Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Posted: **Thu Jun 27, 2024 7:45 am**

Ski Sunday wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2024 7:40 am
Hoover Attack wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2024 6:55 am
Ski Sunday wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2024 2:16 am He'd have signed for anyone who'd have offered him a wage increase
What’s wrong with that?
Bristol Rovers are hardly Newcastle Utd, we should have matched their offer

If he was in Agyei's role (or similarly El Miz in midfield) then yes you push the boat out but for a someone who RW (rightly) sees as 20 mins sub material no, save the budget for strengthening the starting positions.

Posted: **Thu Jun 27, 2024 9:06 am**

gshaw wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2024 7:45 am
Ski Sunday wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2024 7:40 am
Hoover Attack wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2024 6:55 am

What’s wrong with that?
Bristol Rovers are hardly Newcastle Utd, we should have matched their offer
If he was in Agyei's role (or similarly El Miz in midfield) then yes you push the boat out but for a someone who RW (rightly) sees as 20 mins sub material no, save the budget for strengthening the starting positions.

A few points.
The start of last season you had already written him off and said he should be sent out on loan to a Division 2 club, He ended up as a regular starter and finished the season as Os top goal scorer. You and others make a big deal about his ball control skills, trapping the ball etc, but completely ignore his goal scoring ability, He has a good fitness record, unlike some of the other forwards on our books last season, and rarely missed games due to injuries ( long may that continue for him ! ) Despite this insistence that he was purely an option to come off the subs bench, in actual fact he was a regular starter in many games. You and others like to focus on what he could not do but ignore what he could do as in working very hard off the ball and putting defenders under pressure and most important of all , the most prized asset of all for a footballer, the ability to be in the right place at the right time to score vital goals, a natural goalscorer in fact, so hard to find, something that is hard to coach into a footballer. I wish him all the best at his new club Bristol Rovers and it will be hard for the Os to find someone to replace him. Lastly I dont think Richie will be at all pleased that Ruel has left the club like this. Seems to me that quite likely that Rovers were able to offer Ruel a better contract than the Os so cant blame the lad for accepting the chance to move, footballers life is a short one so they have to make the best of it while they can. Time will tell as to how well he will do at Rovers and who Os will get to replace him.

Posted: **Thu Jun 27, 2024 9:43 am**

Good luck to the guy. I hope it works out for him.

Posted: **Thu Jun 27, 2024 9:50 am**

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2024 9:06 am
gshaw wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2024 7:45 am
Ski Sunday wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2024 7:40 am
Bristol Rovers are hardly Newcastle Utd, we should have matched their offer
If he was in Agyei's role (or similarly El Miz in midfield) then yes you push the boat out but for a someone who RW (rightly) sees as 20 mins sub material no, save the budget for strengthening the starting positions.
A few points.
The start of last season you had already written him off and said he should be sent out on loan to a Division 2 club, He ended up as a regular starter and finished the season as Os top goal scorer. You and others make a big deal about his ball control skills, trapping the ball etc, but completely ignore his goal scoring ability, He has a good fitness record, unlike some of the other forwards on our books last season, and rarely missed games due to injuries ( long may that continue for him ! ) Despite this insistence that he was purely an option to come off the subs bench, in actual fact he was a regular starter in many games. You and others like to focus on what he could not do but ignore what he could do as in working very hard off the ball and putting defenders under pressure and most important of all , the most prized asset of all for a footballer, the ability to be in the right place at the right time to score vital goals, a natural goalscorer in fact, so hard to find, something that is hard to coach into a footballer. I wish him all the best at his new club Bristol Rovers and it will be hard for the Os to find someone to replace him. Lastly I dont think Richie will be at all pleased that Ruel has left the club like this. Seems to me that quite likely that Rovers were able to offer Ruel a better contract than the Os so cant blame the lad for accepting the chance to move, footballers life is a short one so they have to make the best of it while they can. Time will tell as to how well he will do at Rovers and who Os will get to replace him.

I think if RW was desperate to keep him then we would have. I don’t think Bristol Rovers are a club that could financially out muscle us. That’s how I see it.

