Independent Leyton Orient Forum

gshaw wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 10:54 pm

BoniO wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 8:04 pm Uxbridge is right on the Western border of London and the air is relatively clean. Try your comparison with another borough nearer the centre and you'll see a very different picture. Secondly, I don't have a lot of confidence that your data is accurate anyway. Try posting a reputable data source rather than "I've been looking at various phone based weather apps" for a start. References to "His Majesty Khan" might be construed as having a possible bias against anything than comes out of the Mayors office. This might come as a shock, but have you considered that the Mayor is trying to clean up the air in London and it's as simple as that?

Or a blatant cash grab to cover the financial hole he's got TfL into. There's far harsher sources and claims than this blog but those will be met with cries of bias so we'll go for the softer option that's written from a pretty balanced standpoint...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.onlond ... ondon/amp/

He's a Tory lord and Johnson ally.

The tfl financial hole that Johnson got it into was on course to being balanced pre COVID. That's despite the loss of nearly a billion in central grant funding that the Tories withdrew (and is not mentioned in that article, despite its supposed 'balance').

Well if it was me yes I'd try and pump out loads of electric cars, wind farms, insulation and solar panels etc. I dont think all the technology exists yet though and it needs improving too.

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 9:34 am

Story of O wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 9:31 am If everyone stopped using their cars the transport system could not cope

Eh? 90% of car journeys are unnecessary and woth no cars on the road cycling and electric scooters would replace them.

That depends on how far you have to travel and the weather.

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 9:55 am Well if it was me yes I'd try and pump out loads of electric cars, wind farms, insulation and solar panels etc. I dont think all the technology exists yet though and it needs improving too.

What vital technology is not yet in existence?

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 10:03 am

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 9:55 am Well if it was me yes I'd try and pump out loads of electric cars, wind farms, insulation and solar panels etc. I dont think all the technology exists yet though and it needs improving too.

What vital technology is not yet in existence?

Off the top of my head, green alternatives for planes, ships, lorries, boilers....

Already invented.

Whats a green plane then? Paper?

Khan begs councils to put up ULEZ signs:

https://news.sky.com/story/ulez-expansi ... d-12941343

ULEZ disproportionately hits hard up Britons during the cost of living crisis, unfairly hitting the poorest and small businesses at a time when they can least afford it. At the same time, the better off middle classes can motor around in their gas-guzzling range rovers and avoid the charge completely, including Khan himself. Yet another example of "don't do as I do, do as I say".

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 10:33 am Whats a green plane then? Paper?

Electric planes or the ground based alternative the high speed train.

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 11:00 am

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 10:33 am Whats a green plane then? Paper?

Electric planes or the ground based alternative the high speed train.

Electric plane?

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 11:18 am

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 11:00 am

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 10:33 am Whats a green plane then? Paper?

Electric planes or the ground based alternative the high speed train.

Electric plane?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-d ... e-60068786

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 11:18 am

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 11:00 am

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 10:33 am Whats a green plane then? Paper?

Electric planes or the ground based alternative the high speed train.

Electric plane?

Probably one of the ones launched by Dale Vince, the Labour Party funder and Just Stop Oil supporter, who has launched a new airline flying planes running on green hydrogen.

Except that they run on jet fuel for the time being.

Vince admitted he was not entirely happy with starting the project by burning fossil fuels but said that the airline needed to launch quickly to secure planes and landing slots and “keep up the momentum” of the project.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... ic-airline

What's the betting that his "green planes" never get off the ground?

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 11:35 am

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 11:18 am

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 11:00 am

Electric planes or the ground based alternative the high speed train.

Electric plane?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-d ... e-60068786

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 11:42 am

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 11:35 am

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 11:18 am

Electric plane?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-d ... e-60068786

It's a Rolls Royce mate.

Anyway, nobody is saying that the big jets need to be ditched overnight but many flights could be replaced by trains.

People tend to fly abroad and long distance

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 12:28 pm

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 11:42 am

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 11:35 am

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-d ... e-60068786

It's a Rolls Royce mate.

Anyway, nobody is saying that the big jets need to be ditched overnight but many flights could be replaced by trains.

They could if the train was cheaper than flying in this country

Story of O wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 12:56 pm

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 12:28 pm

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 11:42 am

It's a Rolls Royce mate.

Anyway, nobody is saying that the big jets need to be ditched overnight but many flights could be replaced by trains.

They could if the train was cheaper than flying in this country

If only the train companies weren’t money grabbing bastards. That needs fixing obviously.

BoniO wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 2:07 pm

Story of O wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 12:56 pm

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 12:28 pm

It's a Rolls Royce mate.

