Independent Leyton Orient Forum

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 5:33 pm

Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 4:36 pm

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 2:57 pm
We usually choose the best person for the job, regardless of gender. Are you a fan of North Korea?

So no women were good enough in 120 years

Obviously not!

Guess the Tories just have more capable women and ethnic minorities then

Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 5:41 pm

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 5:33 pm

Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 4:36 pm

So no women were good enough in 120 years

Obviously not!

Guess the Tories just have more capable women and ethnic minorities then

So the Tories were led by Thatcher and then May. Hardly a glowing reference for women in politics.

BoniO wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 6:31 pm

Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 5:41 pm

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 5:33 pm
Obviously not!

Guess the Tories just have more capable women and ethnic minorities then

So the Tories were led by Thatcher and then May. Hardly a glowing reference for women in politics.

Why do you think Labour have failed to elect a female leader?

Try to answer without telling me I'm funny or that I used to be good

Who did you vote for last time out, RLB or Nandy?

RedO wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 7:28 pm Who did you vote for last time out, RLB or Nandy?

Nandy, you?

New Zealand got a real gem of a leader who was even off in maternity leave. She could show many world leaders how to actually lead.

Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 7:40 pm

RedO wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 7:28 pm Who did you vote for last time out, RLB or Nandy?

Nandy, you?

I would have gone for RLB obvs, if I’d received the email.

Decade since bigotgate

Yep. At the time it just seemed like a humorous campaign mishap, but it is something that has been repeatedly recalled by ex-Labour voters who have since abandoned the party. Looking back it may be the moment that launched the 'cultural wars'.

Dunners wrote: ↑Tue Apr 28, 2020 3:04 pm Yep. At the time it just seemed like a humorous campaign mishap, but it is something that has been repeatedly recalled by ex-Labour voters who have since abandoned the party. Looking back it may be the moment that launched the 'cultural wars'.

I don't think it did launch the cultural wars these ex Labour voters were racists well before that.

That may be so, but it exposed one feature of a fundamental divide between the party leadership (and broader membership) and prospective voters which has never been addressed. Although, to be fair, it's not an easy one to address.

Putting aside whether they're racist or not, many former (and even current) Labour voters are small 'c' conservative. They associate more with values such as nationality than Trans rights. They also live in areas that have now experienced multi-generational decline, and have not received as much of the spoils that globalisation has brought as their metropolitan counterparts.

So to them, immigration is an easy target. I'm not suggesting that Labour should adopt nationalist or racist policies to appeal to them, but at present the only politicians that these people feel do understand them are from the right. And I'm not sure Labour even has the personnel anymore who can understand this issue from a class-politics perspective.

If you’ve grasped it, I’m pretty sure someone within their ranks will also grasp it.

RedO wrote: ↑Tue Apr 28, 2020 5:18 pm If you’ve grasped it, I’m pretty sure someone within their ranks will also grasp it.

Just cut these Labour voters a bigger slice of the capitalist cake and they will be fine.

Social Democracy come home to roost. You can't be complicit in the erosion of class consciousness and then complain that those nasty villains on the Right have filled people's heads with reactionary ideology. People will constantly be confronted with their alienation and will look for answers. If the best you've got is welfarism, wage restraint and the demobilisation of trade unionism then don't be surprised if people aren't impressed. Given the two propositions social chauvinism will always look a more plausible analysis and response. Social Democracy; bringing you war and counter-revolution since time immemorial.

Eat The Rich wrote: ↑Tue Apr 28, 2020 5:58 pm Social Democracy come home to roost. You can't be complicit in the erosion of class consciousness and then complain that those nasty villains on the Right have filled people's heads with reactionary ideology. People will constantly be confronted with their alienation and will look for answers. If the best you've got is welfarism, wage restraint and the demobilisation of trade unionism then don't be surprised if people aren't impressed. Given the two propositions social chauvinism will always look a more plausible analysis and response. Social Democracy; bringing you war and counter-revolution since time immemorial.

Centuries of right wing bigotry will always seep into small enclaves of socialism.

On bigotgate, I thought this was a well written article:

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/bi ... 87486.html

Dunners wrote: ↑Wed Apr 29, 2020 7:39 am On bigotgate, I thought this was a well written article:

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/bi ... 87486.html

It is, the problem is that she doesn't follow her own advice. The logic of the argument would see Labour tumble over like a row of dominoes.

If I have time later I'll try and explain why.

Dunners wrote: ↑Tue Apr 28, 2020 4:38 pm So to them, immigration is an easy target. I'm not suggesting that Labour should adopt nationalist or racist policies to appeal to them, but at present the only politicians that these people feel do understand them are from the right. And I'm not sure Labour even has the personnel anymore who can understand this issue from a class-politics perspective.

There 's that Blue Labour faction who have been agitating for that. Outside of Labour, on a limited local level, there's been the ICWA grouplet who had (have?) a few councillors.

Starmer smashes PMQs again, Boris clearly a better performer than Raab but great to see them being held to account for once

Such a breath of fresh air to have a strong opposition leader and a functioning opposition again

Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: ↑Wed Apr 29, 2020 3:35 pm Starmer smashes PMQs again, Boris clearly a better performer than Raab but great to see them being held to account for once

Such a breath of fresh air to have a strong opposition leader and a functioning opposition again

RedO wrote: ↑Wed Apr 29, 2020 4:05 pm

Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: ↑Wed Apr 29, 2020 3:35 pm Starmer smashes PMQs again, Boris clearly a better performer than Raab but great to see them being held to account for once

Such a breath of fresh air to have a strong opposition leader and a functioning opposition again

You love to see it

Yes it’s only Raab but fair play, that’s nicely done.

I can't wait for the Etonian Spaffer to return.

He's going to get anihilated once Starmer QC slips into second gear.

NuneatonO's wrote: ↑Thu Apr 30, 2020 1:38 am I can't wait for the Etonian Spaffer to return.

He's going to get anihilated once Starmer QC slips into second gear.

Damn right fella.

Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: ↑Wed Apr 29, 2020 3:35 pm Starmer smashes PMQs again, Boris clearly a better performer than Raab but great to see them being held to account for once

Such a breath of fresh air to have a strong opposition leader and a functioning opposition again

How are the opinion polls looking for this functioning opposition?