Posted: **Thu Jun 27, 2024 10:10 am**

I am sorry to see him go, wish him well, but I do think he is replaceable – time will tell on who comes in.
Money no doubt a major factor.
Have got the impression at times he feels he’s not been played in his best position, maybe he feels he’ll have better opportunities at Rovers too.

Posted: **Thu Jun 27, 2024 10:29 am**

DrWindy wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2024 9:50 am
Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2024 9:06 am
gshaw wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2024 7:45 am

If he was in Agyei's role (or similarly El Miz in midfield) then yes you push the boat out but for a someone who RW (rightly) sees as 20 mins sub material no, save the budget for strengthening the starting positions.
A few points.
The start of last season you had already written him off and said he should be sent out on loan to a Division 2 club, He ended up as a regular starter and finished the season as Os top goal scorer. You and others make a big deal about his ball control skills, trapping the ball etc, but completely ignore his goal scoring ability, He has a good fitness record, unlike some of the other forwards on our books last season, and rarely missed games due to injuries ( long may that continue for him ! ) Despite this insistence that he was purely an option to come off the subs bench, in actual fact he was a regular starter in many games. You and others like to focus on what he could not do but ignore what he could do as in working very hard off the ball and putting defenders under pressure and most important of all , the most prized asset of all for a footballer, the ability to be in the right place at the right time to score vital goals, a natural goalscorer in fact, so hard to find, something that is hard to coach into a footballer. I wish him all the best at his new club Bristol Rovers and it will be hard for the Os to find someone to replace him. Lastly I dont think Richie will be at all pleased that Ruel has left the club like this. Seems to me that quite likely that Rovers were able to offer Ruel a better contract than the Os so cant blame the lad for accepting the chance to move, footballers life is a short one so they have to make the best of it while they can. Time will tell as to how well he will do at Rovers and who Os will get to replace him.
I think if RW was desperate to keep him then we would have. I don’t think Bristol Rovers are a club that could financially out muscle us. That’s how I see it.

As to ''I think if RW was desperate to keep him then we would have''
Well we can only but guess about what RW thought about all this, I would guess that he wanted to keep his top goal scorer at the club, but much of it surely comes down to the financial budget available for players wages, incoming transfers etc. Seems to me that Ruel was offered a better financial package at Rovers, one that the Os could not better. Time will tell of course but really hope we can get some good forwards in soon and most important, players who can not only perform well but remain with luck fairly injury free.

Posted: **Thu Jun 27, 2024 10:40 am**

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2024 10:29 am
DrWindy wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2024 9:50 am
Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2024 9:06 am

A few points.
The start of last season you had already written him off and said he should be sent out on loan to a Division 2 club, He ended up as a regular starter and finished the season as Os top goal scorer. You and others make a big deal about his ball control skills, trapping the ball etc, but completely ignore his goal scoring ability, He has a good fitness record, unlike some of the other forwards on our books last season, and rarely missed games due to injuries ( long may that continue for him ! ) Despite this insistence that he was purely an option to come off the subs bench, in actual fact he was a regular starter in many games. You and others like to focus on what he could not do but ignore what he could do as in working very hard off the ball and putting defenders under pressure and most important of all , the most prized asset of all for a footballer, the ability to be in the right place at the right time to score vital goals, a natural goalscorer in fact, so hard to find, something that is hard to coach into a footballer. I wish him all the best at his new club Bristol Rovers and it will be hard for the Os to find someone to replace him. Lastly I dont think Richie will be at all pleased that Ruel has left the club like this. Seems to me that quite likely that Rovers were able to offer Ruel a better contract than the Os so cant blame the lad for accepting the chance to move, footballers life is a short one so they have to make the best of it while they can. Time will tell as to how well he will do at Rovers and who Os will get to replace him.
I think if RW was desperate to keep him then we would have. I don’t think Bristol Rovers are a club that could financially out muscle us. That’s how I see it.
As to ''I think if RW was desperate to keep him then we would have''
Well we can only but guess about what RW thought about all this, I would guess that he wanted to keep his top goal scorer at the club, but much of it surely comes down to the financial budget available for players wages, incoming transfers etc. Seems to me that Ruel was offered a better financial package at Rovers, one that the Os could not better. Time will tell of course but really hope we can get some good forwards in soon and most important, players who can not only perform well but remain with luck fairly injury free.

