korea and Germany were testing thousands of people a day. Britain was 'at the back of the queue', scrambling around in a dog-eat-dog world market in competition for testing equipment, PPE and ventilators.

These international 'mask wars', with supplies for the German police, for example, being 'hijacked' by the US in mid-flight from China, glaringly expose the anarchy of a capitalist system based on profit and cut-throat competition.

The testing scandal in Britain has not only exposed the deadly effects of austerity and an NHS ruled by cost-cutting. The delays in taking decisive action over testing equipment, and the chaotic response and failure to coordinate existing NHS facilities, have also revealed the inefficiency and incompetence of a bureaucratic, top-down health service, in which the rules of the private market increasingly dominate.

The need for democratic control and oversight of a fully funded public NHS by health workers, together with representatives of service users and the wider workers' movement, has been made crystal clear from the corona crisis.

The private facilities currently being paid for with public money should be immediately incorporated into the NHS with no compensation paid to the profiteers. Securing PPE, testing equipment, ventilators, treatments and a vaccine cannot be left to appeals to private business and the capitalist free market.

The pursuit of profit also explains why even the government's friends are turning on it over testing. With scientists saying that a Covid-19 vaccine is 12-18 months away, mass testing, tracing and isolating people who have the virus is the only 'exit strategy' from a general lockdown. Big business is terrified - not about the loss of life from coronavirus, but the loss of profits if lockdown goes on for months.

And they are clearly also worried about the unrest that could develop if the lockdown is prolonged. Not just 'lockdown fatigue', with people fed up of being stuck at home, often in cramped and overcrowded conditions, without an end in sight, but protests over food shortages and poverty, which are now beginning to take place in the south of Italy.

In Italy, big business initially resisted the closure of non-essential industry - endangering the health and safety of millions of workers. Strikes, walkouts and pressure from workers themselves forced the bosses and the government to back down. But now political representatives of the bosses are pushing again for industry to be reopened.

Mark the following words. Here, there will be similar pressure from those who, in defence of their own economic interests, say 'the cure is worse than the disease'. And the government will try to blame a lengthy lockdown and rising death toll on individuals not respecting social distancing, to deflect from the real reason - its incompetence and failed profits-first strategy.

Workers in construction, Royal Mail and other industries have already challenged grasping bosses and management putting profits before health and safety. There must be no 'trade-off' between our health and their wealth. Any attempts to prematurely restart the economy, endangering health and lives, must be resisted - through strike action if necessary.

Sadly, union leaders have for the most part been invisible during this crisis. They should be going onto the offensive demanding everything necessary for workers to withstand a lockdown:

- 100% of normal wages paid directly to workers (including self-employed); not through the bosses.
- Rent and mortgages written off for the duration of the crisis.
- No redundancies. Companies threatening closure to be taken into public ownership under democratic workers' control and management.
- An immediate increase in the minimum wage to at least £12 an hour (£15 in London) - low-paid key workers deserve a decent wage rise.

Nothing will ever be the same again after this crisis. But we know from the 2008-09 world economic recession, the bank bailouts and the vicious austerity that followed, that the capitalists will be looking once again to make us foot the bill. :twisted:
Nicely copy and pasted from the Socialist Party's website.

https://www.socialistparty.org.uk/pdf/i ... 1/1081.pdf
Our perhaps he wrote the article?
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Rich Tea Wellin »

I think it was Whitty who dared to meekly state that we could, perhaps, have learnt something from Germany was immediately shot down the next day by a minister as being wrong.

The government will be back tracking for years on this but will never admit fault.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Currywurst and Chips »

Real Al wrote: Sat Apr 11, 2020 1:06 pm
Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: Sat Apr 11, 2020 12:47 pm
NuneatonO's wrote: Sat Apr 11, 2020 11:41 am As coronavirus deaths continue to mount at a terrifying rate - the government's responsibility for worsening the crisis is becoming clearer every day.

We are reading heartbreaking stories of NHS staff dying in growing numbers because the personal protective equipment (PPE) promised by the government is not reaching them, or is not up to scratch. One brilliant Doctor to have sadly died, works in my Wife's Hospital in Leicester.

