Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Top of the JES wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 1:05 pm

Chief crazy horse wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 12:33 pm

PoundhillO wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 8:17 am

He was at best a reasonable player, let’s not get carried away.

Yes, a reasonable player. Or maybe just a good player. When talking about Ling the word 'hate' is always used in defence as it supposedly strengthens the argument. So, we don't only have a 'legend' as our Dof, be reminded that he was also a 'great' player. Surely this would call for another statue alongside Laurie Cunningham in Coronation Gardens? (just laughable!)

No one called him a legend or is calling for a statue, but if you want to make up crap to try and justify your position - then tbf we are all used to it.

Calm down. I didn't say people were calling for a statue. That's my suggestion. Secondly, are you again sure that no one has called him a legend??

Ling was a great player, we have not had many better. We have always been a mediocre side with a small fanbase. Expecting us to be challenging for promotion is not really realistic. I think people should be more supportive of a management team doing their best under trying circumstances with very little reward. There is room for criticism obviously but expectations need to be lowered. There is another 23 teams in League 2, not everyone goes up. Up the O's!

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 1:38 pm I saw Ling as a player, and he was see decent, but he never set the place alight.
But as I already said, it's totally irrelevant on how he is as a DOF
He's not a truthful man, and if you want I'll expand on that. He's aggressive, and his workings are flawed. However, he thinks he's God's gift, and we're lucky to have him.
Despite his denials, he interferes in things he shouldn't, he is a negative force in our club.
Now if you like him, that's fine, that's your choice, but most on here now don't like him, and that's their choice.
I accept the owners think he's fantastic and he isn't going to be sacked, but they are letting our club down, in more ways than one
You have your views and the rest of us will have ours

But not only does he think he's God's gift, so does the owner,which has been unfortunate for us. And yes, you also say 'he's been a negative force in our club'. .. Well put.

I know it's a bit out there but I would get Danny Searle in until the end of the season! He worked wanders at both Braintree and Aldershot with little to know budget and got the best out of average players. He also did really well with his recruitment and I know he can't bring anyone in but he could definitely help us and would be better than appointing another manager who is on the merry go round

bigdavelamb wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 2:35 pm Ling was a great player, we have not had many better. We have always been a mediocre side with a small fanbase. Expecting us to be challenging for promotion is not really realistic. I think people should be more supportive of a management team doing their best under trying circumstances with very little reward. There is room for criticism obviously but expectations need to be lowered. There is another 23 teams in League 2, not everyone goes up. Up the O's!

Ling was far from a great player, what drugs are you on.Ling was an average player at best !

When Kenny Jacket was named as manager, I thought whoopee we're going up, I was so saw sure my bet was Just to win the league no place. I thought it was a dead certainty. Now I'm numb, sure losing money won't break my heart, But for Kenny and the club and everyone connected with us, this has shocked me Kenny was the Man. Sorry to see him go, The circumstances with injuries, the squad being short from the beginning all transpired against the club, as I said in my eyes he was the Man, I've never booed the club or team, never left early, but am sad now.

PoundhillO wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 3:57 pm

bigdavelamb wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 2:35 pm Ling was a great player, we have not had many better. We have always been a mediocre side with a small fanbase. Expecting us to be challenging for promotion is not really realistic. I think people should be more supportive of a management team doing their best under trying circumstances with very little reward. There is room for criticism obviously but expectations need to be lowered. There is another 23 teams in League 2, not everyone goes up. Up the O's!

Ling was far from a great player, what drugs are you on.Ling was an average player at best !

Oh sorry I forgot we used to have Zidane and George Best play for the O's silly me

Top of the JES wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 1:23 pm

gshaw wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 1:12 pm Ling as a player, decent
Ling as a manager, good with a promotion to his name
Ling as initial DoF, good in the circumstances
Ling as DoF since promotion to L2, shocking

Did you see much of him as a player? I respect your opinion but you've always struck me as being in your early to mid 20's.

I wish I still was haha, add a decade to that

Actually saw him on videos from the VHS bargain bin from his Swindon days and also live at Orient too. If memory isn't playing tricks on me we also had Craig Maskell around the same time who was ex Swindon too.

In his early days as DoF rebuilding the club he played a huge part in getting LOFC back on its feet and was a positive influence. He was honest and upfront about the limitations of the initial NL squad and the club went out and hired the right kind of man for the job with JE.

