Independent Leyton Orient Forum

E10EU wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 9:50 pm This week Netanyahu admitted in an interview that the war was taking a heavy toll on civilians in Gaza, but blamed Hamas for the deaths. “That’s what we’re trying to do: minimal civilian casualties. But unfortunately, we’re not successful,” he told CBS.

Correct on all four counts then. If only the Hamas terrorists would surrender and return the hostages - this madness would all stop tomorrow.

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 9:56 pm Can you imagine if Putin had done what Israels done in Ukraine? Within 10 minutes of the war, Russia was thrown out of all sporting events, Israel havent. They played a Euro qualifier tonight.

What do you mean "if Putin had done what Israel's done in Ukraine"? Nearly 10,000 civilians have died in Ukraine, including 1000s of women and children. Putin has used cluster bombs and fired missiles indiscriminately, hitting civilian targets.

Putin's soldiers have committed rape, murder, torture, of women and children and prisoners of war. Sound familiar?

faldO wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 10:53 pm

E10EU wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 9:50 pm This week Netanyahu admitted in an interview that the war was taking a heavy toll on civilians in Gaza, but blamed Hamas for the deaths. “That’s what we’re trying to do: minimal civilian casualties. But unfortunately, we’re not successful,” he told CBS.

Correct on all four counts then. If only the Hamas terrorists would surrender and return the hostages - this madness would all stop tomorrow.

Faldo; have you read the article I linked to?

Surprising that after 6 weeks of mega bombing anything and everything this superior Israeli army still hasn't found the hostages. Maybe the Army's real objective now is to decimate and drive out what's left of the Palestinian population rather than rescuing the hostages?

E10EU wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 12:33 am

faldO wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 10:53 pm

E10EU wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 9:50 pm This week Netanyahu admitted in an interview that the war was taking a heavy toll on civilians in Gaza, but blamed Hamas for the deaths. “That’s what we’re trying to do: minimal civilian casualties. But unfortunately, we’re not successful,” he told CBS.

Correct on all four counts then. If only the Hamas terrorists would surrender and return the hostages - this madness would all stop tomorrow.

Faldo; have you read the article I linked to?

Surprising that after 6 weeks of mega bombing anything and everything this superior Israeli army still hasn't found the hostages. Maybe the Army's real objective now is to decimate and drive out what's left of the Palestinian population rather than rescuing the hostages?

Yes I read it, and I repeat: if the Hamas terrorists surrender and return the hostages the "mega bombing" will stop.

faldO wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 11:18 pm

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 9:56 pm Can you imagine if Putin had done what Israels done in Ukraine? Within 10 minutes of the war, Russia was thrown out of all sporting events, Israel havent. They played a Euro qualifier tonight.

What do you mean "if Putin had done what Israel's done in Ukraine"? Nearly 10,000 civilians have died in Ukraine, including 1000s of women and children. Putin has used cluster bombs and fired missiles indiscriminately, hitting civilian targets.

Putin's soldiers have committed rape, murder, torture, of women and children and prisoners of war. Sound familiar?

If you be;ieve the western medias propaganda. You wenrt there, how do you know what Russian soldiers have done.
Youre another one defending Israel, the most horrific apartheid state in the world.
Why havent Israel been thrown out of world sport?

You wenrt there, how do YOU know what Russian soldiers have done?

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 1:13 pm

faldO wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 11:18 pm

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 9:56 pm Can you imagine if Putin had done what Israels done in Ukraine? Within 10 minutes of the war, Russia was thrown out of all sporting events, Israel havent. They played a Euro qualifier tonight.

What do you mean "if Putin had done what Israel's done in Ukraine"? Nearly 10,000 civilians have died in Ukraine, including 1000s of women and children. Putin has used cluster bombs and fired missiles indiscriminately, hitting civilian targets.

Putin's soldiers have committed rape, murder, torture, of women and children and prisoners of war. Sound familiar?

If you be;ieve the western medias propaganda. You wenrt there, how do you know what Russian soldiers have done.
Youre another one defending Israel, the most horrific apartheid state in the world.
Why havent Israel been thrown out of world sport?

"Western media propaganda?" How's Amnesty International for you?

https://www.amnesty.org/en/location/eur ... rt-ukraine
Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine in February was a violation of the UN Charter and an act of aggression, a crime under international law. Russian forces conducted indiscriminate attacks resulting in thousands of civilian casualties, amid mounting evidence of other crimes including torture, sexual violence and unlawful killings.

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 1:26 pm You wenrt there, how do YOU know what Russian soldiers have done?

How many Vietnam vets does it take to change a lightbulb?

You don't know man, YOU WEREN'T THERE!

faldO wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 1:05 am

E10EU wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 12:33 am

faldO wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 10:53 pm
Correct on all four counts then. If only the Hamas terrorists would surrender and return the hostages - this madness would all stop tomorrow.

Faldo; have you read the article I linked to?

Surprising that after 6 weeks of mega bombing anything and everything this superior Israeli army still hasn't found the hostages. Maybe the Army's real objective now is to decimate and drive out what's left of the Palestinian population rather than rescuing the hostages?

Yes I read it, and I repeat: if the Hamas terrorists surrender and return the hostages the "mega bombing" will stop.

The 'mega bombing' will end and they can just go back to the normal levels of bombing?

