Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Cheshunto wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:01 pm I wonder what the result would have been if we had started with 4-4-2.

The same.

We were still getting torn apart second half, they could have had another 3 goals. It was only the last 10 minutes or so we put anything together.

eagwgw wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:13 pm There is no dogfight this season, there is only one relegation place and already we are clear of that by some way. It'd take a massive loss of form to get there, I think with our 4-3-3 we will still be too much for some of the weaker sides.

That's a dangerous mindset to get in, the one relegation spot can easily lend a false sense of security. A few more performances like today and the heads can really start to drop, just remember some of the dross we lost to at NL level under Davis to see evidence of that.

If we get sucked into a scrap with the worst sides it doesn't become about quality but guts and personality to slog results out. I wouldn't be confident in Ross coming through that kind of pressure.

eagwgw wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:13 pm There is no dogfight this season, there is only one relegation place and already we are clear of that by some way. It'd take a massive loss of form to get there, I think with our 4-3-3 we will still be too much for some of the weaker sides.

I disagree with him retaining his old job if it goes tits up though. If we go on a winless streak and concede lots of goals, isn't he more the problem than the solution?

By having him in a protected role like this narrows down the potential managers we can get: for a start, some guys might want their own assistant, and secondly, it seems that if he does go, we need a defensive specialist, as that seems to be the part of the game where we are most lacking.

No coincidence that we immediately tightened up when Justin came in, but what if there was a good manager with a track record in this League with a long-time assistant who was defensively good?

This is the system we have implemented so that if the head coach goes, we don’t have to replace everyone and start again. They’ve said it nmultiple times.

RedO wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:17 pm

Cheshunto wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:01 pm I wonder what the result would have been if we had started with 4-4-2.

The same.

We were still getting torn apart second half, they could have had another 3 goals. It was only the last 10 minutes or so we put anything together.

The point is if we'd started off asking some questions of Swindon it gives them something to think about and keeps the ball from coming straight back.

When Clay threw his arms up in the air after having no forward options 10-15 mins in you know it's going to be a long day.

Clay always throws his arms around and sulks.

Could be a lesson for our future signings, quality has to be the main thing we go for.

Lloyd Isgrove was a free agent, only got a one-year deal at Swindon, he would have been a realistic signing for us.

Was quality today, a bit like Coxy in that he wasn't flashy with a load of tricks but clearly very effective with good end product.

He has 6 assists in 7 games now (a bit of a fluke for the own goal, granted).
James Brophy has 6 assists in 77 games for us, most of these in the League below. Let that sink in. That was reason why they were not arsed he left.

Instead we gave a one-year deal to an injured Dayton.

Same things for the strikers, our reserve two are Alabi and Harrold, mainly out of sentiment. Conor Wilkinson was not really quality, bad League scoring record and hit a hot spell at Dagenham, so a gamble. Supposedly we are paying him League One wages, knowing the way were gonna play him would loaning someone like Eoin Doyle been a better partner for Angol?

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:52 pm The formation and tactics were dreadful. After Ling’s good tackle at the start, I thought this might be the game where he turned it around but no. He was dreadful. He looked absolutely knackered after 10 mins. Brophy playing as a 10 is a waste of his talent. The subs were awful. Either the wrong person came on or off. Josh Wright is an abomination of a player, offers nothing. I feel sorry for Wilkinson, Angol and Dennis. I feel sorry for Marsh, he is the player Orient need in midfield and he hasn’t had a chance. To quote the knobhead near me, SORT IT OUT.

Apparently the idiot reverted to a back 5 today.
The bloke is a total idiot.
You would have thought he learnt his lesson by now , clearly not.
Time to get rid of this joker and get a proper manager in
If they stick with this idiot then expect gates to drop below 5000.⁷

What about playing 343 as we have tryes any f*cking other formation going. I would love orient to go back to 442 or 451 it can only get worse

Frogger wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:07 pm Really like RE and I think he is a great coach, he needs help and fast. Would like him to remain at the club but we need experienced man at the helm.

Rubbish.
Wheres the evidence this bloke is a good coach?

2 soft goals to be 3 up

1st should of been closed down by anybody after the block but nothing .
2nd a massive deflection took it away from brill

Clay needs to be dropped quick time . Totally lacking in pace or ability. At 1 point stood there looking around as if it was all passing him by & didnt know whaere to go
Need to pick a system & stay with it rather than swithcing between 5 @ the back or 4 or 3 .
Just confuses the life out of defenders & leaves them arguing with each other.

