Independent Leyton Orient Forum

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 8:36 pm For the first 39½ years of Israeli occupation, Hamas did not exist. They formed in December 1987, in Gaza
Hamas is not, and has never been in the West Bank, yet Israelis have murdered over 5,000 Palestinians since 2008, in the West Bank
These are facts, source is UN.
This conflict didn't start on 7th October. International law states that an occupied people can fight back in any way they like, including violent means.
No one in here would like to be a Palestinian in Gaza or West Bank. Their lives are horrendous.

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 8:36 pm For the first 39½ years of Israeli occupation, Hamas did not exist. They formed in December 1987, in Gaza
Hamas is not, and has never been in the West Bank, yet Israelis have murdered over 5,000 Palestinians since 2008, in the West Bank
These are facts, source is UN.
This conflict didn't start on 7th October. International law states that an occupied people can fight back in any way they like, including violent means.
No one in here would like to be a Palestinian in Gaza or West Bank. Their lives are horrendous.

spen666 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 10:02 pm

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 8:36 pm For the first 39½ years of Israeli occupation, Hamas did not exist. They formed in December 1987, in Gaza
Hamas is not, and has never been in the West Bank, yet Israelis have murdered over 5,000 Palestinians since 2008, in the West Bank
These are facts, source is UN.
This conflict didn't start on 7th October. International law states that an occupied people can fight back in any way they like, including violent means.
No one in here would like to be a Palestinian in Gaza or West Bank. Their lives are horrendous.

Could you assist me by pointing me to the UN report that confirms Israel have murdered 5000 Palestinians since 2008. I'm struggling to find any UN source that says Israel has MURDERED 5000 Palestinians since 2008

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 10:00 pm

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 8:36 pm For the first 39½ years of Israeli occupation, Hamas did not exist. They formed in December 1987, in Gaza
Hamas is not, and has never been in the West Bank, yet Israelis have murdered over 5,000 Palestinians since 2008, in the West Bank
These are facts, source is UN.
This conflict didn't start on 7th October. International law states that an occupied people can fight back in any way they like, including violent means.
No one in here would like to be a Palestinian in Gaza or West Bank. Their lives are horrendous.

Do you support Hamas?

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 10:21 pm

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 10:00 pm

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 8:36 pm For the first 39½ years of Israeli occupation, Hamas did not exist. They formed in December 1987, in Gaza
Hamas is not, and has never been in the West Bank, yet Israelis have murdered over 5,000 Palestinians since 2008, in the West Bank
These are facts, source is UN.
This conflict didn't start on 7th October. International law states that an occupied people can fight back in any way they like, including violent means.
No one in here would like to be a Palestinian in Gaza or West Bank. Their lives are horrendous.

Do you support Hamas?

No. Absolutely not

Neptune's Spear wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 12:01 am

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 10:21 pm

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 10:00 pm
Do you support Hamas?

No. Absolutely not

He would say that wouldn't he

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 12:19 am

Neptune's Spear wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 12:01 am

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 10:21 pm

No. Absolutely not

He would say that wouldn't he

I wouldn't say that is it wasn't true. If I supported Hamas I'd say so.
I don't support them, so I said so

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 10:18 pm

spen666 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 10:02 pm

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 8:36 pm For the first 39½ years of Israeli occupation, Hamas did not exist. They formed in December 1987, in Gaza
Hamas is not, and has never been in the West Bank, yet Israelis have murdered over 5,000 Palestinians since 2008, in the West Bank
These are facts, source is UN.
This conflict didn't start on 7th October. International law states that an occupied people can fight back in any way they like, including violent means.
No one in here would like to be a Palestinian in Gaza or West Bank. Their lives are horrendous.

Could you assist me by pointing me to the UN report that confirms Israel have murdered 5000 Palestinians since 2008. I'm struggling to find any UN source that says Israel has MURDERED 5000 Palestinians since 2008

Ok?

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 12:19 am

Neptune's Spear wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 12:01 am

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 10:21 pm

No. Absolutely not

He would say that wouldn't he

I wouldn't say that is it wasn't true. If I supported Hamas I'd say so.
I don't support them, so I said so

spen666 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 9:28 am

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 10:18 pm

spen666 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 10:02 pm

Could you assist me by pointing me to the UN report that confirms Israel have murdered 5000 Palestinians since 2008. I'm struggling to find any UN source that says Israel has MURDERED 5000 Palestinians since 2008

Ok?

So are you admitting you have made this claim about Israel murdering 5000 Palestinians up and there is no UN source?

Chicken Dhansak wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 8:41 am Keep up Wellin, I was merely commenting about the three, one eyed Jacks on this board who only see the Middle East situation from one direction. Not about the rights and wrongs of this whole bloody mess.
Were you taught comprehension at school.?

Dunners wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 7:20 pm Also, another way of looking at things is this...

Out of the following two options, which one is most likely and realistic to achieve a ceasefire:

1. Demanding a ceasefire immediately from the current state of war.

Or

2. Negotiating a "pause" in hostilities to allow humanitarian aid. With these becoming more frequent and prolonged and normalised.

