Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 11:36 am

Adz wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:16 am

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:09 am

Kane (and Grealish) excepted, they're all bit part players in their clubs successes rather than the driving force. And Kane (and Grealish) isn't at one of the big clubs.

We're weak at centre half and weak at cdm. Southgate therefore has no choice but to play 2 holding defensive midfielders.

What a crock of sh!t they have not been bit parts, at all.

Bellingham will be the answer to our problems in the middle, just a bit too young at the moment

Not one of them is the main man at their club, Kane and Grealish excluded.

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 11:29 am

Millennial Snowflake wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:54 am

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 9:54 am

This is the inevitable over correction against the absurd expectations we tend to have. Likes of Foden, Mount, Sterling, Stones, Walker, James, Chillwell, Maguire, Henderson and Kane have all been key players in teams that have reached European finals in the last few years. There should be a way you can fashion a team that manages to compensate for the obvious shortcomings in central midfield (though granted I've been saying that all my life).

I get that we are a level below your France or Germany's. But that makes the stodginess of the football even worse in a way. If we aren't going to do anything at these tournaments, we might as well have some fun in the process. 1/3rd of goals scored by an Englishman at a major tournament this summer have been by a Chilean ffs.

Yeah but CM is the hardest area on the pitch to hide weaknesses in. You can get away with it against the lesser sides but deep into tournaments you’re bound to come up against a quality side who can exploit it

Don’t get me wrong I’m not saying we have no chance of winning the thing - we have the attacking talent to cause any teams problems, but they can’t do anything if we can’t get the ball

Except the obvious anomaly of Greece in 2004, I can’t think of any tournament winners - or top sides that have knocked us out - that haven’t had a top class CM. Modric helped Croatia pass us off the park in 2018, Pirlo and Italy passed us to death in 2012, Germany in 2010, even Belgium comfortably had the better of us twice in 2018 too

I agree, but to a certain extent you can counter lacking a top class central midfielder through a slick pressing set up. Liverpool won the champions League with Henderson and Milner as their key CMs. But cause Kane can't really move anymore, we can't press as a team. The gaps when Saka or Sterling pressure the opposition defender on the ball and the next receiver are enormous.

I think there's an argument to be made that going with DCL or Sterling as false 9 would give us a lot more energy and cohesion in pressing the opposition, which would make the lack of a deep lying playmaker less of an issue because you'd smother the opposition.

But all easier said and done. Would take massive cajones for Southgate to drop his top scorer and captain.

Ornchurch wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 11:38 am The only two whose absence has a direct impact on their teams results and performances

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:52 pm

Ornchurch wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 11:38 am The only two whose absence has a direct impact on their teams results and performances

Yep, this is what I'm trying to get at.

Adz wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:42 pm

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:52 pm

Ornchurch wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 11:38 am The only two whose absence has a direct impact on their teams results and performances

Yep, this is what I'm trying to get at.

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/footbal ... ague-title

Do go on...

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:47 pm Sometimes less talented teams who work their bollocks off and play well get good results in derby matches.

A 3-0 win on Tuesday and you’ll all be noshing Southgate off again. It’s a pragmatic England and has been for years. Quite happy with it when it gets you to the semis.

Adz wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:42 pm

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:52 pm

Ornchurch wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 11:38 am The only two whose absence has a direct impact on their teams results and performances

Yep, this is what I'm trying to get at.

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/footbal ... ague-title

Do go on...

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 8:54 pm

Currywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 8:15 pm

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 7:12 pm Another disappointing team by Southgate
Mings dropped, even though he was England's best player against Scotland in a defence that kept a clean sheet.
Foden dropped, but clown Stirling left in.????
Stirling must have something on Southgate, because however useless he is, he never gets dropped
The sooner Southgate goes the better

Moron...I knew they'd be a comment from you.
Shame there was no comment when Stirling missed a sitter, I would have scored.
From someone who's doesn't actually go and watch football..........

Beradogs wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 7:10 pm Not seen us play before. The football was dire but apparently we are usually worse. Two good goals mind and it’s how Italy used to win things. Bore the other team to sleep.

Real Al wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 7:58 pm If only we still played the scintillating football we used to play in tournaments.

BoniO wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 8:05 pm

Real Al wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 7:58 pm If only we still played the scintillating football we used to play in tournaments.

Ha - there's some truth in this of course. We've never been a flair team but I can't recall us ever being so consistently dull to watch. We got a win but I didn't enjoy the game at all. If you want to win at any cost then this is acceptable I guess. I like to watch an exciting game of football and last nights games demonstrated that this is still possible if you set up to play with flair and aggression.

Currywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 8:12 pm

BoniO wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 8:05 pm

Real Al wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 7:58 pm If only we still played the scintillating football we used to play in tournaments.

Ha - there's some truth in this of course. We've never been a flair team but I can't recall us ever being so consistently dull to watch. We got a win but I didn't enjoy the game at all. If you want to win at any cost then this is acceptable I guess. I like to watch an exciting game of football and last nights games demonstrated that this is still possible if you set up to play with flair and aggression.

Mug

WickfordO wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 8:45 pm I get the feeling there are a lot of Max B Gold alias' on this thread. Can't stand England winning.

Real Al wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 7:58 pm If only we still played the scintillating football we used to play in tournaments.