If what you say is true Sid then theoretically on that basis then whoever we bring in will be no better?

Posted: **Thu Jun 27, 2024 10:42 am**

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2024 10:29 am
DrWindy wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2024 9:50 am
Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2024 9:06 am

A few points.
The start of last season you had already written him off and said he should be sent out on loan to a Division 2 club, He ended up as a regular starter and finished the season as Os top goal scorer. You and others make a big deal about his ball control skills, trapping the ball etc, but completely ignore his goal scoring ability, He has a good fitness record, unlike some of the other forwards on our books last season, and rarely missed games due to injuries ( long may that continue for him ! ) Despite this insistence that he was purely an option to come off the subs bench, in actual fact he was a regular starter in many games. You and others like to focus on what he could not do but ignore what he could do as in working very hard off the ball and putting defenders under pressure and most important of all , the most prized asset of all for a footballer, the ability to be in the right place at the right time to score vital goals, a natural goalscorer in fact, so hard to find, something that is hard to coach into a footballer. I wish him all the best at his new club Bristol Rovers and it will be hard for the Os to find someone to replace him. Lastly I dont think Richie will be at all pleased that Ruel has left the club like this. Seems to me that quite likely that Rovers were able to offer Ruel a better contract than the Os so cant blame the lad for accepting the chance to move, footballers life is a short one so they have to make the best of it while they can. Time will tell as to how well he will do at Rovers and who Os will get to replace him.
I think if RW was desperate to keep him then we would have. I don’t think Bristol Rovers are a club that could financially out muscle us. That’s how I see it.
As to ''I think if RW was desperate to keep him then we would have''
Well we can only but guess about what RW thought about all this, I would guess that he wanted to keep his top goal scorer at the club, but much of it surely comes down to the financial budget available for players wages, incoming transfers etc. Seems to me that Ruel was offered a better financial package at Rovers, one that the Os could not better. Time will tell of course but really hope we can get some good forwards in soon and most important, players who can not only perform well but remain with luck fairly injury free.

Of course I agree we don’t know.

My view is we wouldn’t match Rovers terms rather than we couldn’t. TJ signed back on so I certainly believe we can compete. Let’s see who comes in and then we might have a better idea.

Posted: **Thu Jun 27, 2024 10:57 am**

Agreed. I suspect Rovers have overpaid him, giving him a starting players salary when he’s not a starting player.

Good luck to him though and totally understand him taking a better offer. He’d be mad not to.

Posted: **Thu Jun 27, 2024 11:05 am**

No doubt we will get numerous updates about how he is doing from boarders. I often wonder why, if we have so many very wealthy investors, why can't we buy a decent player.

Posted: **Thu Jun 27, 2024 11:18 am**

He did well for us on a number of occasions over the past few seasons and was a decent squad player to have but not worth breaking the bank for and am fairly sanguine about him moving on. Reading between the lines of RW's comments, I reckon he thinks the money we offered was just fine and in line with his value to the side and BR just came up with more - "he's got himself a good contract".

I think he's more than replaceable but ultimately that of course depends on who we actually get in the building.

Posted: **Thu Jun 27, 2024 11:45 am**

EastDerehamO wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2024 10:10 am I am sorry to see him go, wish him well, but I do think he is replaceable – time will tell on who comes in.
Money no doubt a major factor.
Have got the impression at times he feels he’s not been played in his best position, maybe he feels he’ll have better opportunities at Rovers too.

I wonder that he thinks is his best position?

Posted: **Thu Jun 27, 2024 11:48 am**

Proposition Joe wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2024 11:18 am He did well for us on a number of occasions over the past few seasons and was a decent squad player to have but not worth breaking the bank for and am fairly sanguine about him moving on. Reading between the lines of RW's comments, I reckon he thinks the money we offered was just fine and in line with his value to the side and BR just came up with more - "he's got himself a good contract".

I think he's more than replaceable but ultimately that of course depends on who we actually get in the building.

Hope good players come in who can chip in with some goals and remain fairly injury free.
We shall see in the coming season how it all pans out.

