Really? What will that achieve other than to exasperate the crisis and put the final nail in the coffin of the Labour party. If you want Britain's only Social Democratic party to become obsolete as per PASOK then, yeh I guess, Woo! for more austerity.
Austerity is going to be back whether we like it or not and won’t the Tories have a hard-on about that fact.
Austerity can't come back for economic and political stability reasons.
RedO wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 7:47 pm
Well yes exactly, if only. If only HQ were on board and acting in the Party's best interests. If only those snakes hadn't been trying to undermine the leader and his team. If only they had been focusing on key marginals, rather than diverting funds to TW to ensure he won. If only they hadn't been using anti-semitism as a tool with which to discredit Corbyn. If only they would have rather had a Jezza led Labour government than another 5 years in opposition with someone else at the helm.
Absolute c*nts, one and all.
If only these principled Marxists hadn’t leaked the report in a final, spiteful move.
Are you saying the reprehensible behaviour of the right wing should have been covered up?
What is spiteful about having the truth come out?
Your hatred of Marxists and the left is clouding the little judgement you might once have had.
Really? What will that achieve other than to exasperate the crisis and put the final nail in the coffin of the Labour party. If you want Britain's only Social Democratic party to become obsolete as per PASOK then, yeh I guess, Woo! for more austerity.
Austerity is going to be back whether we like it or not and won’t the Tories have a hard-on about that fact.
Austerity can't come back for economic and political stability reasons.
I agree the government has got to spend it's way out of this crisis as there is going to be so much damage to people first and foremost, then the companies that go bust the economy will tank and only the injection of money from central government will help to repair and get it all going once more.
I've got great faith in the people of this country to bounce back, I just hope the politicians don't leave anyone behind in sorting this out. When this crisis is over if ever there was a case of fixing the broken windows now is that time.
One thing I'm going into bat on is the homeless people. The governments aims are to eradicate it by 2025, I among others will be trying our upmost to pressure the government to bring this forwards and get it sorted quicker.
Austerity is going to be back whether we like it or not and won’t the Tories have a hard-on about that fact.
Austerity can't come back for economic and political stability reasons.
I agree the government has got to spend it's way out of this crisis as there is going to be so much damage to people first and foremost, then the companies that go bust the economy will tank and only the injection of money from central government will help to repair and get it all going once more.
I've got great faith in the people of this country to bounce back, I just hope the politicians don't leave anyone behind in sorting this out. When this crisis is over if ever there was a case of fixing the broken windows now is that time.
One thing I'm going into bat on is the homeless people. The governments aims are to eradicate it by 2025, I among others will be trying our upmost to pressure the government to bring this forwards and get it sorted quicker.
So who in particular do you know in government that you will be trying to influence to help the disadvantaged?
Re: Labour Watch
Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2020 5:26 pm
by Dunners
Thor wrote: ↑Sat Apr 18, 2020 3:59 pm
One thing I'm going into bat on is the homeless people. The governments aims are to eradicate it by 2025, I among others will be trying our upmost to pressure the government to bring this forwards and get it sorted quicker.
RedO wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 7:47 pm
Well yes exactly, if only. If only HQ were on board and acting in the Party's best interests. If only those snakes hadn't been trying to undermine the leader and his team. If only they had been focusing on key marginals, rather than diverting funds to TW to ensure he won. If only they hadn't been using anti-semitism as a tool with which to discredit Corbyn. If only they would have rather had a Jezza led Labour government than another 5 years in opposition with someone else at the helm.
Absolute c*nts, one and all.
If only these principled Marxists hadn’t leaked the report in a final, spiteful move.
Are you saying the reprehensible behaviour of the right wing should have been covered up?
What is spiteful about having the truth come out?
Your hatred of Marxists and the left is clouding the little judgement you might once have had.
My hatred is reserved for the Tories fella - the Marxists I simply don’t respect.
If only these principled Marxists hadn’t leaked the report in a final, spiteful move.
Are you saying the reprehensible behaviour of the right wing should have been covered up?
What is spiteful about having the truth come out?
Your hatred of Marxists and the left is clouding the little judgement you might once have had.
My hatred is reserved for the Tories fella - the Marxists I simply don’t respect.
If you don't like or respect Marxists where do you get your critique of capitalism from?
You should always respect your political opponents. When you don't it ends up in a sordid personality clash with people calling their opponents things like "bitch face cow" etc.
Are you saying the reprehensible behaviour of the right wing should have been covered up?
What is spiteful about having the truth come out?
Your hatred of Marxists and the left is clouding the little judgement you might once have had.
My hatred is reserved for the Tories fella - the Marxists I simply don’t respect.
If you don't like or respect Marxists where do you get your critique of capitalism from?
You should always respect your political opponents. When you don't it ends up in a sordid personality clash with people calling their opponents things like "bitch face cow" etc.
Are you saying the reprehensible behaviour of the right wing should have been covered up?
What is spiteful about having the truth come out?
Your hatred of Marxists and the left is clouding the little judgement you might once have had.
My hatred is reserved for the Tories fella - the Marxists I simply don’t respect.
If you don't like or respect Marxists where do you get your critique of capitalism from?
You should always respect your political opponents. When you don't it ends up in a sordid personality clash with people calling their opponents things like "bitch face cow" etc.
Or ‘imbecile’.
Re: Labour Watch
Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2020 10:05 am
by Ronnie Hotdogs
Is Sirkier hiding in the same fridge as Boris? Where the f*** is he?