In Southend University Hospital in Essex, a nurse was taken into intensive care just days after staff warned about the lack of PPE. Scandalously, medical staff in some hospitals have been threatened with losing their jobs if they speak out about PPE shortages on social media.

The testing chaos is far from being resolved. In March, Johnson told us that 10,000 people a day would be tested for coronavirus. Three weeks later only half that number was being reached. We were still being assured, however, that not only would 10,000 daily tests be carried out, but that the figure would be "ramped" up to 25,000 by mid-April.

Now, we're expected to believe that health secretary Matt Hancock has finally 'got it', and that 100,000 people a day will be tested by the end of the month. Testing manufacturers say they were "blindsided" by his announcement, and that the target is unlikely to be met. False promise or outright lie - what's the difference? There isn't any.

Indeed, after weeks of lies and broken promises, the daily briefings increasingly fail to inspire; or provide any confidence of leadership whatsoever.

Last week even the most pro-Tory papers were slamming the testing fiasco. "Questions without answers" was the headline in the Daily Telegraph, while the Daily Mail wrote about the "shocking testing scandal".

Every day there has been a different excuse from the government - a shortage of swabs, a lack of chemical reagents, not enough processing labs, and so on. But one by one their excuses have been demolished by the facts.

Leading scientific institutions have spoken out about their offers of testing facilities being turned down or ignored. Oxford University Dunn School of Pathology, for example, offered 119 testing machines, but only one was accepted. Anthony Costello, former director of the World Health Organisation (WHO), has spoken about the 44 registered virology labs that could have been used for analysing tests, but were not.

The main reason for the lack of testing, and the criminal shortage of PPE, is about successive Tory governments prioritising profits over health.

Commenting on this, Professor Graham Medley, a senior government adviser said: "You can say it was a mistake or you can say the government didn't want to invest millions of pounds into something that is about preparedness". Exactly.

The Financial Times was just as hard hitting: "A decade of government-enforced austerity had put the NHS under immense strain... By the standards of European counterparts the NHS is badly underfunded, with fewer doctors and nurses, fewer hospital beds, and fewer precious ventilators."

In early March some limited community testing was being carried out. But that was scrapped on 12th March when the government chose to go along with the strategy of 'herd immunity' - letting up to 60% of the population get coronavirus so that some immunity could be acquired, rather than trying to suppress it through a lockdown, as in Wuhan and Italy.

There's no doubt that profit lay behind that decision and dictated which scientific advice the Tories accepted. They wanted to keep the economy going so that their friends in big business could keep their profits flowing. It was only four days later, when modelling from Imperial College London warned that this strategy could overwhelm the NHS, and lead to 250,000 deaths, that they abruptly changed course.

By then other countries like South Korea and Germany were testing thousands of people a day. Britain was 'at the back of the queue', scrambling around in a dog-eat-dog world market in competition for testing equipment, PPE and ventilators.

These international 'mask wars', with supplies for the German police, for example, being 'hijacked' by the US in mid-flight from China, glaringly expose the anarchy of a capitalist system based on profit and cut-throat competition.

The testing scandal in Britain has not only exposed the deadly effects of austerity and an NHS ruled by cost-cutting. The delays in taking decisive action over testing equipment, and the chaotic response and failure to coordinate existing NHS facilities, have also revealed the inefficiency and incompetence of a bureaucratic, top-down health service, in which the rules of the private market increasingly dominate.

The need for democratic control and oversight of a fully funded public NHS by health workers, together with representatives of service users and the wider workers' movement, has been made crystal clear from the corona crisis.

The private facilities currently being paid for with public money should be immediately incorporated into the NHS with no compensation paid to the profiteers. Securing PPE, testing equipment, ventilators, treatments and a vaccine cannot be left to appeals to private business and the capitalist free market.

The pursuit of profit also explains why even the government's friends are turning on it over testing. With scientists saying that a Covid-19 vaccine is 12-18 months away, mass testing, tracing and isolating people who have the virus is the only 'exit strategy' from a general lockdown. Big business is terrified - not about the loss of life from coronavirus, but the loss of profits if lockdown goes on for months.