Anyone who genuinely believes in the first option... Well, enjoy your day out on Saturday.

Anyone who believes it is the second option, no matter how much they may wish it was the first... Well, that's pretty much the plan. And is what US Sec. Blinken is hinting at and is supported by most governments (and Labour).

Anyone seriously agitating for a Labour MP to publicly declare for the first option is either deluded or disingenuous in their true intentions and motivations.

Chicken Dhansak wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 6:28 pm Good post, Dunners. Pity the three stooges on this board can"t, won't or are incapable of positive thinking.

Dunners wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 9:53 am ^ Seriously, I appreciate that it’s always easy to cherry pick morons from any protest group or march to discredit the wider movement. But it sure has been easy these last few weeks.

I have no doubt that most people attending any of these marches are doing so through good intentions. And it is their right to do so and I’m glad that they have not been banned. But the level of ignorance, antisemitism (and the turning of a blind eye to it) and wilful misrepresentation that has been captured has to be a concern.

Firstly, the mobilisation of demonstrations in the immediate aftermath of the Oct 7th attack, while the bodies of dead Israeli’s were still warm, was questionable at the minimum. PSC officers, who are organising this weekend’s march, made public statements at that time even praising Hamas. I mean – WTAF?

The amount of openly hostile, racist and anti-Semitic comments I am hearing and reading across various platforms is way and above anything I have ever encountered before. I can even offer my own personal anecdote.

I know someone who works in a school which is organising a cake sale to raise funds to be directed towards child casualties of this conflict. She has had parents come in and openly demand to know if any of the money will be “going to the Jews”. The word “Jews” being spat out with disgust. In front of other people and children. All of whom did not bat an eyelid but agreed and wanted to know too. It’s normalised.

I know the two are not exactly comparable, but plenty on the left (Max and Owen Jones) have criticised opponents of TRAs (Keef and Helen Joyce) of being bedfellows of extremists. Is this not similar?

Once again, are leftists creating a vacuum that will be gleefully exploited by the far right? Because this is clearly providing fertile territory for those groups.

Something feels very wrong and broken here.

Rich Tea Wellin wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 9:48 am

spen666 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 9:28 am

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 10:18 pm



Ok?

So are you admitting you have made this claim about Israel murdering 5000 Palestinians up and there is no UN source?

Can I ask why you think the word murder isn’t applicable

Joe315 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 1:42 pm
World Health organisation said 150 children a day were being killed in Palestine by Israels bombing.

Joe315 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2023 8:30 pm you do realise most nations have killed children for some absurd reason during their histories ?

Currywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 10:26 am

Joe315 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 1:42 pm
World Health organisation said 150 children a day were being killed in Palestine by Israels bombing.

Joe315 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2023 8:30 pm you do realise most nations have killed children for some absurd reason during their histories ?

Dunners wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 9:53 am ^ Seriously, I appreciate that it’s always easy to cherry pick morons from any protest group or march to discredit the wider movement. But it sure has been easy these last few weeks.

I have no doubt that most people attending any of these marches are doing so through good intentions. And it is their right to do so and I’m glad that they have not been banned. But the level of ignorance, antisemitism (and the turning of a blind eye to it) and wilful misrepresentation that has been captured has to be a concern.

Firstly, the mobilisation of demonstrations in the immediate aftermath of the Oct 7th attack, while the bodies of dead Israeli’s were still warm, was questionable at the minimum. PSC officers, who are organising this weekend’s march, made public statements at that time even praising Hamas. I mean – WTAF?

The amount of openly hostile, racist and anti-Semitic comments I am hearing and reading across various platforms is way and above anything I have ever encountered before. I can even offer my own personal anecdote.

I know someone who works in a school which is organising a cake sale to raise funds to be directed towards child casualties of this conflict. She has had parents come in and openly demand to know if any of the money will be “going to the Jews”. The word “Jews” being spat out with disgust. In front of other people and children. All of whom did not bat an eyelid but agreed and wanted to know too. It’s normalised.

I know the two are not exactly comparable, but plenty on the left (Max and Owen Jones) have criticised opponents of TRAs (Keef and Helen Joyce) of being bedfellows of extremists. Is this not similar?

Once again, are leftists creating a vacuum that will be gleefully exploited by the far right? Because this is clearly providing fertile territory for those groups.

Something feels very wrong and broken here.

Rich Tea Wellin wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 10:34 am
I know it’s not a popular opinion but I’m sticking to my guns here because I’m angry about it.

The constant conflation between Israel and Jews that’s a trap to stop people being able to critique Israel and their actions has had the knock on effect of the average person being unable to separate the two.

Rich Tea Wellin wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 10:34 am
But I don’t think the average person at the school gates would say a comment like that without the constant reminder that Criticism of Israel = criticism of jews and in turn, criticism of jews = criticism of Israel.

Similar thing happened with isis and Muslims.