Independent Leyton Orient Forum

RedO wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:18 am Can’t work out if Gilso is playing a character, as he did with that Takingthemic, or if he really is this batshit crazy....?

It's a watered down version of TTM.

There's just enough in there to bait the lefties and stupid enough to be funny at times.

I was listening to a scientist who as a group are writing to the government to remind them that the chemicals are not in short supply and the kits are available. Apparently we took too long in putting our order in. Shambolic.

Thor wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:22 pm Apparently we took too long in putting our order in. Shambolic.

Now is not the time to play the blame game or point score.

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:04 pm Testing seems like a shambles, how hard can it be?

A lot harder if you don't take the offers of help, equipment and qualified scientists given by Laboratories early on. See the link I posted a few posts up.

Thor wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:22 pm I was listening to a scientist who as a group are writing to the government to remind them that the chemicals are not in short supply and the kits are available. Apparently we took too long in putting our order in. Shambolic.

Agreed but you need to stop voting for them.

Remember their original plan was for 250,000 of us to die.

By their own targets, the government is failing miserable on getting enough ventilators, PPE and tests in place. You can have a reasonable strategy but if you can't do the essentials to implement it, then you're going to f*ck up. Don't understand how anyone can think they are doing a good job.

Further to my earlier point about the completely worthless and meaningless daily Coronavirus updates; provided by this utterly useless, inept Government.

Quote (BBC):

Upping the pace of coronavirus testing - it's the UK government’s "top priority” in the words of Business Secretary Alok Sharma.


- There's talk of “confidence” and “intentions” and “progress” in getting more people tested each day. But it felt like Mr Sharma couldn’t give convincing answers to many of the questions on the Government’s testing strategy, about why things are moving so slowly, and why we haven’t been able to match other countries’ speed.

- There was no commitment to try to get to the point of mass testing in the community - to identify hotspots and better understand the spread of the virus - as a possible way out of the current set of restrictions.

Ministers have referred to problems in the global supply of the raw materials needed for the tests.

- If the Government had acted more quickly, this wouldn't have been a problem. It certainly hasn't been a problem for Germany and others within the EU; who have already tested hundreds of thousands of people.

- But the danger for the government is that the apparent difficulty in being able to spell out exactly why we are in this position - behind where ministers themselves say they want to be - leaves many questioning whether proper plans were in place, or if they are now struggling to play catch up.

In other news: pompous, smarmy, Tory-boy Robert Jenrick can't even answer basic questions; before getting his numbers completely wrong. Yet he's a 'Spokesman' for the Tory Party! Can you just imagine the furore and burning torches, had this been Diane Abbott?

https://inews.co.uk/news/health/coronav ... st-2524975

What a bunch of complete and utter

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:12 pm By their own targets, the government is failing miserable on getting enough ventilators, PPE and tests in place. You can have a reasonable strategy but if you can't do the essentials to implement it, then you're going to f*ck up. Don't understand how anyone can think they are doing a good job.

The f*** up didn't begin with the current strategy.

Remember the initial "strategy" was to ignore WHO advice and the example of China and implement the so called herd immunity strategy which would have killed an estimated 250,000 people. They were to be sacrifices to keep the capitalist economy rolling.

On receiving proper expert medical advice and from the backlash against their murderous strategy they u turned to arrive at the current shambles.

Because the UK is behind the curve we are being gazumped for PPE kit, ventilators, test kit etc by other better advised countries.

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:24 pm

Thor wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:22 pm I was listening to a scientist who as a group are writing to the government to remind them that the chemicals are not in short supply and the kits are available. Apparently we took too long in putting our order in. Shambolic.

Agreed but you need to stop voting for them.

Remember their original plan was for 250,000 of us to die.

Was that before Cummings got it ?

So what do you think will happen in Sweden who are actually Implementing that plan and their death rate is half of ours?

Thor wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:12 pm So what do you think will happen in Sweden who are actually Implementing that plan and their death rate is half of ours?

"They are leading us to catastrophe’: Sweden’s coronavirus stoicism begins to jar".

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.thegua ... own-europe

Thor wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:12 pm So what do you think will happen in Sweden who are actually Implementing that plan and their death rate is half of ours?