Posted: **Thu Jun 27, 2024 11:52 am**

Chicken Dhansak wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2024 11:05 am No doubt we will get numerous updates about how he is doing from boarders. I often wonder why, if we have so many very wealthy investors, why can't we buy a decent player.

Goal scorers are the most highly prized of all football players and thus command the highest wages and transfer fees.
At Leyton Orient, same as most EFL clubs, we have to run on a very tight budget and even then, lose at least a couple of million pounds a year.

Posted: **Thu Jun 27, 2024 11:53 am**

DuvB wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2024 11:45 am
EastDerehamO wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2024 10:10 am I am sorry to see him go, wish him well, but I do think he is replaceable – time will tell on who comes in.
Money no doubt a major factor.
Have got the impression at times he feels he’s not been played in his best position, maybe he feels he’ll have better opportunities at Rovers too.
I wonder that he thinks is his best position?

I would guess playing a number 10 role playing alongside a target man type number 9.

Posted: **Thu Jun 27, 2024 12:17 pm**

Monkey Boy wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2024 10:40 am
Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2024 10:29 am
DrWindy wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2024 9:50 am

I think if RW was desperate to keep him then we would have. I don’t think Bristol Rovers are a club that could financially out muscle us. That’s how I see it.
As to ''I think if RW was desperate to keep him then we would have''
Well we can only but guess about what RW thought about all this, I would guess that he wanted to keep his top goal scorer at the club, but much of it surely comes down to the financial budget available for players wages, incoming transfers etc. Seems to me that Ruel was offered a better financial package at Rovers, one that the Os could not better. Time will tell of course but really hope we can get some good forwards in soon and most important, players who can not only perform well but remain with luck fairly injury free.
If what you say is true Sid then theoretically on that basis then whoever we bring in will be no better?

Goal scorers are the most highly prized of all football players and thus command the highest wages and transfer fees.
At Leyton Orient, same as most EFL clubs, we have to run on a very tight budget and even then, still sustain a loss of at least a couple of million pounds a year. Most EFL football clubs seem to have Champagne tastes with lemonade money !
We can only but hope that good replacement players come in who can chip in with some goals and remain fairly injury free.
We shall see in the coming season how it all pans out. Bare in mind that the fans favourite Daniel Agyei scored just the 5 goals and due to injuries played in just 18 games and the less highly rated Ruel Sotiriou scored 12 goals and played in 45 games, so on those statistics who would you prefer to play in your team ? Also the winger Jordan Graham another fans favourite, again due to injuries played in just 16 goals and scored no goals, footballers,seems with fans like a case of absence makes the heart grow stronger !

Posted: **Thu Jun 27, 2024 12:46 pm**

Not sure what system Rovers play, but always got the feeling he didn't quite fit into our 4231/433

(although he can play all those roles to an extent) he's not really a lone striker, No.10, or winger, and doesn't excel as such despite being very adaptable.

Perhaps Ruel thinks he can function better in a 442 (maybe), or at least with a striking partner of some sort, and I believe he may be correct in that assumption..

Posted: **Thu Jun 27, 2024 1:38 pm**

Scuba Diver wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2024 12:46 pm Not sure what system Rovers play, but always got the feeling he didn't quite fit into our 4231/433

(although he can play all those roles to an extent) he's not really a lone striker, No.10, or winger, and doesn't excel as such despite being very adaptable.

Perhaps Ruel thinks he can function better in a 442 (maybe), or at least with a striking partner of some sort, and I believe he may be correct in that assumption..

This !!

I remember Ross Embleton seem to see Ruel as a left winger, strange thinking to me, never a left winger in a hundred years !

Posted: **Thu Jun 27, 2024 2:01 pm**

Scuba Diver wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2024 12:46 pm Not sure what system Rovers play, but always got the feeling he didn't quite fit into our 4231/433

(although he can play all those roles to an extent) he's not really a lone striker, No.10, or winger, and doesn't excel as such despite being very adaptable.

Perhaps Ruel thinks he can function better in a 442 (maybe), or at least with a striking partner of some sort, and I believe he may be correct in that assumption..