However as time gone on and particularly after the loss of JE it's unravelled and it appears from the outside that he's building a bit of an empire he doesn't want to let go of.

bigdavelamb wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 2:35 pm Ling was a great player, we have not had many better. We have always been a mediocre side with a small fanbase. Expecting us to be challenging for promotion is not really realistic. I think people should be more supportive of a management team doing their best under trying circumstances with very little reward. There is room for criticism obviously but expectations need to be lowered. There is another 23 teams in League 2, not everyone goes up. Up the O's!

He wasn’t a ‘great’ player, and he’s a waste of money as a DOF. He’s hindering the club. Sadly he’s way above his station!
Do your homework, we’ve had a lot better since I started supporting the O’s in the 1950’s.
Ask if you want a list.
Expecting us to challenge for promotion was and is realistic.

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 1:38 pm I saw Ling as a player, and he was see decent, but he never set the place alight.
But as I already said, it's totally irrelevant on how he is as a DOF
He's not a truthful man, and if you want I'll expand on that. He's aggressive, and his workings are flawed. However, he thinks he's God's gift, and we're lucky to have him.
Despite his denials, he interferes in things he shouldn't, he is a negative force in our club.
Now if you like him, that's fine, that's your choice, but most on here now don't like him, and that's their choice.
I accept the owners think he's fantastic and he isn't going to be sacked, but they are letting our club down, in more ways than one
You have your views and the rest of us will have ours

What a load of hateful rubbish. Your view isn't based on facts, as usual.

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 8:06 pm

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 1:38 pm I saw Ling as a player, and he was see decent, but he never set the place alight.
But as I already said, it's totally irrelevant on how he is as a DOF
He's not a truthful man, and if you want I'll expand on that. He's aggressive, and his workings are flawed. However, he thinks he's God's gift, and we're lucky to have him.
Despite his denials, he interferes in things he shouldn't, he is a negative force in our club.
Now if you like him, that's fine, that's your choice, but most on here now don't like him, and that's their choice.
I accept the owners think he's fantastic and he isn't going to be sacked, but they are letting our club down, in more ways than one
You have your views and the rest of us will have ours

What a load of hateful rubbish. Your view isn't based on facts, as usual.

You truly are dim. On two occasions, I stated that was my view... My opinion, yet you can't tell that. Try reading it all the way through.
It appears to be the majority view now, so get used to it

But you are making libellous claims, that are NOT opinion, without any proof, such as

Hes not a truthful man
His workings are flawed
He interferes in things he shouldn't

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 9:21 pm But you are making libellous claims, that are NOT opinion, without any proof, such as

Hes not a truthful man
His workings are flawed
He interferes in things he shouldn't

I could write a long drawn out post, showing you why all those things are true, but you know what I can't be bothered. What you think, is not important, at this time

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 10:18 pm

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 9:21 pm But you are making libellous claims, that are NOT opinion, without any proof, such as

Hes not a truthful man
His workings are flawed
He interferes in things he shouldn't

I could write a long drawn out post, showing you why all those things are true, but you know what I can't be bothered. What you think, is not important, at this time

I would be very interested to read that.

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 10:25 pm

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 10:18 pm

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 9:21 pm But you are making libellous claims, that are NOT opinion, without any proof, such as

Hes not a truthful man
His workings are flawed
He interferes in things he shouldn't

I could write a long drawn out post, showing you why all those things are true, but you know what I can't be bothered. What you think, is not important, at this time

I would be very interested to read that.

Ok tomorrow. I'm tired now

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 10:38 pm

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 10:25 pm

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 10:18 pm

I could write a long drawn out post, showing you why all those things are true, but you know what I can't be bothered. What you think, is not important, at this time

I would be very interested to read that.

Ok tomorrow. I'm tired now

Cannae wait furit

Does anyone know what time he gets up?

Any sign of this yet?

My tea's gone cold now.