"They are leading us to catastrophe’: Sweden’s coronavirus stoicism begins to jar".

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.thegua ... own-europe

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.expres ... wn-spt/amp

Thor wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:12 pm So what do you think will happen in Sweden who are actually Implementing that plan and their death rate is half of ours?

"is half of ours" at this moment in time. Countries aren't all at the same position on the pandemic timeline. No conclusion can be made at this stage whether Sweden's death rate will increase or not. Also, I'd like to see some evidence showing exactly what they've done so far. Please supply.

Its almost like they are running experiments on different nations and seeing how it plays out. Herd immunity is a bad idea as the people you both want and need to protect will get dragged in quicker as the wider exposure will bring it to them.

Like I said before and it's the same as the swedes are being quoted as saying, we place our faith in the scientists and the politicians to do the right thing by us all. It's just that no one has been through this before so its computer models and algorithms making decisions on perceived patterns.

When this is over if the NHS staff don't get the biggest pay rise in their entire history I'll be marching on downing street making my views very clear.

Thor wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:30 pm Its almost like they are running experiments on different nations and seeing how it plays out. Herd immunity is a bad idea as the people you both want and need to protect will get dragged in quicker as the wider exposure will bring it to them.

Like I said before and it's the same as the swedes are being quoted as saying, we place our faith in the scientists and the politicians to do the right thing by us all. It's just that no one has been through this before so its computer models and algorithms making decisions on perceived patterns.

When this is over if the NHS staff don't get the biggest pay rise in their entire history I'll be marching on downing street making my views very clear.

No you won't. You voted this shower in.

When this is all 'over' we'll be told exactly the same sh*t as last time. 'we're all in this together 'we can't live beyond our means'. 'Hard choices need to be made. Benefits freezes at best for years, more public service cuts and plenty of protection for the rich. The coronavirus bill allows both the NHS and local authorities to not assess for care and for local authorities to ration their resources. I fear some slightly watered down version if this will become the new normal when this is done.

I know it's not the way to win back voters, but anyone who voted Tory and complains about it can f*** right off. It's what they do and what they are.

13 year old from South London died had no known underlying health conditions, yet there will be no post mortem.

The Tories are in the process of spending more money than Corbyn ever did in his wettest of wet dreams. The Tories have swung so far to the left they would make Che Guevara blush. I think you’re ideological rant is for another era Mick.

Beradogs wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:37 pm The Tories are in the process of spending more money than Corbyn ever did in his wettest of wet dreams. The Tories have swung so far to the left they would make Che Guevara blush. I think you’re ideological rant is for another era Mick.

You have been inside Corbyns dreams ?

Deluded.

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:46 pm

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:12 pm By their own targets, the government is failing miserable on getting enough ventilators, PPE and tests in place. You can have a reasonable strategy but if you can't do the essentials to implement it, then you're going to f*ck up. Don't understand how anyone can think they are doing a good job.

The f*** up didn't begin with the current strategy.

Remember the initial "strategy" was to ignore WHO advice and the example of China and implement the so called herd immunity strategy which would have killed an estimated 250,000 people. They were to be sacrifices to keep the capitalist economy rolling.

On receiving proper expert medical advice and from the backlash against their murderous strategy they u turned to arrive at the current shambles.

Because the UK is behind the curve we are being gazumped for PPE kit, ventilators, test kit etc by other better advised countries.

I don't know how Ferugson counts as 'proper' and Vallance, Whitty etc don't. It seems like there's been a understanding of the 'herd immunity' quote. I'd be lying if I said I understood this particularly well so perhaps I'm butchering the logic, but herd immunity is ultimately what most countries will end up achieving anyways, assuming that 18 months of the current situation is considered unsustainable. The whole point of flattening the curve is to regulate healthcare demands whilst accepting infections will become widespread. Merkel has said as much, and Germany is implementing rigorous controls for now.

Your last point I agree with, but there's nothing to suggest that's the result of the approach recommended by Whitty et all. Getting the right in place is a decade old problem as well, not just the last few botched months.

