Independent Leyton Orient Forum

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 11:35 am

Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 11:23 am It's a shame that so many people on here can't accept party democracy and Keir's mandate. They're doing the Tories job for them and should be ashamed of themselves

You Labour centrists are a joke. You and your ilk did nothing but undermine Corbyn when he was elected leader, twice, yet all of a sudden you are saying we should accept Starmer.
You lot didnt accept Corbyn, so why should us lefties accept Starmer?

No you're right, attacking each other is the best way to beat the Tories.

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 11:35 am

Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 11:23 am It's a shame that so many people on here can't accept party democracy and Keir's mandate. They're doing the Tories job for them and should be ashamed of themselves

You Labour centrists are a joke. You and your ilk did nothing but undermine Corbyn when he was elected leader, twice, yet all of a sudden you are saying we should accept Starmer.
You lot didnt accept Corbyn, so why should us lefties accept Starmer?

Obvious answer is to split the party in to 2. The Labour centrists can then provide a challenge to the Tory party and the left wingers can...........

Splitting is what the centrist Tiggers sensibles thought would be the answer this time last year. Worked out well for them and the “nicer tories” Lib Dems at the GE, didn’t it?

Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 11:23 am It's a shame that so many people on here can't accept party democracy and Keir's mandate. They're doing the Tories job for them and should be ashamed of themselves

Ornchurch wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 11:45 am Obvious answer is to split the party in to 2. The Labour centrists can then provide a challenge to the Tory party and the left wingers can...........

What's your favourite Centrist idea or policy? Genuine question. Other than tailing whatever the Tories and their friends in the media say I really can't think of anything that would constitute an actual meaningful and progressive policy advanced by the Centrists and Rightists.

Ornchurch wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 11:45 am

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 11:35 am

Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 11:23 am It's a shame that so many people on here can't accept party democracy and Keir's mandate. They're doing the Tories job for them and should be ashamed of themselves

You Labour centrists are a joke. You and your ilk did nothing but undermine Corbyn when he was elected leader, twice, yet all of a sudden you are saying we should accept Starmer.
You lot didnt accept Corbyn, so why should us lefties accept Starmer?

Obvious answer is to split the party in to 2. The Labour centrists can then provide a challenge to the Tory party and the left wingers can...........

No need for a split, there's already a plethora of fringe parties that cater to the far left's fringe views

Eat The Rich wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 11:53 am

Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 11:23 am It's a shame that so many people on here can't accept party democracy and Keir's mandate. They're doing the Tories job for them and should be ashamed of themselves

Ornchurch wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 11:45 am Obvious answer is to split the party in to 2. The Labour centrists can then provide a challenge to the Tory party and the left wingers can...........

What's your favourite Centrist idea or policy? Genuine question. Other than tailing whatever the Tories and their friends in the media say I really can't think of anything that would constitute an actual meaningful and progressive policy advanced by the Centrists and Rightists.

Er, how long has Sir I-Keir been in charge? There have been other things on his mind instead of policy formulation.

Let it go fella - the centrists aren’t the enemy.

Eat The Rich wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 11:53 am

Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 11:23 am It's a shame that so many people on here can't accept party democracy and Keir's mandate. They're doing the Tories job for them and should be ashamed of themselves

Ornchurch wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 11:45 am Obvious answer is to split the party in to 2. The Labour centrists can then provide a challenge to the Tory party and the left wingers can...........

What's your favourite Centrist idea or policy? Genuine question. Other than tailing whatever the Tories and their friends in the media say I really can't think of anything that would constitute an actual meaningful and progressive policy advanced by the Centrists and Rightists.

No idea fella. I really have no interest in politics.

I just look at the bigger question of how one party can beat another when it is so intent on fighting an internal battle.

How quickly people forget the Tories were at each others throats all of last year too. It’s inevitable in “broad church” parties.

slacker wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 12:08 pm How quickly people forget the Tories were at each others throats all of last year too. It’s inevitable in “broad church” parties.

How quickly people forget? Had no idea they were.

They obviously pulled together for the greater good of winning the election a lot better than Labour then.

That's because the Tories understand the importance of being in power

The left only care about controlling the Labour Party

The main problem is there is no single 'socialism' that can be pointed to and said to be "what it is all about". There is instead a myriad of factions all fighting against each other most seeking the mythical 'revolt of the people'. They range from Social Democracy to Pol Pot. However they come about Socialist regimes generally end up as self-perpetuating dictatorships. Their only common tenet being "the prolitairiat will do what we tell them".

