Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Story of O wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:29 am

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:21 am

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:03 am

i clearly showed you someone had broken your mb rules .
Still
not a worry . i only really do it to give you something to do for 5 minutes .

You are misinterpreting the rules. This is why I'm judge and jury on here.

Sounds like a dictatorship

He's probably under the thumb at home, bless 'im.

BoniO wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:26 am

Dohnut wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:23 am

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:46 pm

Pol Pot
Josef Stalin
John wayne Gacy
Theodore Bundy

Are they allowed in Your Team Croissant ?

Within the laws of the land and the rules of the game.

I believe in individual freedom within that framework. The LV video on the Orient website covers the knee issue. Discussion and decision following his abuse. They will discuss again before the Walsall game and may go back to taking the knee.

Totally correct way of dealing with it. Deciding what they wish to do as a group and according to their views. Freedom in action.

Ah, so now you agree with my earlier post that they were making a point by not taking the knee and will probably revert to taking it vs Walsall. Thanks for confirming that you haven't got a clue what you're waffling on about.

My position on this has not changed. Freedom of choice. Which includes freedom to review. Not complex.

But it’s interesting that you accuse me of not knowing what I am waffling on about, yet agree with you,

Think about it. That gave me a real laugh.

Dohnut wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:56 am

BoniO wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:26 am

Dohnut wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:23 am

Within the laws of the land and the rules of the game.

I believe in individual freedom within that framework. The LV video on the Orient website covers the knee issue. Discussion and decision following his abuse. They will discuss again before the Walsall game and may go back to taking the knee.

Totally correct way of dealing with it. Deciding what they wish to do as a group and according to their views. Freedom in action.

Ah, so now you agree with my earlier post that they were making a point by not taking the knee and will probably revert to taking it vs Walsall. Thanks for confirming that you haven't got a clue what you're waffling on about.

My position on this has not changed. Freedom of choice. Which includes freedom to review. Not complex.

But it’s interesting that you accuse me of not knowing what I am waffling on about, yet agree with you,

Think about it. That gave me a real laugh.

Please see your response to my post earlier in this thread (the players have since confirmed I was correct). I wouldn't have thought you could get any dumber but, then again.......... My comment about you waffling on is that you constantly change direction - like a fart in a colander.

BoniO wrote: ↑Mon Oct 11, 2021 6:22 pm
And I'm betting that, having stopped for one week to make a point, that they will be kneeling again going forwards.

Dohnut wrote:
Making a point to whom? A couple of thousand who probably didn’t notice, or care or even know why. Maybe just a local thing within the club. A pointless point! But if it helps within the club, fine. And the point being?

The sharing of the abuse raised awareness more than kneeling ever will.

The sharing of the abuse showed that the taking of the knee is still very much necessary.

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:30 pm The sharing of the abuse raised awareness more than kneeling ever will.

Absolutely!

And I wish some could get away from the mentality that anyone who isn’t in favour of taking the knee is a racialist, for it’s false logic.

EastDerehamO wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:55 pm

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:30 pm The sharing of the abuse raised awareness more than kneeling ever will.

Absolutely!

And I wish some could get away from the mentality that anyone who isn’t in favour of taking the knee is a racialist, for it’s false logic.

Of course.

It’s just those that are booing the gesture that are racist.

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:53 pm The sharing of the abuse showed that the taking of the knee is still very much necessary.

It seems to make very little difference.

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:30 pm The sharing of the abuse raised awareness more than kneeling ever will.

Back in the day it was called grassing.

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 1:01 pm

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:53 pm The sharing of the abuse showed that the taking of the knee is still very much necessary.

It seems to make very little difference.

I've seen that argument in lots of places, including on the LOSC FB page. I've seen comments like "well, kneeling hasn't fixed it has it?"

I don't expect anyone who agrees with kneeling thought racism would go away after a few kneeling sessions tbh. It's an ongoing demonstration that there is a problem, and it needs to be admitted that it exists and then must be addressed. Are you Wumming PW, simply playing "agent provocateur" or just being dumb?

BoniO wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:23 pm

Dohnut wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:56 am

BoniO wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:26 am

Ah, so now you agree with my earlier post that they were making a point by not taking the knee and will probably revert to taking it vs Walsall. Thanks for confirming that you haven't got a clue what you're waffling on about.

My position on this has not changed. Freedom of choice. Which includes freedom to review. Not complex.

But it’s interesting that you accuse me of not knowing what I am waffling on about, yet agree with you,

Think about it. That gave me a real laugh.

Please see your response to my post earlier in this thread (the players have since confirmed I was correct). I wouldn't have thought you could get any dumber but, then again.......... My comment about you waffling on is that you constantly change direction - like a fart in a colander.