Agreed with all of that and would reach the same conclusion. He is best served playing in a pair. Which no one plays anymore.

Posted: **Thu Jun 27, 2024 2:23 pm**

Hoover Attack wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2024 2:01 pm
Scuba Diver wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2024 12:46 pm Not sure what system Rovers play, but always got the feeling he didn't quite fit into our 4231/433

(although he can play all those roles to an extent) he's not really a lone striker, No.10, or winger, and doesn't excel as such despite being very adaptable.

Perhaps Ruel thinks he can function better in a 442 (maybe), or at least with a striking partner of some sort, and I believe he may be correct in that assumption..
Agreed with all of that and would reach the same conclusion. He is best served playing in a pair. Which no one plays anymore.

That doesn't mean Rovers won't play like that this coming season .

Posted: **Thu Jun 27, 2024 4:10 pm**

Ruel has always struck me as the sort of guy who is good when he doesn't have time to think about anything. The ball comes to him, he gets off a shot and sometimes scores. The more time he has, the worse he is. Charges off down blind alleys, fails to pick the right pass, first touch not great, generally zero threat in the air. One of the most frustrating players I have seen in over 40 years of supporting the Orient.

Posted: **Thu Jun 27, 2024 4:28 pm**

Hoover Attack wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2024 2:01 pm
Scuba Diver wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2024 12:46 pm Not sure what system Rovers play, but always got the feeling he didn't quite fit into our 4231/433

(although he can play all those roles to an extent) he's not really a lone striker, No.10, or winger, and doesn't excel as such despite being very adaptable.

Perhaps Ruel thinks he can function better in a 442 (maybe), or at least with a striking partner of some sort, and I believe he may be correct in that assumption..
Agreed with all of that and would reach the same conclusion. He is best served playing in a pair. Which no one plays anymore.

442 is a good formation and not too over complicated for the players to understand what their roles are in it. As to ''no one plays anymore'' well Slovenia used this very same formation against England on Tuesday night. Alex Ferguson Manchester United used this system and Diego Simeone, Atlético Madrid still does !

Posted: **Thu Jun 27, 2024 5:59 pm**

gshaw wrote: ↑Wed Jun 26, 2024 6:04 pm https://www.leytonorient.com/news/2024/ ... on-Orient/

we have an agreed budget and wage structure here and it is important for the long-term stability of the club that we stick to that. Myself and all of the footballing staff are aligned on that.
No surprise there, tries to hold the club to ransom each time his contract ends. Glad they've not given in, he's not worth paying through the nose for. Now get someone who wants to be here and preferably can trap a ball and pass it

He just tries to get the best deal he can it's not holding the club to ransom.

Posted: **Thu Jun 27, 2024 7:12 pm**

Top of the JES wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2024 5:59 pm
gshaw wrote: ↑Wed Jun 26, 2024 6:04 pm https://www.leytonorient.com/news/2024/ ... on-Orient/

we have an agreed budget and wage structure here and it is important for the long-term stability of the club that we stick to that. Myself and all of the footballing staff are aligned on that.
No surprise there, tries to hold the club to ransom each time his contract ends. Glad they've not given in, he's not worth paying through the nose for. Now get someone who wants to be here and preferably can trap a ball and pass it
He just tries to get the best deal he can it's not holding the club to ransom.

Asking the club to break the wage structure or he'll move on falls more towards the latter, glad Richie called his bluff and put an end to it

Posted: **Thu Jun 27, 2024 8:15 pm**

gshaw wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2024 7:12 pm
Top of the JES wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2024 5:59 pm
gshaw wrote: ↑Wed Jun 26, 2024 6:04 pm https://www.leytonorient.com/news/2024/ ... on-Orient/

No surprise there, tries to hold the club to ransom each time his contract ends. Glad they've not given in, he's not worth paying through the nose for. Now get someone who wants to be here and preferably can trap a ball and pass it
He just tries to get the best deal he can it's not holding the club to ransom.
Asking the club to break the wage structure or he'll move on falls more towards the latter, glad Richie called his bluff and put an end to it

Fair enough but it's who we replace him with . A young lad with no EFL experience doesn't cut it for me . Sorry .

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