Independent Leyton Orient Forum

BoniO wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 11:39 am

FrankOFile wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 7:41 am

BoniO wrote: ↑Fri Oct 13, 2023 9:58 am

Fame at last! I’ve got my own little stalker .

I may have mentioned this earlier but despising the State of Israel is not the same as hating Jews. I doubt you’ll take note of that because it doesn’t suit your narrative but it bears repeating all the same, you tiresome pillock.

More name calling. You inarticulate Israel / Jewish haters sure are an intelligent lot.

Morning Frankie! Still a bit unhinged?

FrankOFile wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 7:53 am

BoniO wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 11:39 am

FrankOFile wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 7:41 am

More name calling. You inarticulate Israel / Jewish haters sure are an intelligent lot.

Morning Frankie! Still a bit unhinged?

It is the Hamas rocket launchers with a skewed aim which are a bit unhinged.

Stowaway wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 5:30 pm Why is this one particular strike being questioned, as opposed to the hundreds of other Israeli air strikes over the last few days? Is it just because it hit a hospital, a hospital that had already been hit by an Israeli missile?

We’re hardly likely to get a definitive answer because no independent experts are going to be allowed to check it out, but it seems odd that of all the air strikes, this is the one that’s being questioned. Just saying.

Dunners wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 8:58 am

Stowaway wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 5:30 pm Why is this one particular strike being questioned, as opposed to the hundreds of other Israeli air strikes over the last few days? Is it just because it hit a hospital, a hospital that had already been hit by an Israeli missile?

We’re hardly likely to get a definitive answer because no independent experts are going to be allowed to check it out, but it seems odd that of all the air strikes, this is the one that’s being questioned. Just saying.

Good question. If the ground invasion of Gaza goes ahead proper, whether 50 or 500 people died will become a statistical irrelevance. I think there's a few reasons why this story matters.

The speed and eagerness at which certain media outlets, politicians and public commentators were willing to grab onto whichever narrative best supported their world view was telling. Any emerging evidence that challenged their 'opponents' was then equally eagerly pounced upon and weaponised against the other side. In other words, it's the same culture war divides we're seeing playing out in other arenas.

But, there's also the reaction we've seen unfold across the Arab world. A large proportion of the population arrived at the conclusion from the get-=go that this was an Israeli strike. No amount of evidence or persuasion will convince them otherwise. This has seen uprisings and public displays of anger towards both Israel and any government figures in those countries who have demonstrated willingness to normalise relations with Israel.

The outcome is that the normalisation process between Israel and Arab countries is on ice, if not finished. And, the leaders of the West Bank, Jordan and Egypt have all cancelled meetings with POTUS, which were intended to achieve some semblance of unity.

Who would benefit from the Arab world arriving at the conclusion that it did so quickly and so robustly?
Who would benefit from the pausing of all normalisation talks?
Who would benefit from the cancelation of unity meetings?

If Iran are not behind this, then they sure must be rubbing their hands together with their unbelievable luck. And if they are behind it then they are playing an absolute blinder.

And the events surrounding the explosion at the hospital is now pivotal to all of the above. From a political and regional security perspective, it no longer matters who did it.

faldO wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 3:23 pm Interesting interview between Anna Botting (Sky News) and Mark Regev last night when understandably emotions were running high about what was being reported about the hospital strike, but shows how certain sections of the media are unable to remain impartial.

https://news.sky.com/video/israel-hamas ... l-12986579

Loin Cloth Lenny wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 9:11 am
Agree with most of what you say but after ‘media outlets’ please insert ‘and certain Labour Politicians’

Dunners wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 9:22 am

Loin Cloth Lenny wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 9:11 am
Agree with most of what you say but after ‘media outlets’ please insert ‘and certain Labour Politicians’

This is not isolated to being a UK issue, or party political. It's not in the people's interest to be unhelpfully divisive. You're obviously referring to Corbyn here, and he has been called out by many people on the left for what he said, and is no longer a Labour politician.

Admin wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 9:41 am

Dunners wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 9:22 am

Loin Cloth Lenny wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 9:11 am
Agree with most of what you say but after ‘media outlets’ please insert ‘and certain Labour Politicians’

This is not isolated to being a UK issue, or party political. It's not in the people's interest to be unhelpfully divisive. You're obviously referring to Corbyn here, and he has been called out by many people on the left for what he said, and is no longer a Labour politician.

[Orange] But bar that, LCL's spot on with his analysis. [Orange]

Loin Cloth Lenny wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 10:18 am

Admin wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 9:41 am

Dunners wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 9:22 am

This is not isolated to being a UK issue, or party political. It's not in the people's interest to be unhelpfully divisive. You're obviously referring to Corbyn here, and he has been called out by many people on the left for what he said, and is no longer a Labour politician.