BoniO wrote: ↑Mon Oct 11, 2021 6:22 pm
And I'm betting that, having stopped for one week to make a point, that they will be kneeling again going forwards.

Dohnut wrote:
Making a point to whom? A couple of thousand who probably didn’t notice, or care or even know why. Maybe just a local thing within the club. A pointless point! But if it helps within the club, fine. And the point being?

“Maybe just a local thing within the club”. “if it helps within the club, fine”. It was a local thing within the club, it seemed to have helped them as a collective. I got it spot on! It was personal to them. They will chat again before Saturday and may or may not rejoin the taking the knee group. Freedom of choice and I respect that. What ever they choose.

There was no major point being made to the outside world, I doubt most people even knew, nor cared about their choice other than us few.

BoniO wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 1:09 pm

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 1:01 pm

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:53 pm The sharing of the abuse showed that the taking of the knee is still very much necessary.

It seems to make very little difference.

I've seen that argument in lots of places, including on the LOSC FB page. I've seen comments like "well, kneeling hasn't fixed it has it?"

I don't expect anyone who agrees with kneeling thought racism would go away after a few kneeling sessions tbh. It's an ongoing demonstration that there is a problem, and it needs to be admitted that it exists and then must be addressed. Are you Wumming PW, simply playing "agent provocateur" or just being dumb?

Of course racism exists. But I dont know what they hope to realistically achieve by kneeling. Where as LV shared the abuse he was sent, it was widely condemned and Port Vale have addressed the problem by banning the fan. Clear to see it is far more effective than kneeling.

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 1:34 pm

BoniO wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 1:09 pm

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 1:01 pm

It seems to make very little difference.

I've seen that argument in lots of places, including on the LOSC FB page. I've seen comments like "well, kneeling hasn't fixed it has it?"

I don't expect anyone who agrees with kneeling thought racism would go away after a few kneeling sessions tbh. It's an ongoing demonstration that there is a problem, and it needs to be admitted that it exists and then must be addressed. Are you Wumming PW, simply playing "agent provocateur" or just being dumb?

Of course racism exists. But I dont know what they hope to realistically achieve by kneeling. Where as LV shared the abuse he was sent, it was widely condemned and Port Vale have addressed the problem by banning the fan. Clear to see it is far more effective than kneeling.

How many times do people taking the knee and those who support the gesture need to explain to you why they do it and what they hope to achieve before you decide you will understand?

Go on, you tell him Biggsy.

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 2:40 pm

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 1:34 pm

BoniO wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 1:09 pm

I've seen that argument in lots of places, including on the LOSC FB page. I've seen comments like "well, kneeling hasn't fixed it has it?"

I don't expect anyone who agrees with kneeling thought racism would go away after a few kneeling sessions tbh. It's an ongoing demonstration that there is a problem, and it needs to be admitted that it exists and then must be addressed. Are you Wumming PW, simply playing "agent provocateur" or just being dumb?

Of course racism exists. But I dont know what they hope to realistically achieve by kneeling. Where as LV shared the abuse he was sent, it was widely condemned and Port Vale have addressed the problem by banning the fan. Clear to see it is far more effective than kneeling.

How many times do people taking the knee and those who support the gesture need to explain to you why they do it and what they hope to achieve before you decide you will understand?

Please explain.

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 1:34 pm Where as LV shared the abuse he was sent, it was widely condemned and Port Vale have addressed the problem by banning the fan. Clear to see it is far more effective than kneeling.

Have both fans been banned?

Whilst it was widely condemned, there were still lots of replies along the lines of ‘There’s no need for racism but Vig was giving us stick’.

And I don’t know, maybe players could continue to share any racist messages they receive AND take the knee to remind the racists they need to sort themselves out. Just a thought.

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:02 pm

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 2:40 pm

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 1:34 pm
Of course racism exists. But I dont know what they hope to realistically achieve by kneeling. Where as LV shared the abuse he was sent, it was widely condemned and Port Vale have addressed the problem by banning the fan. Clear to see it is far more effective than kneeling.

How many times do people taking the knee and those who support the gesture need to explain to you why they do it and what they hope to achieve before you decide you will understand?

Please explain.

Relentless.

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:18 pm

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 1:34 pm Where as LV shared the abuse he was sent, it was widely condemned and Port Vale have addressed the problem by banning the fan. Clear to see it is far more effective than kneeling.

Have both fans been banned?

Whilst it was widely condemned, there were still lots of replies along the lines of ‘There’s no need for racism but Vig was giving us stick’.

And I don’t know, maybe players could continue to share any racist messages they receive AND take the knee to remind the racists they need to sort themselves out. Just a thought.