Ok, I'm here.
None of this is anything you don't know or haven't worked out, but here goes

Ok first I will give your an example of Long being untruthful.
There are a number of examples, but the latest one will do
In the recent interview King did with the Orient Outlook boys, he said very early on in the interview, that he has nothing to do with bringing any players to the club. He didn't bring in players and dump them on Kenny, but Kenny choose all his own players.
Then later on he was asked about individual players brought in during the January window.
When he was asked about Ethan Coleman he said that he'd been after Coleman for 2 years, since he left Reading.
Well 2 years ago Kenny wasn't the manager here, meaning Ling brought Coleman here, but he already said all the players brought in were Kenny's, which is untrue.
There are other examples too, but that one will do as an example.
Next, his workings are flawed. This is easy to illustrate. He reckons he has a great way to choose a manager. I believe he's described it as the long short list, then the short short list, then the final 2 etc etc.
Well this method had produced 5 failures out of 6. That is a flawed system in my book.
As for the last thing, interfering, I'm not taking this any further, because it's speculation. Probably correct, but not certain, so I'm leaving that alone for safety's sake

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 11:23 am Ok, I'm here.
None of this is anything you don't know or haven't worked out, but here goes

Ok first I will give your an example of Long being untruthful.
There are a number of examples, but the latest one will do
In the recent interview King did with the Orient Outlook boys, he said very early on in the interview, that he has nothing to do with bringing any players to the club. He didn't bring in players and dump them on Kenny, but Kenny choose all his own players.
Then later on he was asked about individual players brought in during the January window.
When he was asked about Ethan Coleman he said that he'd been after Coleman for 2 years, since he left Reading.
Well 2 years ago Kenny wasn't the manager here, meaning Ling brought Coleman here, but he already said all the players brought in were Kenny's, which is untrue.
There are other examples too, but that one will do as an example.
Next, his workings are flawed. This is easy to illustrate. He reckons he has a great way to choose a manager. I believe he's described it as the long short list, then the short short list, then the final 2 etc etc.
Well this method had produced 5 failures out of 6. That is a flawed system in my book.
As for the last thing, interfering, I'm not taking this any further, because it's speculation. Probably correct, but not certain, so I'm leaving that alone for safety's sake

Firstly, where you are claiming Ling has said something, could you provide a source such as the time in the podcast he said it, so we can verify it?

Perhaps you misunderstand the workings of recruitment. Do you think a manager just watches a player then decides to try and sign them? I think its more like the manager says 'I need a tough tackling centre mid, who can we get?' Ling then talks with his scouts and other footballing contacts, looks at the budget and this all goes to the the transfer committee and targets are decided on, Ling tries to sign the player by contacting clubs/agents, but the manager signs off on, gets the final say on who is signed. Thats not lying, thats you not understanding the process/football.

Most clubs at our level are going to have a high 'failure' percentage of managers, otherwise we'd be in a higher league. Davis was an emergency appointment and I dont think many were complaining. Justin- great success, obviously. Ross- emergency appointment. Fletcher- failure, but also the club baulked at what he wanted to do and perhaps he was later proved right. Ross- arguably another emergency appointment at first, didnt do bad at all for a rookie and we've had far far worse. Jobi- it was a gamble and it didnt work out, personally didnt agree with it or the RE sacking. Jackett- great on paper, very few complained, except Portsmouth fans who have perhaps been proved right. So that is nowhere near 5 out of 6 failures, imho

I totally lost all confidence in Jackett when he sold Dan Kemp

And I hope he never gets a decent job in football again, he doesn't deserve one.

I'd say the two genuine failures are Davis and Fletcher. But with Davis' record it's not like he was a bad choice. Fletcher though was just a flat out failure from before he was recruited to when he was sacked.

Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 12:40 pm I'd say the two genuine failures are Davis and Fletcher. But with Davis' record it's not like he was a bad choice. Fletcher though was just a flat out failure from before he was recruited to when he was sacked.

And Embleton.

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 12:53 pm

Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 12:40 pm I'd say the two genuine failures are Davis and Fletcher. But with Davis' record it's not like he was a bad choice. Fletcher though was just a flat out failure from before he was recruited to when he was sacked.

And Embleton.

I dunno about that. Embleton first time around was a reasonable enough choice given the circumstances of him taking over. Second time around we just didn't progress as much under his tenure as we'd have preferred. He wasn't particularly inspirational, wasn't going to improve as he went on and worst of all used to touch his face in interviews. He was a poor head coach rather than a disaster. I think people like using emotive words like disaster to try to back their points up when they don't really apply.