3rd goal the went right through the heart of us.
2nd half better but had Swindon slowed down having the 3 points in the bag.

Clay out , flat back 4 & stay with it
Need to start with a forward thinking midfield , not a defensive one.

Swindon would have beat us 442 434 532 352
System doesnt matter when a better team comes to town. Swindon are agood side but not that good .
Wull be a play off sude at most.

The apologists will say we won the National League with Ross as assistant.
That seems to be to be like saying that James Alabi is a good striker because he also won the National League.
Also ignores that he was terrible under Steve Davis. Personally I think assistants are ten-a-penny at this level, but good managers are rare. You don't often see bigger clubs poaching assistants.

Let's not conflate team success with individual competence. In any case my feeling is that Edinburgh preferred Danny Webb more, Webb was not in the first team picture when Justin arrived, by the end he was virtual joint assistant with Ross.

eagwgw wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:14 pm The apologists will say we won the National League with Ross as assistant.
That seems to be to be like saying that James Alabi is a good striker because he also won the National League.
Also ignores that he was terrible under Steve Davis. Personally I think assistants are ten-a-penny at this level, but good managers are rare. You don't often see bigger clubs poaching assistants.

Let's not conflate team success with individual competence. In any case my feeling is that Edinburgh preferred Danny Webb more, Webb was not in the first team picture when Justin arrived, by the end he was virtual joint assistant with Ross.

There are a few apologists making excuses for today’s woeful performance and defeat

Well he is Lings mate.
Bring a new manager in proto.
PHIL Parkinson for me.

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:12 pm 2 soft goals to be 3 up

1st should of been closed down by anybody after the block but nothing .
2nd a massive deflection took it away from brill

Clay needs to be dropped quick time . Totally lacking in pace or ability. At 1 point stood there looking around as if it was all passing him by & didnt know whaere to go
Need to pick a system & stay with it rather than swithcing between 5 @ the back or 4 or 3 .
Just confuses the life out of defenders & leaves them arguing with each other.

3rd goal the went right through the heart of us.
2nd half better but had Swindon slowed down having the 3 points in the bag.

Clay out , flat back 4 & stay with it
Need to start with a forward thinking midfield , not a defensive one.

Swindon would have beat us 442 434 532 352
System doesnt matter when a better team comes to town. Swindon are agood side but not that good .
Wull be a play off sude at most.

I can’t believe Swindon will only be a play off side if they perform like that every week. They were in absolute control for the full 90 minutes. Even their substitutes that came on were better than our first choice players.

I see the tide has turned with Clay and people are digging him out but I’m not having that. Wright is doing far less than him. He’s supposed to be the baller, the one making us tick. How many times did he get the ball off the back 3 today and get things going?

RedO wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:28 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:12 pm 2 soft goals to be 3 up

1st should of been closed down by anybody after the block but nothing .
2nd a massive deflection took it away from brill

Clay needs to be dropped quick time . Totally lacking in pace or ability. At 1 point stood there looking around as if it was all passing him by & didnt know whaere to go
Need to pick a system & stay with it rather than swithcing between 5 @ the back or 4 or 3 .
Just confuses the life out of defenders & leaves them arguing with each other.

3rd goal the went right through the heart of us.
2nd half better but had Swindon slowed down having the 3 points in the bag.

Clay out , flat back 4 & stay with it
Need to start with a forward thinking midfield , not a defensive one.

Swindon would have beat us 442 434 532 352
System doesnt matter when a better team comes to town. Swindon are agood side but not that good .
Wull be a play off sude at most.

I can’t believe Swindon will only be a play off side if they perform like that every week. They were in absolute control for the full 90 minutes. Even their substitutes that came on were better than our first choice players.

I see the tide has turned with Clay and people are digging him out but I’m not having that. Wright is doing far less than him. He’s supposed to be the baller, the one making us tick. How many times did he get the ball off the back 3 today and get things going?

I wouldn't disagree with the Wright comment but Clay has been short all season .

At points in the first half Swindon parked up a 5 -4-1 formation which nullified anything we could have began to try.
Clay was miserablre Coulson was ripping Marv, Marv was ripping ling Joe W was a loss , wright & Broph were annonymous .