[Orange] But bar that, LCL's spot on with his analysis. [Orange]

Actually, Corbyn never entered my mind as he has no whip and is an independent. I was referring more to the 30 or so pro PalestinianLabour MP’s who are calling for a ceasefire , criticising their leader Sir Kier, including John McDonnell, Zarah Sultana , Apsana Begum, Tahir Ali to name a few. Starmer has had to write to them and all Labour councillors about restraint and quite rightly so in my view.

Proposition Joe wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 10:37 am They need to show restraint because calling for a ceasefire in an extremist position, righto.
[/

Admin wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 10:59 am

Loin Cloth Lenny wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 10:18 am

Admin wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 9:41 am

[Orange] But bar that, LCL's spot on with his analysis. [Orange]

Actually, Corbyn never entered my mind as he has no whip and is an independent. I was referring more to the 30 or so pro PalestinianLabour MP’s who are calling for a ceasefire , criticising their leader Sir Kier, including John McDonnell, Zarah Sultana , Apsana Begum, Tahir Ali to name a few. Starmer has had to write to them and all Labour councillors about restraint and quite rightly so in my view.

You're a believer in free speech then?

Loin Cloth Lenny wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 11:05 am

Proposition Joe wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 10:37 am They need to show restraint because calling for a ceasefire in an extremist position, righto.

They did not just call for a ceasefire, showed bias.

Loin Cloth Lenny wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 11:05 am

Proposition Joe wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 10:37 am They need to show restraint because calling for a ceasefire in an extremist position, righto.

They did not just call for a ceasefire, showed bias. Ms Sultana MP, blaming Israel for the hospital attack and citing war crimes, from the comfort of her Coventry Constituency. I was calling for a cease fire last week!

Loin Cloth Lenny wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 11:06 am

Admin wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 10:59 am

Loin Cloth Lenny wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 10:18 am

Actually, Corbyn never entered my mind as he has no whip and is an independent. I was referring more to the 30 or so pro PalestinianLabour MP’s who are calling for a ceasefire , criticising their leader Sir Kier, including John McDonnell, Zarah Sultana , Apsana Begum, Tahir Ali to name a few. Starmer has had to write to them and all Labour councillors about restraint and quite rightly so in my view.

You're a believer in free speech then?

I am a believer in free speech, objectivity , diplomacy, fairness, tact, and inclusion.

Admin wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 11:12 am

Loin Cloth Lenny wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 11:06 am

Admin wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 10:59 am

You're a believer in free speech then?

I am a believer in free speech, objectivity , diplomacy, fairness, tact, and inclusion.

So what's wrong with calling for a ceasefire then?

As it happens, don't bother replying. I'm not even sure why I continue to engage with you.

PS - learn how to use the f*cking quote function.

Admin wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 11:12 am

Loin Cloth Lenny wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 11:06 am

Admin wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 10:59 am

You're a believer in free speech then?

I am a believer in free speech, objectivity , diplomacy, fairness, tact, and inclusion.

So what's wrong with calling for a ceasefire then?

As it happens, don't bother replying. I'm not even sure why I continue to engage with you.

PS - learn how to use the f*cking quote function.

CEB wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 11:17 am

Admin wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 11:12 am

Loin Cloth Lenny wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 11:06 am

I am a believer in free speech, objectivity , diplomacy, fairness, tact, and inclusion.

So what's wrong with calling for a ceasefire then?

As it happens, don't bother replying. I'm not even sure why I continue to engage with you.

PS - learn how to use the f*cking quote function.

I’m not necessarily advocating for this position, because de-escalation is surely necessary at some point and the sooner the better, but the argument against those calling for a ceasefire is surely that they call for it when it asks something of one side, and not of the other. So it’s easy to call for the “other” side to stop, less easy to call on those you re allied with/sympathise with/its expedient to back to be the ones to not retaliate?

Proposition Joe wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 11:37 am So if calling for a ceasefire wasn't relevant to the point you were apparently trying to make, why did you mention it?

CEB wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 11:17 am

Admin wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 11:12 am

Loin Cloth Lenny wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 11:06 am

I am a believer in free speech, objectivity , diplomacy, fairness, tact, and inclusion.

So what's wrong with calling for a ceasefire then?

As it happens, don't bother replying. I'm not even sure why I continue to engage with you.

PS - learn how to use the f*cking quote function.

I’m not necessarily advocating for this position, because de-escalation is surely necessary at some point and the sooner the better, but the argument against those calling for a ceasefire is surely that they call for it when it asks something of one side, and not of the other. So it’s easy to call for the “other” side to stop, less easy to call on those you re allied with/sympathise with/its expedient to back to be the ones to not retaliate?

Loin Cloth Lenny wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 12:09 pm

Proposition Joe wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 11:37 am So if calling for a ceasefire wasn't relevant to the point you were apparently trying to make, why did you mention it?

I was hoping for a ceasefire last week , the post above was highlighting certain Labour MP’s ignoring Starmer’s request for cross party unity on the matter. The 30 or so MP’s ignoring him are I’ll judging the situation and are not being objective.