Not to sound too 'Thory' but I wouldn't believe a word from China on this. They have the WHO in their pocket and are responsible for not dealing with this at origin, and failing to notify the world in time.

My point is not all the money Boris is merrily spaffing now, it's what's coming after. Anyone seriously expect Boris and his chums to take a hit? The end result will be yet another vast redistribution of wealth from the bottom to the top in the name of 'sacrifices that need to be made by us all'. It will be an excuse to break up the NHS as we know it, cut social care beyond the bone and all but end public services. It's what they want to do and wrapping it up as a hard but unavoidable decision is how they'll do it.

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:49 pm

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:46 pm

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:12 pm By their own targets, the government is failing miserable on getting enough ventilators, PPE and tests in place. You can have a reasonable strategy but if you can't do the essentials to implement it, then you're going to f*ck up. Don't understand how anyone can think they are doing a good job.

The f*** up didn't begin with the current strategy.

Remember the initial "strategy" was to ignore WHO advice and the example of China and implement the so called herd immunity strategy which would have killed an estimated 250,000 people. They were to be sacrifices to keep the capitalist economy rolling.

On receiving proper expert medical advice and from the backlash against their murderous strategy they u turned to arrive at the current shambles.

Because the UK is behind the curve we are being gazumped for PPE kit, ventilators, test kit etc by other better advised countries.

I don't know how Ferugson counts as 'proper' and Vallance, Whitty etc don't. It seems like there's been a understanding of the 'herd immunity' quote. I'd be lying if I said I understood this particularly well so perhaps I'm butchering the logic, but herd immunity is ultimately what most countries will end up achieving anyways, assuming that 18 months of the current situation is considered unsustainable. The whole point of flattening the curve is to regulate healthcare demands whilst accepting infections will become widespread. Merkel has said as much, and Germany is implementing rigorous controls for now.

Your last point I agree with, but there's nothing to suggest that's the result of the approach recommended by Whitty et all. Getting the right in place is a decade old problem as well, not just the last few botched months.

Not to sound too 'Thory' but I wouldn't believe a word from China on this. They have the WHO in their pocket and are responsible for not dealing with this at origin, and failing to notify the world in time.

Is that Why Russian conspiracy theorists are flooding the internet there with
Stories it was an American Biological weapon used to undermine China & Russias
Wealth & to help stabilise Americas rising debt ?

I don't understand why we copied a disastrous country like Italy and not a successful one like South Korea who have had less than 200 deaths total.

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:24 pm I don't understand why we copied a disastrous country like Italy and not a successful one like South Korea who have had less than 200 deaths total.

Its a puzzle. That's for sure.

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:55 pm

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:49 pm

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:46 pm

The f*** up didn't begin with the current strategy.

Remember the initial "strategy" was to ignore WHO advice and the example of China and implement the so called herd immunity strategy which would have killed an estimated 250,000 people. They were to be sacrifices to keep the capitalist economy rolling.

On receiving proper expert medical advice and from the backlash against their murderous strategy they u turned to arrive at the current shambles.

Because the UK is behind the curve we are being gazumped for PPE kit, ventilators, test kit etc by other better advised countries.

I don't know how Ferugson counts as 'proper' and Vallance, Whitty etc don't. It seems like there's been a understanding of the 'herd immunity' quote. I'd be lying if I said I understood this particularly well so perhaps I'm butchering the logic, but herd immunity is ultimately what most countries will end up achieving anyways, assuming that 18 months of the current situation is considered unsustainable. The whole point of flattening the curve is to regulate healthcare demands whilst accepting infections will become widespread. Merkel has said as much, and Germany is implementing rigorous controls for now.

Your last point I agree with, but there's nothing to suggest that's the result of the approach recommended by Whitty et all. Getting the right in place is a decade old problem as well, not just the last few botched months.

Not to sound too 'Thory' but I wouldn't believe a word from China on this. They have the WHO in their pocket and are responsible for not dealing with this at origin, and failing to notify the world in time.

Is that Why Russian conspiracy theorists are flooding the internet there with
Stories it was an American Biological weapon used to undermine China & Russias
Wealth & to help stabilise Americas rising debt ?

Is what why?