I found a very interesting article about Israels obligations to international law which they break with impunity constantly.
I have copied relevant passages, and left the source link, if anyone wants to read the whole thing



Israel’s reaction to Palestinians exercising the right to resist, a right enshrined in both the customs and treaties of international law, is nothing short of brutal. The past few weeks have seen an array of incidences highlighting the perversity of the Israeli forces’ suppression of peaceful protest: arbitrary arrests and detentions, tear-gassing of demonstrators and—in the tragic but sadly not unusual case of a teenager allegedly throwing stones—a fatal shooting.


Relevant law and custom
As well as refusing to distinguish between legitimate armed struggle and acts of terror, Israel’s constant suppression of non-violent protest highlights its attempts to completely delegitimise the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination.
Article 1 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR), which was ratified by Israel in 1966, states that “all peoples have the right to self-determination.” It elaborates the right to “freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development”.

The Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR)—which together with the ICCPR, UN Charter and customary law, makes up the body of international human rights law—guarantees the “freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers”. The right to peaceful assembly—again, enshrined in both the UDHR and ICCPR—is inviolable, but for necessary “national security” interests.
What is more, the myriad of UN General Assembly resolutions that explicitly recognise the “legitimacy of the people’s struggle for liberation from colonial and foreign domination...by all available means” only strengthens the legal basis for the right to resist.


In the sphere of customary international law, the Advisory Opinion of the International Court of Justice also merits attention. In 2004, it issued its opinion against the Separation Wall, stating that the path of the Wall—80 percent of which runs through Palestinian land, well outside of Israel’s internationally recognised borders—is illegal.

In light of Israel’s endless list of violations against the Fourth Convention, the existence of a parallel moral right to resist becomes obvious, especially given that numerous UN bodies have unequivocally stated that international humanitarian law (including the Geneva Conventions), as well as international human rights law, must be observed by Israel as an occupying power.

The laws of war, by virtue of the Fourth Geneva Convention, authorise occupying powers to establish military courts for the civilians under occupation. The practices of the Israeli occupation forces, however, go far beyond the jurisdiction that is permissible and amount to grave human rights violations.

The international community’s failure to compel Israel to observe the law allows this criminalisation to persist.

The right of resistance of the Palestinian people is grounded in law, custom and conscience. It is the moral duty of international organisations, governmental or non-governmental, to recognise this right

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/north- ... ppression/

stopped reading at

Palestinians exercising the right to resist

Is that what they call murdering 1000+ civilians?

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 10:38 am stopped reading at

Palestinians exercising the right to resist

Is that what they call murdering 1000+ civilians?

You mean compared to the 12,000 civilians, Israel has murdered?
You are truly ignorant. I point out international law, you refuse to look, and then to add insult to injury, you put some inaccurate mumbo jumbo

Is it 'the law' that you can murder, rape and kidnap 1000+ civilians? Is that resisting or just terrorism?

Yeah, but what about Terry?

So depressing when people reduce this to Number of Dead Top Trumps.

There is at least prospects of a cessation of fighting to provide further relief to civillians . The reality is not one of the protests across the country. has achieved anything towards this and all these have done has caused more division in the UK and inflamed tensions amongst communities and within the Labour Party where Labour’s office came under attack because she chose not to support a ceasefire and tow the party line. Hamsa will surely be severely damaged in the long run. The IDF will stick to the halt in fighting. Lets how short it will be for Hamsa to break it.

Proposition Joe wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 12:30 pm So depressing when people reduce this to Number of Dead Top Trumps.

How about 4th biggest armed forces in the world v no army no planes no tanks & no ships ?

I've got 'Elections: 90' here

Joe315 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 12:44 pm

Proposition Joe wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 12:30 pm So depressing when people reduce this to Number of Dead Top Trumps.

How about 4th biggest armed forces in the world v no army no planes no tanks & no ships ?

What does that have to do with what I said?

Proposition Joe wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 1:06 pm

Joe315 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 12:44 pm

Proposition Joe wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 12:30 pm So depressing when people reduce this to Number of Dead Top Trumps.

How about 4th biggest armed forces in the world v no army no planes no tanks & no ships ?

What does that have to do with what I said?

It seems to Imply that x amount of Human beings Israeli or Palestinian lives lost, is of little importance. I know you arent saying that, but these numbers do actually matter & people should be reminded regardless of how depressing it is.

Joe315 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 1:51 pm

Proposition Joe wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 1:06 pm

Joe315 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 12:44 pm

How about 4th biggest armed forces in the world v no army no planes no tanks & no ships ?

What does that have to do with what I said?

It seems to Imply that x amount of Human beings Israeli or Palestinian lives lost, is of little importance. I know you arent saying that, but these numbers do actually matter & people should be reminded regardless of how depressing it is.

Good thing you mentioned it because the death tolls aren’t being reported anywhere else

Currywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 2:28 pm

Joe315 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 1:51 pm

Proposition Joe wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 1:06 pm

What does that have to do with what I said?

It seems to Imply that x amount of Human beings Israeli or Palestinian lives lost, is of little importance. I know you arent saying that, but these numbers do actually matter & people should be reminded regardless of how depressing it is.

Good thing you’ve mentioned it because the death tolls aren’t being reported anywhere else

Thank you

Anti-Semitic trope or just an innocent cuddly toy?

Dunners wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2023 9:32 am Anti-Semitic trope or just an innocent cuddly toy?

I don’t get it?

People know University Challenge isn't live, right?