And they are clearly also worried about the unrest that could develop if the lockdown is prolonged. Not just 'lockdown fatigue', with people fed up of being stuck at home, often in cramped and overcrowded conditions, without an end in sight, but protests over food shortages and poverty, which are now beginning to take place in the south of Italy.

In Italy, big business initially resisted the closure of non-essential industry - endangering the health and safety of millions of workers. Strikes, walkouts and pressure from workers themselves forced the bosses and the government to back down. But now political representatives of the bosses are pushing again for industry to be reopened.

Mark the following words. Here, there will be similar pressure from those who, in defence of their own economic interests, say 'the cure is worse than the disease'. And the government will try to blame a lengthy lockdown and rising death toll on individuals not respecting social distancing, to deflect from the real reason - its incompetence and failed profits-first strategy.

Workers in construction, Royal Mail and other industries have already challenged grasping bosses and management putting profits before health and safety. There must be no 'trade-off' between our health and their wealth. Any attempts to prematurely restart the economy, endangering health and lives, must be resisted - through strike action if necessary.

Sadly, union leaders have for the most part been invisible during this crisis. They should be going onto the offensive demanding everything necessary for workers to withstand a lockdown:

- 100% of normal wages paid directly to workers (including self-employed); not through the bosses.
- Rent and mortgages written off for the duration of the crisis.
- No redundancies. Companies threatening closure to be taken into public ownership under democratic workers' control and management.
- An immediate increase in the minimum wage to at least £12 an hour (£15 in London) - low-paid key workers deserve a decent wage rise.

Nothing will ever be the same again after this crisis. But we know from the 2008-09 world economic recession, the bank bailouts and the vicious austerity that followed, that the capitalists will be looking once again to make us foot the bill. :twisted:
Nicely copy and pasted from the Socialist Party's website.

https://www.socialistparty.org.uk/pdf/i ... 1/1081.pdf
Our perhaps he wrote the article?
He added the smiley at the end so it's definitely co authored by him
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Ronnie Hotdogs »

Apple Wumble wrote: Sat Apr 11, 2020 1:07 pm I think it was Whitty who dared to meekly state that we could, perhaps, have learnt something from Germany was immediately shot down the next day by a minister as being wrong.

The government will be back tracking for years on this but will never admit fault.
Whitty - and others - are going to be absolutely crucified in a few months time. I’d have thought they were smart enough to realise this.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Thor »

Dunners wrote: Sat Apr 11, 2020 11:01 am The scientific advisors can only present data, models and a range of predictions. What they do not do is make decisions. That's what the government does.
Absolutely, but what if the data or findings being presented is flawed? Like I said earlier it will all come out in the wash, but if the scientific advice is to do xyz and that's what the government is doing then the logic was flawed.

It's almost like the government needs to take control of the decisions rather than being led by the scientists?

Although I've felt the science people have come across well, I hope the path they are taking us down is the right one.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by NuneatonO's »

Meanwhile, the gormless Tory Pr!ck of a 'Healthcare Secretary' didn't even know how many NHS Staff are known to have died so far (deferring the question to someone else):

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/b ... 9-21849878

Where's the PPE for NHS Staff then Mr. Hancock?

Where's the testing for NHS Staff theb Mr. Hqncock?

Where are the respirators for NHS Patients then Mr. Hancock?

You and the rest of your Tory Mob, continue to spout Bullsh!t and false promises.

An utter DISGRACE of a Government!
Last edited by NuneatonO's on Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Disoriented »

NuneatonO's wrote: Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:16 pm Meanwhile, the gormless Tory Pr!ck of a 'Healthcare Secretary' didn't even know how many NHS Staff have died so far:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/b ... 9-21849878

Where's the PPE for NHS Staff then Mr. Hancock?

Where's the testing for NHS Staff theb Mr. Hqncock?

Where are the respirators for NHS Patients then Mr. Hancock?

You and the rest of your Tory Mob, continue to spout Bullsh!t and false promises.

An utter DISGRACE of a Government!
Completely. There needs to be mass resignations at the end of this.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by NuneatonO's »

Absolutely.

