Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Fri Sep 01, 2023 5:57 pm

Dunners wrote: ↑Fri Sep 01, 2023 4:17 pm It looks like she's getting cancelled. A promotional gig in London has been cancelled, and her record company are choosing to avoid publicising her new album due to what's happened. TRAs/blokes are advocating that she experiences physical violence.

And, once again, the silence from the left is deafening and the far right are capitalising on the logic vacuum. At least her Ally Pally gig is sold out.

Maybe she shouldn't have stuck her nose into other people's lives and pontificated about something she admits she knows nothing about. I learned that lesson the hard way.

Dunners wrote: ↑Fri Sep 01, 2023 6:01 pm

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Fri Sep 01, 2023 5:57 pm

Dunners wrote: ↑Fri Sep 01, 2023 4:17 pm It looks like she's getting cancelled. A promotional gig in London has been cancelled, and her record company are choosing to avoid publicising her new album due to what's happened. TRAs/blokes are advocating that she experiences physical violence.

And, once again, the silence from the left is deafening and the far right are capitalising on the logic vacuum. At least her Ally Pally gig is sold out.

Maybe she shouldn't have stuck her nose into other people's lives and pontificated about something she admits she knows nothing about. I learned that lesson the hard way.

She should know her place.

CEB wrote: ↑Fri Sep 01, 2023 6:09 pm I see MB Gold is at his “pretend it’s all a big joke” stage, which usually happens when a woman is treated unfairly and Maxx’yyy can’t quite rationalise it. I expect it to be forgotten about when next he moves onto “CEB is aligned with fascists!” as he pretends to have completely forgotten about the authoritarian arseholes trying to end a woman’s career in a week or two.

Or who knows, maybe she’ll actually be interviewed by a sympathetic journalist at the Times, at which point he can say “lol cancelled? Didn’t realise that she thought people were obliged to buy her records, and if she’s cancelled how come she won’t shut up”

Tedious.

Loin Cloth Lenny wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 9:22 am I recently went to a festival over a few weeks and met many trans people , a small proportion of total in attendance. Some were obviously trans whilst I was unsure of others as they looked very much like a woman. Even so, the conversations were restricted to music and no mention was made of their dress, appearance or sexuality. Everyone got on so well as was expected. Personally , I treated everyone present with the same respect. In this day and age where straight men wear dresses ( Scottish men , kilts, Asian dress, Beckham Sarongs, Vicars frocks) who cares?

Loin Cloth Lenny wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 9:22 am I recently went to a festival over a few weeks and met many trans people , a small proportion of total in attendance. Some were obviously trans whilst I was unsure of others as they looked very much like a woman. Even so, the conversations were restricted to music and no mention was made of their dress, appearance or sexuality. Everyone got on so well as was expected. Personally , I treated everyone present with the same respect. In this day and age where straight men wear dresses ( Scottish men , kilts, Asian dress, Beckham Sarongs, Vicars frocks) who cares?

Loin Cloth Lenny wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 9:22 am I recently went to a festival over a few weeks and met many trans people , a small proportion of total in attendance. Some were obviously trans whilst I was unsure of others as they looked very much like a woman. Even so, the conversations were restricted to music and no mention was made of their dress, appearance or sexuality. Everyone got on so well as was expected. Personally , I treated everyone present with the same respect. In this day and age where straight men wear dresses ( Scottish men , kilts, Asian dress, Beckham Sarongs, Vicars frocks) who cares?

CEB wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 9:23 am

Loin Cloth Lenny wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 9:22 am I recently went to a festival over a few weeks and met many trans people , a small proportion of total in attendance. Some were obviously trans whilst I was unsure of others as they looked very much like a woman. Even so, the conversations were restricted to music and no mention was made of their dress, appearance or sexuality. Everyone got on so well as was expected. Personally , I treated everyone present with the same respect. In this day and age where straight men wear dresses ( Scottish men , kilts, Asian dress, Beckham Sarongs, Vicars frocks) who cares?