Re: Labour Watch
Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2020 10:11 am
by Eat The Rich
The Labour party is done. We're back to Blairite Toryism which means you can vote for corrupt toadies of the Capitalist elite in a blue, yellow or red rosette. Democracy my arse.
Thor wrote: ↑Sat Apr 18, 2020 3:59 pm
One thing I'm going into bat on is the homeless people. The governments aims are to eradicate it by 2025, I among others will be trying our upmost to pressure the government to bring this forwards and get it sorted quicker.
This could be a game changer.
Well he's already planning to march on Downing Street to demand big pay rises for the NHS so he can just add this to his demands. He's gonna need a bloody big banner though.
Re: Labour Watch
Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2020 10:25 am
by ComeOnYouOs
Eat The Rich wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 10:11 am
The Labour party is done. We're back to Blairite Toryism which means you can vote for corrupt toadies of the Capitalist elite in a blue, yellow or red rosette. Democracy my arse.
Imagine a restaurant...there are Labour waiters on one side, and Conservative waiters on the other side. It doesn't matter which waiters serve you, the food comes from the same kitchen.......thats politics today in the UK
Re: Labour Watch
Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2020 10:28 am
by Millennial Snowflake
Why can’t you old fogies just accept that socialism is an outdated model?
Re: Labour Watch
Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2020 10:30 am
by Ronnie Hotdogs
Other than the fact we keep having to resort to it every 10 years to sort sh*t out, yeah, you’re dead right.
Re: Labour Watch
Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2020 10:33 am
by ComeOnYouOs
Millennial Snowflake wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 10:28 am
Why can’t you old fogies just accept that socialism is an outdated model?
....yeah because capitalism is so good.it caters for ordinary peoples needs really well......NOT
Re: Labour Watch
Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2020 10:42 am
by Eat The Rich
Millennial Snowflake wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 10:28 am
Why can’t you old fogies just accept that socialism is an outdated model?
Old fogie? I'm 40 you cheeky sod!
Re: Labour Watch
Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2020 10:53 am
by Stowaway
Millennial Snowflake wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 10:28 am
Why can’t you old fogies just accept that socialism is an outdated model?
Not sure if you’ve noticed, but a key factor of socialism is very much on display in the country right now, in that the people are actually sort of pulling together as a society and working together for the greater good of everyone. Society works better when everyone is included, like now when people have finally realised that society could probably do without hedge fund managers and recruitment consultants better than it can without dustmen or delivery drivers etc.
Socialism isn’t about penalising the wealthy, it’s about having a fairer more equal society which benefits everyone, as we are now finding out. The tories labelling anyone with a mildly left-wing view as Marxists as a scare tactic at the last GE has left too many people with a warped view of what actual democratic socialism is. Far from it being an outdated model, it’s actually a far better way to run a society, as we’ll hopefully find out in the coming years now that capitalism has taken an absolute hammering this past two months. The massive global recession that will follow the pandemic will give us all a chance for a massive rethink and re-evaluation of what society should actually be.
Re: Labour Watch
Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2020 10:58 am
by Millennial Snowflake
So predictable who the replies were gonna come from
I never said that capitalism was a perfect system. It’s not a binary choice between the two.
The best and fairest societies are those that don’t blindly follow a centuries-old ideology. It should be possible for a left-leaning party to do this without being called Red Tories/centrist traitors etc
Re: Labour Watch
Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2020 11:03 am
by Eat The Rich
Also, let's just clear this up. Unlike Capitalism (an economic model where the means of production are held in private hands) there is no agreed upon definition of Socialism.
The four main conceptions are...
(1) Capitalism plus a welfare state. This is the modern Social Democratic conception of Socialism. They don't mess with the private ownership of the means of production, they merely redistribute a tiny percentage of the surplus produced. The only critique this kind of Socialism is prepared to make of Capitalism is that it leaves its workforce to poor to play its role in the economy.
(2) Capitalism but with key industries and services run by the state. This is the traditional post-war Social-Democratic view of Socialism that the Labour Left keeps alive. This kind of Socialism has a critique of Capitalism; that Capitalism is inefficient at delivering key goods and services and (like the first example) paying workers enough to live on.
(3) Socialism as an entirely new mode of production where the state takes over the whole running (and ownership) of the economy and society. This is the traditional Marxist conception of Socialism. This kind of Socialism is often encapsulated in the famous phrase 'From each according to his ability to each according to is work'.
(4) Socialism as an entirely new mode of production where Capitalist and State are both abolished and workers organise the economy based on their own democratic decisions. Distribution would be based on the maxim 'From according to his ability to each according to his need'.
There are of course many variations on these themes. But I hope I've demonstrated that when you say Socialism is outdated you're not really articulating much.
Re: Labour Watch
Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2020 11:17 am
by Mikero
We can all talk about how things should be in the future until the cows come home but with an establishment based on wealth and priviledge nothing much is going to be done is it?
Mikero
Re: Labour Watch
Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2020 11:23 am
by Currywurst and Chips
It's a shame that so many people on here can't accept party democracy and Keir's mandate. They're doing the Tories job for them and should be ashamed of themselves
Re: Labour Watch
Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2020 11:35 am
by ComeOnYouOs
Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 11:23 am
It's a shame that so many people on here can't accept party democracy and Keir's mandate. They're doing the Tories job for them and should be ashamed of themselves
You Labour centrists are a joke. You and your ilk did nothing but undermine Corbyn when he was elected leader, twice, yet all of a sudden you are saying we should accept Starmer.
You lot didnt accept Corbyn, so why should us lefties accept Starmer?
