Should ST holders get a refund?

[BoniO]

Look, we've all saved shitloads of money from not going out during lockdown so why not let the O's have some of it?

[Long slender neck]

Didn't need to be, the terms were set out on the website in the season ticket T&Cs:

Games Played Behind Closed Doors

Should any games be designated by either Government or Football Authorities to be played behind closed doors the Club will offer the ability to watch the game via its streaming service to all Season Card Holders in lieu of gaining entry to the Stadium for home league matches.

So terms can just be buried on the website somewhere? I have also not received my card yet. It says if I do not accept the terms I can cancel.

Hardly buried. There was a big paragraph on the season cards page about FAQs with a link to an FAQs page. One of the FAQs was:

WHAT HAPPENS IF ANY HOME GAMES DURING THE 2020/21 SEASON ARE PLAYED BEHIND CLOSED DOORS?

If this situation arises then all Season Card holders will be provided with access to watch home league games on Orient TV. Please view the Terms and Conditions by clicking the link at the bottom of the page.

...and at the bottom of the page is said link to T&Cs.

A link within the answer to a question in an faq, if that's not buried I don't know what is.

[Long slender neck]

Look, we've all saved shitloads of money from not going out during lockdown so why not let the O's have some of it?

Even the Lings?

[tuffers#1]

You must offer a refund to customers if they’ve told you within 14 days of receiving their goods that they want to cancel. They have another 14 days to return the goods once they’ve told you.

You must refund the customer within 14 days of receiving the goods back. They do not have to provide a reason.

They werent purchasing ,
They were Renewing what they already own
There previous seasons seat

No that's not going to wash.

Im afraid it has to .

Its a discounted saeason ticket offer called

Early bird discount reward

Those who buy early get a discount on season tickets
than a , I'll wait to make sure i can get to
enough games ST holder .

Theyd be paying even more

[Long slender neck]

What has an offer got to do with anything?

[BiggsyMalone]

The fair thing for the club would be to reduce the price of thd following season’s ST if they don’t want to issue partial refunds.

If i’d have known they would have done this, then I would have got my refund for last season instead of deferring it to this ST

Why would there be any question of refunds partial or otherwise.
The tickets were sold on basis that if games were BCD then there would be streaming made available and no refunds.

People are getting exactly what they contracted

People should have been able to opt in to the streaming. They’ve taken advantage of ‘loyalty’. I’m not disputing the T’s and C’s but they were not made clear when they took payment. The wording of them also doesn’t make it clear that the streaming will be the only compensation. It alludes that the ‘free streaming’ is a goodwill gesture on the club’s behalf. They could have and should have done many things differently.

[BiggsyMalone]

Look, we've all saved shitloads of money from not going out during lockdown so why not let the O's have some of it?

Yeah, working class people give a £300+ donation to a club owned by a couple of millionaires

[BoniO]

Look, we've all saved shitloads of money from not going out during lockdown so why not let the O's have some of it?

Yeah, working class people give a £300+ donation to a club owned by a couple of millionaires

Why not? I'm sure they've lost more than a few bob during the crisis. We'd be royally fecked if they threw in the towel.

[tuffers#1]

Look, we've all saved shitloads of money from not going out during lockdown so why not let the O's have some of it?

Yeah, working class people give a £300+ donation to a club owned by a couple of millionaires

Who have swallowed the £1.5 million loss our football team has .
2 of them maybe a 3rd .

Im not sure all O's fans would take kindly to being called working class.
It wasnt the sparks or train driver on Tele during covid lockdown
In an O's polo shirt

Only 25% of fans want a refund or partial fans according to the official poll !

[tuffers#1]

What has an offer got to do with anything?

Whats free streaming got to do with it .

A club like Tranmere brink of the prem to non league dont have streamiing
in 20 years
If they ask us we earn a bit of cash .

If we dont have our own streaming its done via EFL

You'd be paying them to watch streamed footy not the O's

[Ronnie Hotdogs]

Look, we've all saved shitloads of money from not going out during lockdown so why not let the O's have some of it?

Yeah, working class people give a £300+ donation to a club owned by a couple of millionaires

Well, yeah.

That's exactly what has happened.

How did people not know this?

[Rich Tea Wellin]

I think people are missing the point. The terms state it, people signed up, yes theres no legal requirement for the club to do anything. No one is going to successfully take them to court.

The point being made is not a legal one, it's a moral one. There's not a right or wrong answer, or an easy answer, but in my opinion, loyal ST holders shouldn't be worse off financially and in the same boat as non ST. I dont think thats unreasonable but understand why the club wouldn't and probably wont do anything.