Another person fails to understand the debate. How stupid do you have to be to still believe that what is being debated is the right of men to wear what they want?

Loin Cloth Lenny wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 9:41 am

CEB wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 9:23 am

Loin Cloth Lenny wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 9:22 am I recently went to a festival over a few weeks and met many trans people , a small proportion of total in attendance. Some were obviously trans whilst I was unsure of others as they looked very much like a woman. Even so, the conversations were restricted to music and no mention was made of their dress, appearance or sexuality. Everyone got on so well as was expected. Personally , I treated everyone present with the same respect. In this day and age where straight men wear dresses ( Scottish men , kilts, Asian dress, Beckham Sarongs, Vicars frocks) who cares?

Another person fails to understand the debate. How stupid do you have to be to still believe that what is being debated is the right of men to wear what they want?

I was just interacting with people about music. Was not at all bothered with what they were wearing , how they looked, I mean some of the colourfully outfits at Glastonbury (and revealing costumes) are part of the deal.

CEB wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 9:43 am

Loin Cloth Lenny wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 9:41 am

CEB wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 9:23 am

Another person fails to understand the debate. How stupid do you have to be to still believe that what is being debated is the right of men to wear what they want?

I was just interacting with people about music. Was not at all bothered with what they were wearing , how they looked, I mean some of the colourfully outfits at Glastonbury (and revealing costumes) are part of the deal.

Why on Earth would you be bothered about what people were wearing or how they looked? What’s your point, here, exactly? You do understand that “the trans debate” is not a debate about whether men should be able to freely wear whatever they want without being held to arbitrary standards of masculinity, right?

CEB wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 9:43 am

Loin Cloth Lenny wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 9:41 am

CEB wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 9:23 am

Another person fails to understand the debate. How stupid do you have to be to still believe that what is being debated is the right of men to wear what they want?

I was just interacting with people about music. Was not at all bothered with what they were wearing , how they looked, I mean some of the colourfully outfits at Glastonbury (and revealing costumes) are part of the deal.

Why on Earth would you be bothered about what people were wearing or how they looked? What’s your point, here, exactly? You do understand that “the trans debate” is not a debate about whether men should be able to freely wear whatever they want without being held to arbitrary standards of masculinity, right?

Loin Cloth Lenny wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 9:52 am

CEB wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 9:43 am

Loin Cloth Lenny wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 9:41 am

I was just interacting with people about music. Was not at all bothered with what they were wearing , how they looked, I mean some of the colourfully outfits at Glastonbury (and revealing costumes) are part of the deal.

Why on Earth would you be bothered about what people were wearing or how they looked? What’s your point, here, exactly? You do understand that “the trans debate” is not a debate about whether men should be able to freely wear whatever they want without being held to arbitrary standards of masculinity, right?

I am not bothered what they wore but as part of innate human interaction, verbal intercourse, social interaction ( you weigh up a person during conversation) it crosses one’s mind . What is your problem with that may I kindly ask?

Are you hoping for ‘Thought Police’ to be appointed?

Having said that, I firmly believe that there are two sexes, Male and Female that the Good Lord blessed us with. If a man wants to change to a woman and a woman to a man, fine by me.

Proposition Joe wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 9:26 am

Loin Cloth Lenny wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 9:22 am I recently went to a festival over a few weeks and met many trans people , a small proportion of total in attendance. Some were obviously trans whilst I was unsure of others as they looked very much like a woman. Even so, the conversations were restricted to music and no mention was made of their dress, appearance or sexuality. Everyone got on so well as was expected. Personally , I treated everyone present with the same respect. In this day and age where straight men wear dresses ( Scottish men , kilts, Asian dress, Beckham Sarongs, Vicars frocks) who cares?

I've finally twigged that these posts are all done by Chat GPT.

CEB wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 10:01 am “Are you hoping for thought police to be appointed?”