Anyway, nobody is saying that the big jets need to be ditched overnight but many flights could be replaced by trains.

They could if the train was cheaper than flying in this country

If only the train companies weren’t money grabbing bastards. That needs fixing obviously.

Indeed.

I travelled down from Scotland to Stansted by train this last weekend with Mrs Spike, to see my old Dad and brothers and sister.

It was 4 times more expensive than driving and 3 times more expensive that it would have been had we flown. Mrs Spike hates being a passenger when I drive long distance almost as much as she hates flying, so we had to spend the extra cash.

When I come down on my own, I usually drive, because it's way, way cheaper than the train. Even on my own, it's only marginally more expenseive than flying which in itself is nearly always much cheaper than the train. What sort of a way is that to run a country? - incentivise people to travel the most environmentally damaging way !

StillSpike wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 4:03 pm I travelled down from Scotland to Stansted by train this last weekend with Mrs Spike, to see my old Dad and brothers and sister.

It was 4 times more expensive than driving and 3 times more expensive that it would have been had we flown. Mrs Spike hates being a passenger when I drive long distance almost as much as she hates flying, so we had to spend the extra cash.

When I come down on my own, I usually drive, because it's way, way cheaper than the train. Even on my own, it's only marginally more expenseive than flying which in itself is nearly always much cheaper than the train. What sort of a way is that to run a country? - incentivise people to travel the most environmentally damaging way !

If Mrs Spike hates being a passenger and flying you could get her to push the car from Scotland to Leyton.
Would cost nothing in fuel and she wouldn't have to sit with you.
A win win situation all round.

y o y o y wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 5:34 pm

StillSpike wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 4:03 pm I travelled down from Scotland to Stansted by train this last weekend with Mrs Spike, to see my old Dad and brothers and sister.

It was 4 times more expensive than driving and 3 times more expensive that it would have been had we flown. Mrs Spike hates being a passenger when I drive long distance almost as much as she hates flying, so we had to spend the extra cash.

When I come down on my own, I usually drive, because it's way, way cheaper than the train. Even on my own, it's only marginally more expenseive than flying which in itself is nearly always much cheaper than the train. What sort of a way is that to run a country? - incentivise people to travel the most environmentally damaging way !

If Mrs Spike hates being a passenger and flying you could get her to push the car from Scotland to Leyton.
Would cost nothing in fuel and she wouldn't have to sit with you.
A win win situation all round.

OK - but you ask her, eh?

Actually, she'd probably be OK with it, as anything faster than walking pace is deemed too fast in the car.

faldO wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 10:45 am Khan begs councils to put up ULEZ signs:

https://news.sky.com/story/ulez-expansi ... d-12941343

ULEZ disproportionately hits hard up Britons during the cost of living crisis, unfairly hitting the poorest and small businesses at a time when they can least afford it. At the same time, the better off middle classes can motor around in their gas-guzzling range rovers and avoid the charge completely, including Khan himself. Yet another example of "don't do as I do, do as I say".

Absolute bollox. My ULEZ compliant car cost me £700 in March. Anyone who can afford a car in London can afford a cleaner car.

Non compliant motorbikes can be adjusted and tested to make them compliant. Don’t know it it can be done to cars

Story of O wrote: ↑Fri Aug 18, 2023 8:04 pm Non compliant motorbikes can be adjusted and tested to make them compliant. Don’t know it it can be done to cars

The bike thing is an example of a reasonable policy idea badly implemented.

A lot don't even need adjusting TFL just chose a measure that wasn't looked at for bikes at the time in terms of NOX and then slapped a year on somewhere randomly. There are two strokes passing it if you want to know how arbitrary the limit is in terms of it's impact on local air pollution. Added in bikes really have minimal impact on air quality especially given the reduction in congestion they cause it makes no sense that they are penalised more harshly than cars in terms of cut offs and charged the same price.

It also gets down to my real issue with ULEZ, I no longer use my bike to get to Orient if I'm on my own due to it (which is good, one less polluting vehicle) instead driving a petrol car with three empty seats adding to queues and parking issues,which I'm not sure is 'better'. What is worse is that when my car was in the garage over a game last season, I happily paid the charge for my wifes old Diesel 4x4 as dividing the cost between 3 passengers means it's good value compared to just one person on a bike.

So none of my choices actually have anything to do with improving the air quality for people of London, but are all financial (hence public transport not being an option I go for), and I hate the idea you can do anything 'bad' as long as you pay, it would negatively affect me more but I'd have less of an issue if they just outright banned non compliant stuff.

Where’s the money in that? The point about motorbikes is valid, less polluting and causing less congestion. We should be encouraging people onto bikes.