[Long slender neck]

We'll have to see what happens, if we still can't get to a game in 2021 I think the club should look at doing something.

[tuffers#1]

I dont even think its anything to do with morals or leaglity .

Its some one moaning for the sake of moaning .

If you want to be bury next year
All season ticket holders next year
Dont buy one .

then plan the rest of your life around what to do on saturdays with no football.

Turn up if you want or dont .

There might be a club here there might not be .

Then the working class lad who spends £300 sovs can
Find something else to moan about .

I hope they still come on here though becasue ill miss the wind ups
If they dont .

[Ronnie Hotdogs]

I think people are missing the point. The terms state it, people signed up, yes theres no legal requirement for the club to do anything. No one is going to successfully take them to court.

The point being made is not a legal one, it's a moral one. There's not a right or wrong answer, or an easy answer, but in my opinion, loyal ST holders shouldn't be worse off financially and in the same boat as non ST. I dont think thats unreasonable but understand why the club wouldn't and probably wont do anything.

There is no moral issue either.

The club couldn't have made the position any clearer.

[BoniO]

The owners decided to put their money into the club for whatever reasons but I doubt, very much, that they saw it as a "get rich quick" scheme. They'd have to be some kind of idiots to think that and there's plenty of evidence from other clubs going under to show just how unlikely this would be the outcome.

Then Covid comes along and knocks everything for six. They're affected like everyone else. Sure they've got more money than most to fall back on but I'd wager that both Kent and Nigel have suffered personal losses due to Covid. No violins needed, but this is probably true.

We know the O's lost an additional £1.5m due to covid - and that's probably still rising. The owners are having to pick up the tab.

If I was one of the owners, I'd hope to see a reciprocal commitment to the club from the fans. If that commitment from the fans wasn't there I'd be seriously questioning why I was bothering to sink my money into the club. With regard to ST sales, the fans have demonstrated a strong level of commitment and I'm just one who is happy to have done that. If all I get to see this season is streamed games then so be it. Add to this that it was clear what the situation was before buying a ST and I really can't see why anyone would be considering refunds, period.

[tuffers#1]

Nigel sold his boat
Its what you do in tough times
You sell the valuables to keep
Cash fluidity ,

Like countries & there Gold .
Buy it in the good times
Flog it in the bad .

[Ronnie Hotdogs]

The owners decided to put their money into the club for whatever reasons but I doubt, very much, that they saw it as a "get rich quick" scheme. They'd have to be some kind of idiots to think that and there's plenty of evidence from other clubs going under to show just how unlikely this would be the outcome.

Then Covid comes along and knocks everything for six. They're affected like everyone else. Sure they've got more money than most to fall back on but I'd wager that both Kent and Nigel have suffered personal losses due to Covid. No violins needed, but this is probably true.

We know the O's lost an additional £1.5m due to covid - and that's probably still rising. The owners are having to pick up the tab.

If I was one of the owners, I'd hope to see a reciprocal commitment to the club from the fans. If that commitment from the fans wasn't there I'd be seriously questioning why I was bothering to sink my money into the club. With regard to ST sales, the fans have demonstrated a strong level of commitment and I'm just one who is happy to have done that. If all I get to see this season is streamed games then so be it. Add to this that it was clear what the situation was before buying a ST and I really can't see why anyone would be considering refunds, period.

We all know why Nigel put his money into the club. He’s a fan.

We don’t know why Kent did. Nor do we know why the other unknown investors have put their money in.

How do you know that they’ve suffered personal losses because of Covid? Lots of wealthy people are doing very well out of this. (Lots aren’t as well, and want us proles back to work so we can start making them money again, that’s also true).

[BiggsyMalone]

How much of their own money did they put in to the club?

[Dunners]

I think people are missing the point. The terms state it, people signed up, yes theres no legal requirement for the club to do anything. No one is going to successfully take them to court.

The point being made is not a legal one, it's a moral one. There's not a right or wrong answer, or an easy answer, but in my opinion, loyal ST holders shouldn't be worse off financially and in the same boat as non ST. I dont think thats unreasonable but understand why the club wouldn't and probably wont do anything.

There is no moral issue either.

The club couldn't have made the position any clearer.

Actually, there is a moral issue; it's about the sanctity of the concept of a promise. Or, in other words, contractual terms and conditions. It's one of the key pillars on which modern civilisation is built. When people think it's okay to pick and chose which terms they should accept after they have agreed to something, that leads to chaos and anarchy. Or multiple pages of pointless whining on a message board. One or the other.