Starting with the Clown Johnson; who is in 'high spirits' apparently; despite the many hundreds of deaths across the UK each day.

Maybe he's just looking forward to his next 'ponced holiday' to get away from it all.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Disoriented »

NuneatonO's wrote: Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:22 pm Absolutely.

Starting with the Clown Johnson; who is in 'high spirits' apparently; despite the many hundreds of deaths across the UK each day.

Maybe he's just looking forward to his next 'ponced holiday' to get away from it all.
Paid for by one of his cronies or some other blonde tart he is ‘doing a friendly favour for’ no doubt.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Currywurst and Chips »

Anyone else notice how the figures have been rising exponentially since Boris got the virus and started self isolating?

Raab has a lot to answer for, hopefully Boris can get well soon and start leading the fight back again.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by NuneatonO's »

Here's more utter BS from the lying, useless Tory Boy Hancock:

https://skwawkbox.org/2020/04/11/video- ... ontribute/

Can you just imagine the Alt-Right outcry if Diane Abbott got these numbers so seriously wrong?
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by BoniO »

Thor wrote: Sat Apr 11, 2020 1:59 pm
Dunners wrote: Sat Apr 11, 2020 11:01 am The scientific advisors can only present data, models and a range of predictions. What they do not do is make decisions. That's what the government does.
Absolutely, but what if the data or findings being presented is flawed? Like I said earlier it will all come out in the wash, but if the scientific advice is to do xyz and that's what the government is doing then the logic was flawed.

It's almost like the government needs to take control of the decisions rather than being led by the scientists?

Although I've felt the science people have come across well, I hope the path they are taking us down is the right one.
Do try and keep up. We know the path we’ve been forced down is the wrong one. Scientists give advice - government makes decisions - and they’ve been god awful so far. Stop trolling,
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Smendrick Feaselberg »

917 more deaths reported where peopled died with Coronavirus. This definitely is the UK figure.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by DonaldRocks »

Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:43 pm 917 more deaths reported where peopled died with Coronavirus. This definitely is the UK figure.
That's the reported figure but I'm still certain that's only hospital figures and doesn't include nursing homes or residential homecare facilities.

Godbless their families and friends.
Last edited by DonaldRocks on Sat Apr 11, 2020 4:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Smendrick Feaselberg »

RoryRocks wrote: Sat Apr 11, 2020 4:03 pm
Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:43 pm 917 more deaths reported where peopled died with Coronavirus. This definitely is the UK figure.
That's the reported figure but I'm still certain that's only hospital figures and doesn't include nursing homes or residential homecare facilities.

Godless their families and friends.
Yes, these daily figures are from hospitals, but they include people whose cause of death wasn't necessarily down to Coronavirus (e.g. Eddie Large who had been hospitalised due to heart failure and caught Covid-19 while in hospital).
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Thor »

I read that the number of deaths by pneumonia has halved since this began, so potentially people are dying of others issues, but are classed as covid when they were never that in the first place.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Long slender neck »

https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/s ... ly-deaths/

Good source of information if you're interested in how many have really died each day. (It's currently around 600-700 a day)
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Clive Evans »

Thor said " I read that the number of deaths by pneumonia has halved since this began, so potentially people are dying of others issues, but are classed as covid when they were never that in the first place."
Pneumonia is usually a disease that often affects people that are sick anyway. People who have a weakened immune system catch a cold or flu and it worsens to pneumonia. Surely it follows that with the prevalence of Covid19. These people are more likely to succumb to the Covid 19 than normal pneumonia ( in any case people who react badly to Covid 19 display a pneumonia like disease ). I don't get people who are trying to trivialise this terrible disease.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Long slender neck »

Covid causes pneumonia doesn't? So deaths are recorded as covid if someone tested positive for it, regardless of how they actually died.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Mistadobalina »

Posted this before, but Covid is a notifiable disease in a way that flu isn't. If someone is terminally ill or severely sick and caught flu, they would have cause of death registered as relating to the pre-existing condition. If the same thing happens with Covid, the cause of death will be given as Covid regardless of pre-existing condition.
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