Swindon are a pacy side but take 2 flukey goals away & we knick a point.
Easy to say when we are 3 down i know but you get what i mean hopefully.

Sooner we Have Jobi & Dayton back in contention
the better.

Bergen wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:52 pm First time of the season that our opponents had the ball more than us.

Average so far;
57 - 43

Today was:
38 - 62

If memory serves under Davis our possession statistics were positive. Half the game passing it across the back then to the keeper. I’m more interested in what we do in possession rather than how much we have.

You say 2 flukey goals but when you’re dominating possession like that and constantly testing a defence, you tend to get that ‘luck’. The half time score didn’t flatter them in the slightest.

RedO wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:48 pm You say 2 flukey goals but when you’re dominating possession like that and constantly testing a defence, you tend to get that ‘luck’. The half time score didn’t flatter them in the slightest.

Of course it didnt flatter them
But the 1st needs an outfield.player to take responsibilty & charge at the 2nd shot.
The 2nd is just a deflection that wrong foots the keeper.

Don't think the deflection on the second goal changed the direction much. Didn't even notice it til half time when Sky gave it as an own goal. Just slow reactions from our keeper.

Were they flukey when that nailed on goal hit their striker up his arse and bounced away?

Yes, I agree with what your saying when you look at both goals in isolation. But when you look at the 45 minutes as a whole, that’s what happens.

Also, we have Brill in goal.

Tom Chance wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:06 pm Don't think the deflection on the second goal changed the direction much. Didn't even notice it til half time when Sky gave it as an own goal. Just slow reactions from our keeper.

Deflection or not, there is no way that should have ended up in the net. Abysmal goalkeeping.

UpminsterO wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:07 pm I see things a bit different -
The expenditure on current injured players may be underwritten by an insurance company that the club may of taken out on all their players - a bit like any business ensuring the elements that make up a business model. That assumption seems realistic the " loss" being minimised.
Further when any company has a reputation of treating staff much better than its competitors then it can attract staff in preference to other clubs - it's called brand enhancement.

That sounds like a nice way of saying we're a soft touch for players with a dodgy injury record to get an easy payday

Dayton particularly we seem to have given a year's contract knowing he'll play about 2-3 months if we're lucky.

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:50 pm

Howling Mad Murdock wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:29 pm

PoundhillO wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2019 5:58 pm

Totally agree, he needs to step down immediately to save himself and the club any further embarrassment, he is clearly just not up to the job.

Now we come to the payoff.

''Now we come to the payoff.'' Apparently NOT !!
The agreement from what i read is that if R.E does not cut the mustard as interim manager, he then goes back into his old job.
Also any new manager who might come in, has to work with the existing coaches already in place, rather than bringing in his own backroom staff. Could be a bit uncomfortable that for any new manager having to accept, especially as one of the coaches he has to work with, has been trying to get the job himself.

JE came in & worked with the coaching staff here.

We are league 2
We're not going to let a new boss.come in &
bring in his own staff.

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:36 pm

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:50 pm

Howling Mad Murdock wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:29 pm

Now we come to the payoff.

''Now we come to the payoff.'' Apparently NOT !!
The agreement from what i read is that if R.E does not cut the mustard as interim manager, he then goes back into his old job.
Also any new manager who might come in, has to work with the existing coaches already in place, rather than bringing in his own backroom staff. Could be a bit uncomfortable that for any new manager having to accept, especially as one of the coaches he has to work with, has been trying to get the job himself.

JE came in & worked with the coaching staff here.

We are league 2
We're not going to let a new boss.come in &
bring in his own staff.

JE did, yes we all know that, but many other good candidates may well be put off by having those pre-conditions.

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:49 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:36 pm

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:50 pm
''Now we come to the payoff.'' Apparently NOT !!
The agreement from what i read is that if R.E does not cut the mustard as interim manager, he then goes back into his old job.
Also any new manager who might come in, has to work with the existing coaches already in place, rather than bringing in his own backroom staff. Could be a bit uncomfortable that for any new manager having to accept, especially as one of the coaches he has to work with, has been trying to get the job himself.

JE came in & worked with the coaching staff here.

We are league 2
We're not going to let a new boss.come in &
bring in his own staff.

JE did, yes we all know that, but many other good candidates may well be put off by having those pre-conditions.

I doubt it .
They'll be happy to be back in football
A right hand man may be acceptable but they can not
be expected to bring in a complete coaching team.