Again, can you read?
Think what you like. It’s just bizarre that you think that your internal observation that you were socialising with a man who believes he is a woman, and your subsequent recognition that it has no impact on you, is in any way pertinent to the trans debate. Do you understand what is being debated in the “trans debate”?

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:52 pm Seems to me that the blockers are just the start of a conveyor belt of 'treatment'.

Loin Cloth Lenny wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 12:22 pm

CEB wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 10:01 am “Are you hoping for thought police to be appointed?”

Again, can you read?
Think what you like. It’s just bizarre that you think that your internal observation that you were socialising with a man who believes he is a woman, and your subsequent recognition that it has no impact on you, is in any way pertinent to the trans debate. Do you understand what is being debated in the “trans debate”?

Now you have asked, no I don’t know.

I want to say live and let live. I treat everyone as I find with equal respect and reverence. I was in the company of new people who knew a good friend of mine recently . On the journey home he said that this huge bald bloke with a beard who had been in our presence all evening was born a female and did I realise.

I said I did not realise and said good luck to her if she is now happy. For all I knew she was a man. I don’t know if she had changed organs and it was none of my business if she was now happy in the right body. It is of no concern to anyone but her.

Loin Cloth Lenny wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 12:24 pm

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:52 pm Seems to me that the blockers are just the start of a conveyor belt of 'treatment'.

I think parents should authorise treatment as it could be a phase a youngster could be going through.

CEB wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 12:31 pm

Loin Cloth Lenny wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 12:22 pm

CEB wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 10:01 am “Are you hoping for thought police to be appointed?”

Again, can you read?
Think what you like. It’s just bizarre that you think that your internal observation that you were socialising with a man who believes he is a woman, and your subsequent recognition that it has no impact on you, is in any way pertinent to the trans debate. Do you understand what is being debated in the “trans debate”?

Now you have asked, no I don’t know.

I want to say live and let live. I treat everyone as I find with equal respect and reverence. I was in the company of new people who knew a good friend of mine recently . On the journey home he said that this huge bald bloke with a beard who had been in our presence all evening was born a female and did I realise.

I said I did not realise and said good luck to her if she is now happy. For all I knew she was a man. I don’t know if she had changed organs and it was none of my business if she was now happy in the right body. It is of no concern to anyone but her.

Thank you for your honesty.
The reason your experiences are not pertinent to the debate is this:
Trans organisations and charities are pushing the idea that the only thing necessary for someone to be seen as having become a member of the opposite sex is a self declared assertion, and that that assertion should suffice. No operations, no hormones necessary.
Humans cant actually change sex, but you’re right; there’s no harm most of the time in people living their lives in a way that corresponds to their own idea of what it is to be a member of the opposite sex.
The issue arises when sex matters.

Here’s what I mean. You meet a male person at a festival, wearing a dress, and correctly recognise that how that male person presents is no harm to you, and so you accept that some men wear dresses, and sometimes believe themselves to be women. That’s not in dispute by anyone aside from the most rabid right wing bigot.

But the issue would be this; let’s say your mother requires intimate care as she gets older. For her safety and dignity, she would like her care to be carried out by a female career, and you presumably would support her in that.
If an organisation assigned a male person who believes himself to be a woman to be an appropriate person to provide intimate care (as has actual;y happened when organisations started designing policies based on Stonewall’s guidelines), would you consider that to be fine, or would you take issue? (and if you think it’s fine, while I disagree, that’s up to you. My aim here is to show you what the clash of rights is - in this case the right of a male person to have his identity validated in all circumstances, Vs the right of a female person to have same sex care)

CEB wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 12:36 pm

Loin Cloth Lenny wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 12:24 pm

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:52 pm Seems to me that the blockers are just the start of a conveyor belt of 'treatment'.

I think parents should authorise treatment as it could be a phase a youngster could be going through.

Parents don’t have the right to decide that their children’s potential to have children can be taken away on the basis of regressive ideas about some personality traits being inappropriate for their sex.

This isn’t difficult.