Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Dunners wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 4:21 pm

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 3:42 pm

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 1:31 pm Boring

Dunners will love it.

I did.

I do think the term "American imperialism" is misused and misplaced by people when they talk about Bretton Woods, the Plaza Accords and the role of the US across the world. Especially in the context of the aftermath of WW2.

Take Japan as an example. Here was a brutal imperialist regime that wrecked havoc, death and destruction across the territories it invaded. It over-reached itself when it tried to take on the Americans, who subsequently nuked them into unconditional surrender.

And how did they Americans punish the Japanese for their conduct? By providing the global trade and security framework that enabled them (and those other great war losers, the Germans) with the means to trade their way to a level of prosperity beyond what they would have achieved had they actually won the war. Not a bad punishment, that.

Sure, it wasn't a free meal ticket (it was essentially a bribe to prevent further expansion of the Soviets). It wasn't perfect. But why should it be?

And if it was such a bad deal, why have the Japanese negotiated with both the Trump and Biden administrations for closer strategic partnerships to the point where they are now paying the Americans for trade access and to maintain a military presence? It's because they have concluded that, for better or for worse, the Americans are a better bet than any of the other options.

Anyway, I'm not sure any of this historic stuff is going to matter for too much longer.

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 9:55 am

Dunners wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 4:21 pm

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 3:42 pm

Dunners will love it.

I did.

I do think the term "American imperialism" is misused and misplaced by people when they talk about Bretton Woods, the Plaza Accords and the role of the US across the world. Especially in the context of the aftermath of WW2.

Take Japan as an example. Here was a brutal imperialist regime that wrecked havoc, death and destruction across the territories it invaded. It over-reached itself when it tried to take on the Americans, who subsequently nuked them into unconditional surrender.

And how did they Americans punish the Japanese for their conduct? By providing the global trade and security framework that enabled them (and those other great war losers, the Germans) with the means to trade their way to a level of prosperity beyond what they would have achieved had they actually won the war. Not a bad punishment, that.

Sure, it wasn't a free meal ticket (it was essentially a bribe to prevent further expansion of the Soviets). It wasn't perfect. But why should it be?

And if it was such a bad deal, why have the Japanese negotiated with both the Trump and Biden administrations for closer strategic partnerships to the point where they are now paying the Americans for trade access and to maintain a military presence? It's because they have concluded that, for better or for worse, the Americans are a better bet than any of the other options.

Anyway, I'm not sure any of this historic stuff is going to matter for too much longer.

I'm just going to assume you never actually read the article.

Dunners wrote: ↑Fri Jul 14, 2023 12:23 pm It wont be a Chinese-led world. It will be a multi-polar world but the USA will still be the prime heavyweight. China will be a significant power however, albeit one that will be in the throws of demographic collapse.

The Chinese Yuan will not overtake the dollar in terms of global trade. Even the Chinese don't trust the CCP with the Yuan, hence why its trading is so restricted. The dollar may decline in dominance to some extent, but it is certainly not on its way out.

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 14, 2023 12:31 pm

Dunners wrote: ↑Fri Jul 14, 2023 12:23 pm It wont be a Chinese-led world. It will be a multi-polar world but the USA will still be the prime heavyweight. China will be a significant power however, albeit one that will be in the throws of demographic collapse.

The Chinese Yuan will not overtake the dollar in terms of global trade. Even the Chinese don't trust the CCP with the Yuan, hence why its trading is so restricted. The dollar may decline in dominance to some extent, but it is certainly not on its way out.

I hope that's the case because despite its faults I'd still prefer an American lead world .

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 14, 2023 12:31 pm

Dunners wrote: ↑Fri Jul 14, 2023 12:23 pm It wont be a Chinese-led world. It will be a multi-polar world but the USA will still be the prime heavyweight. China will be a significant power however, albeit one that will be in the throws of demographic collapse.

The Chinese Yuan will not overtake the dollar in terms of global trade. Even the Chinese don't trust the CCP with the Yuan, hence why its trading is so restricted. The dollar may decline in dominance to some extent, but it is certainly not on its way out.

I hope that's the case because despite its faults I'd still prefer an American lead world .

Dunners wrote: ↑Fri Jan 12, 2024 9:22 am This could go badly...

OyinbO wrote: ↑Fri Jan 12, 2024 10:24 am China is a threat only insofar as it's insecurity might cause it to lash out. But the depth of their internal problems is such that they will likely have their hands full managing their decline over the rest of this century. In an ageing world concurrently suffering the effects of climate change, their insularity will accelerate their decline relative to the West - our ability to absorb immigration will sustain our populations and dynamism rather better than the totalitarian ethnonationalists in China, Russia, Iran etc can

Dunners wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 1:03 pm Maybe they need some Irish immigrants?

Rich Tea Wellin wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 5:43 pm Why’s death rate up? Lowering of standards, health care, etc…?

Rich Tea Wellin wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 5:43 pm Why’s death rate up? Lowering of standards, health care, etc…?

OyinbO wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 5:19 pm

Dunners wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 1:03 pm Maybe they need some Irish immigrants?

China doesn't do immigration. They seem to prefer genocide.

Anyway - their own population is on course to be roughly half the size it is today by the end of this century.

Rich Tea Wellin wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 5:43 pm Why’s death rate up? Lowering of standards, health care, etc…?