Those on the left have the choice of either conceding some of their socialism to get elected or sit forever watching right wing goverments do just enough to avoid a revolution. Every now and then a faction comes to the surface and tries to speed up the revolt by 'entryism', joining parties and other organisations to sow disorder and dissent. Militant Tendancy were a good example of this making peoples working lives much more difficult than they should have been and making Labour less electable. I think Momentum comes in the same bracket, disruptive influence and control-freakery, getting in the ear of a basically decent man and turning him to a better target for the press. It is said the Labour Party is a broad church, problem is most of that church's foundations have just voted Tory. So much for 'real' socialism in the UK then.

My point is if you can have a Thatcher government getting away with what it did without a revolution occuring there is not much hope in the future is there?

Mikero

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/labour-party- ... 30657.html

think labour are going to need a bank loan.

When Starmer won the leadership, he got rid of all the Corbyn supporters from the Shadow Cabinet, & I suspect soon, all Corbyn supporters will be removed from the backroom staffers. From his point of view ( not from mine), this was the right thing to do.
First rule of politics is, get rid of your enemies before they get rid of you, and that was Corbyns biggest mistake. From day one, he should have been getting rid of all the centerists/right wingers, because it was a certainty, that if he didnt, they would eventually get rid of him....and so it worked out.
Corbyns mistake was he's too nice a guy...he thought appeasing these horrible people would make them less harsh towards him, but history tells us, appeasement never works...ever. Your opponents just think you are weak
Had Corbyn purged the party of these traitors, the left would have taken control of the party for a very long time

He lost two elections, so it's the public that have got rid of him.

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 4:03 pm He lost two elections, so it's the public that have got rid of him.

No he lost 1 election
The other was formed by the party who got most votes but not enough to WIN the Election & had to form a majority goverment , which is in no way WINNING.

slacker wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 12:08 pm How quickly people forget the Tories were at each others throats all of last year too. It’s inevitable in “broad church” parties.

Indeed. Imagine what we could have achieved had the left prioritised working together to defeat the Tories over ideological purity

Eat The Rich wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 10:42 am

Millennial Snowflake wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 10:28 am Why can’t you old fogies just accept that socialism is an outdated model?

Old fogie? I'm 40 you cheeky sod!

In Diane Abbott years.

StockholmO wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 6:32 pm

Eat The Rich wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 10:42 am

Millennial Snowflake wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 10:28 am Why can’t you old fogies just accept that socialism is an outdated model?

Old fogie? I'm 40 you cheeky sod!

In Diane Abbott years.

You're back are you?

I don't even know what your reply means.

Keir was quite impressive today on his PMQ's debut

So refreshing to finally have an effective opposition again

Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 9:45 pm Keir was quite impressive today on his PMQ's debut

So refreshing to finally have an effective opposition again

A barrel load of ammunition from these hellish last 3 weeks. No one opposite to shout him down. And he barely made a dent.

Let’s hope his was just a case of him getting his feet under the table and he performs better next week.

RedO wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 10:07 pm

Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 9:45 pm Keir was quite impressive today on his PMQ's debut

So refreshing to finally have an effective opposition again

A barrel load of ammunition from these hellish last 3 weeks. No one opposite to shout him down. And he barely made a dent.

Spoken like a true Tory.

Disoriented wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 11:16 pm

RedO wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 10:07 pm

Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 9:45 pm Keir was quite impressive today on his PMQ's debut

So refreshing to finally have an effective opposition again

A barrel load of ammunition from these hellish last 3 weeks. No one opposite to shout him down. And he barely made a dent.

Spoken like a true Tory.

Come on Disso. The Tories are on their knees. Their Leader is a complete failure and they are split.

Strammer was rubbish.

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 2:54 am

Disoriented wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 11:16 pm

RedO wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 10:07 pm



A barrel load of ammunition from these hellish last 3 weeks. No one opposite to shout him down. And he barely made a dent.

Spoken like a true Tory.

Come on Disso. The Tories are on their knees. Their Leader is a complete failure and they are split.

Strammer was rubbish.

Yes, but he still made mincemeat of Raab.

You know it, we all know it.

Disoriented wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 7:06 am

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 2:54 am

Disoriented wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 11:16 pm

Spoken like a true Tory.

Come on Disso. The Tories are on their knees. Their Leader is a complete failure and they are split.

Strammer was rubbish.

Yes, but he still made mincemeat of Raab.

You know it, we all know it.

You didn’t watch it, did you. He hardly laid a jab on him - someone should tell Sirkier that social distancing doesn’t apply to debating.