Now you're being silly. This is 2021. Everything is an absolute. You can only be one thing at a time - seeing two things as both right or wrong just doesn't happen anymore.

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:18 pm

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 1:34 pm Where as LV shared the abuse he was sent, it was widely condemned and Port Vale have addressed the problem by banning the fan. Clear to see it is far more effective than kneeling.

Have both fans been banned?

Whilst it was widely condemned, there were still lots of replies along the lines of ‘There’s no need for racism but Vig was giving us stick’.

And I don’t know, maybe players could continue to share any racist messages they receive AND take the knee to remind the racists they need to sort themselves out. Just a thought.

I was only aware of the one message.

They could do all manner of things, personally I'd only bother with ones that are effective.

There were two messages, at least, as disclosed on this board.

The fact you weren’t even aware of the second shows Vigaro sharing that message was a waste of time. He shouldn’t bother sharing any others as it’s so ineffective.

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 1:34 pm

BoniO wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 1:09 pm

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 1:01 pm

It seems to make very little difference.

I've seen that argument in lots of places, including on the LOSC FB page. I've seen comments like "well, kneeling hasn't fixed it has it?"

I don't expect anyone who agrees with kneeling thought racism would go away after a few kneeling sessions tbh. It's an ongoing demonstration that there is a problem, and it needs to be admitted that it exists and then must be addressed. Are you Wumming PW, simply playing "agent provocateur" or just being dumb?

Of course racism exists. But I dont know what they hope to realistically achieve by kneeling. Where as LV shared the abuse he was sent, it was widely condemned and Port Vale have addressed the problem by banning the fan. Clear to see it is far more effective than kneeling.

Sharing abusive messages has been going on for some time now and from some big names in football. It too "hasn't fixed the problem" yet. So, following the logic of some, should they stop doing that too as it hasn't worked? Sharing messages, taking the knee all help to keep a focus on the issue. If you're not interested or unaffected you can choose to ignore it but as long as it continues to annoy some of the bigots and racists then I'm all for it.

The concept that it annoys racists is plain daft. They will simply boo, laugh or ignore. Maybe all. Ludicrous to feel it will make them stop and think, let alone change.

Those who do not use racist behaviour are unaffected. Those who are racists will remain unaffected. The knee makes no difference other than allow people to show their disapproval.

If teams take the knee, they are entitled, their free choice. If they don’t, that is their free choice and doesn’t mean they are racist.

Bottom line. It makes no real difference, symbolism. But people must be free to take the knee if they wish.

BoniO wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 4:15 pm

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 1:34 pm

BoniO wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 1:09 pm

I've seen that argument in lots of places, including on the LOSC FB page. I've seen comments like "well, kneeling hasn't fixed it has it?"

I don't expect anyone who agrees with kneeling thought racism would go away after a few kneeling sessions tbh. It's an ongoing demonstration that there is a problem, and it needs to be admitted that it exists and then must be addressed. Are you Wumming PW, simply playing "agent provocateur" or just being dumb?

Of course racism exists. But I dont know what they hope to realistically achieve by kneeling. Where as LV shared the abuse he was sent, it was widely condemned and Port Vale have addressed the problem by banning the fan. Clear to see it is far more effective than kneeling.

Sharing abusive messages has been going on for some time now and from some big names in football. It too "hasn't fixed the problem" yet. So, following the logic of some, should they stop doing that too as it hasn't worked? Sharing messages, taking the knee all help to keep a focus on the issue. If you're not interested or unaffected you can choose to ignore it but as long as it continues to annoy some of the bigots and racists then I'm all for it.

I'm not claiming anything is 'fixed', but at least the offenders more often than not get punished after they are named and shamed.

If they think the knee is achieving something, then carry on.

It actually has the opposite effect than intended. People who are not racist are more determined to not be racist so the conversion rate of non racists into non racists is zero. People who are racists or have racist tendencies are more likely to be racist now. I would put the conversion rate of racists into non racists due to the knee at zero. Non racists into racists. Zero. Non racists into non racists. Zero. Racists into non racists. Zero. Racists into racists. Zero. Actually…I have got muddled up?? Anyway. All this arguing over nothing looking at the results of this study.

Beradogs wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:02 pm It actually has the opposite effect than intended. People who are not racist are more determined to not be racist so the conversion rate of non racists into non racists is zero. People who are racists or have racist tendencies are more likely to be racist now. I would put the conversion rate of racists into non racists due to the knee at zero. Non racists into racists. Zero. Non racists into non racists. Zero. Racists into non racists. Zero. Racists into racists. Zero. Actually…I have got muddled up?? Anyway. All this arguing over nothing looking at the results of this study.

I don't expect any racists to be converted, regret their behaviour, see the light. But if the focus on racism makes them shut the f**k up then that's a positive.