PS. Someone should tell the government this.

[tuffers#1]

How much of their own money did they put in to the club?

Why dont you ask them ?

[BoniO]

The owners decided to put their money into the club for whatever reasons but I doubt, very much, that they saw it as a "get rich quick" scheme. They'd have to be some kind of idiots to think that and there's plenty of evidence from other clubs going under to show just how unlikely this would be the outcome.

Then Covid comes along and knocks everything for six. They're affected like everyone else. Sure they've got more money than most to fall back on but I'd wager that both Kent and Nigel have suffered personal losses due to Covid. No violins needed, but this is probably true.

We know the O's lost an additional £1.5m due to covid - and that's probably still rising. The owners are having to pick up the tab.

If I was one of the owners, I'd hope to see a reciprocal commitment to the club from the fans. If that commitment from the fans wasn't there I'd be seriously questioning why I was bothering to sink my money into the club. With regard to ST sales, the fans have demonstrated a strong level of commitment and I'm just one who is happy to have done that. If all I get to see this season is streamed games then so be it. Add to this that it was clear what the situation was before buying a ST and I really can't see why anyone would be considering refunds, period.

We all know why Nigel put his money into the club. He’s a fan.

We don’t know why Kent did. Nor do we know why the other unknown investors have put their money in.

How do you know that they’ve suffered personal losses because of Covid? Lots of wealthy people are doing very well out of this. (Lots aren’t as well, and want us proles back to work so we can start making them money again, that’s also true).

I said "I'd wager they suffered losses", I didn't state that I knew. Try again.

As for why investors put money in, if it really is purely to make a fast buck then they're even dumber than Thor........

[Ronnie Hotdogs]

I think people are missing the point. The terms state it, people signed up, yes theres no legal requirement for the club to do anything. No one is going to successfully take them to court.

The point being made is not a legal one, it's a moral one. There's not a right or wrong answer, or an easy answer, but in my opinion, loyal ST holders shouldn't be worse off financially and in the same boat as non ST. I dont think thats unreasonable but understand why the club wouldn't and probably wont do anything.

There is no moral issue either.

The club couldn't have made the position any clearer.

Actually, there is a moral issue; it's about the sanctity of the concept of a promise. Or, in other words, contractual terms and conditions. It's one of the key pillars on which modern civilisation is built. When people think it's okay to pick and chose which terms they should accept after they have agreed to something, that leads to chaos and anarchy. Or multiple pages of pointless whining on a message board. One or the other.

PS. Someone should tell the government this.

[Ronnie Hotdogs]

The owners decided to put their money into the club for whatever reasons but I doubt, very much, that they saw it as a "get rich quick" scheme. They'd have to be some kind of idiots to think that and there's plenty of evidence from other clubs going under to show just how unlikely this would be the outcome.

Then Covid comes along and knocks everything for six. They're affected like everyone else. Sure they've got more money than most to fall back on but I'd wager that both Kent and Nigel have suffered personal losses due to Covid. No violins needed, but this is probably true.

We know the O's lost an additional £1.5m due to covid - and that's probably still rising. The owners are having to pick up the tab.

If I was one of the owners, I'd hope to see a reciprocal commitment to the club from the fans. If that commitment from the fans wasn't there I'd be seriously questioning why I was bothering to sink my money into the club. With regard to ST sales, the fans have demonstrated a strong level of commitment and I'm just one who is happy to have done that. If all I get to see this season is streamed games then so be it. Add to this that it was clear what the situation was before buying a ST and I really can't see why anyone would be considering refunds, period.

We all know why Nigel put his money into the club. He’s a fan.

We don’t know why Kent did. Nor do we know why the other unknown investors have put their money in.

How do you know that they’ve suffered personal losses because of Covid? Lots of wealthy people are doing very well out of this. (Lots aren’t as well, and want us proles back to work so we can start making them money again, that’s also true).

I said "I'd wager they suffered losses", I didn't state that I knew. Try again.

As for why investors put money in, if it really is purely to make a fast buck then they're even dumber than Thor........

I'm sure it wasn't to make a 'fast buck'.

But I'm pretty sure Kent hasn't spunked millions just to have his ego massaged by a load of fat bald fifty something Brits.

[BoniO]

Who fully knows why Kent invested tbh. It may be that he truly loves the game and would love to take us up through the divisions. If I had the money I could see the fun in doing that.