Should ST holders get a refund?

[Ronnie Hotdogs]

jimbo some clubs may not make it unless a significant cash injection is made to support that club. I do believe we won't be one of them and each supporter who has bought a season ticket is once less chance of it being us.

We have heard the owners say what the shortfall will be and it is upto them to cover that. That's cold hard cash out of their pockets for 7 numbers, a lot of cash.

So whilst its not what we want (stream) it's not what they want either as they lose gate money, beers, food etc. All chances of our ability to minimise that loss gone for now. So whilst we as season tickets may be out of pocket we will be the first back in the ground as I don't see full attendance being on the radar for quite sometime yet.

Plus you've helped your club in a period of global concern and helps to keep us going in our 139 / 140 year of existence. Its special and you've helped it, be proud of that.

Thor Fair enough I did it to help the club but surely it's not just season ticket holders who should be asked to help out.

I would've thought that those stream the games would be happy to have a price increase per match to help the club. Then when fans go back in the grounds you can revert back to a tenner.

Everyone was asked to help out by buying a ST.

Those who wanted to or were in a position to do so, did. Those who didn't want to or couldn't afford to, didn't.

To do so and then start moaning about it is not fair towards the club.

[A Pedant]

I would've thought that those stream the games would be happy to have a price increase per match to help the club. Then when fans go back in the grounds you can revert back to a tenner.

The streaming price is fixed by the EFL. And to be fair to the club, they've not been backwards at offering opportunities for fans to help the club financially since lockdown - merch at all price points (including the phenomenally popular kits), crowdfunder, pitchside dining, and yes season tickets.

[Top of the JES]

So I can call you a twaghead in future correspondence then as it's not an insult?

I think RedO called you that. If you look at my response it was to Thors post.

Thors post agreed with REDo and you agreed with that, so what conclusion do you expect me to draw?

I agreed with Thors sentiments about supporting the club - Hadn't even seen the comment from RedO.

[gshaw]

I take it you aren't 1 of the 60 %+ who voted No Refund then.

Lets get it right , the only people penalizing you is the Government ,
As they are the ones restricting crowds entry by law & understandably so

All those involved at the highest ranks of the club.are doing is
FOLLOWING GOVERNMENTS RULE OF LAW during an ever changing pandemic .

All it will take is 3 or 4 players from say 30% of all clubs to test positive & footy
Will be stopped wuick enough .

Yes i didn't ask for a refund.

I'm not expecting to be in the ground this side of xmas.

However if i'd known I'd be paying more for getting a season ticket with streaming access rather than someone whose just paying for Streaming the games I wouldn't have signed up.

You honestly thought they were going to start charging £15 - £20 to stream the game? Get outta here!

Just reading back through these replies... last season there was no 3pm streaming of home games so it's not much of a stretch to wonder whether that would've been an ST-only privilege.

The club need to rethink how they're promoting this on social media, it's not a "free" stream if you've paid to watch with a bloody season ticket. As per other posters if you want to keep your favoured seat there's no other option.

[Bernard Mandeville]

I bought season tickets - for the simple reason I want the club to survive. It was always obvious that attendance might not be possible for at least some of, or perhaps all of, the season.

[Long slender neck]

"I want the club to survive"- the reality is your season ticket money is going into players pockets.

[Ronnie Hotdogs]

Yes i didn't ask for a refund.

I'm not expecting to be in the ground this side of xmas.

However if i'd known I'd be paying more for getting a season ticket with streaming access rather than someone whose just paying for Streaming the games I wouldn't have signed up.

You honestly thought they were going to start charging £15 - £20 to stream the game? Get outta here!

Just reading back through these replies... last season there was no 3pm streaming of home games so it's not much of a stretch to wonder whether that would've been an ST-only privilege.

The club need to rethink how they're promoting this on social media, it's not a "free" stream if you've paid to watch with a bloody season ticket. As per other posters if you want to keep your favoured seat there's no other option.

The hone games were streamed last season.

It would be ridiculous to only give ST holders access to the streams.

[Thor]

"I want the club to survive"- the reality is your season ticket money is going into players pockets.

Which in turn reduces the amount of money it needs to find to pay the players wages and other day to day expenses.

[gshaw]

You honestly thought they were going to start charging £15 - £20 to stream the game? Get outta here!

Just reading back through these replies... last season there was no 3pm streaming of home games so it's not much of a stretch to wonder whether that would've been an ST-only privilege.

The club need to rethink how they're promoting this on social media, it's not a "free" stream if you've paid to watch with a bloody season ticket. As per other posters if you want to keep your favoured seat there's no other option.

The hone games were streamed last season.

It would be ridiculous to only give ST holders access to the streams.

Happy to stand corrected on this but I don't think any 3pm home games were allowed to stream in the UK until Covid changed the game.

Internationally yes it was different and if you have a smidgen of tech knowledge that hurdle is easily overcome, which I imagine a fair few fans probably used.

[Ronnie Hotdogs]

Just reading back through these replies... last season there was no 3pm streaming of home games so it's not much of a stretch to wonder whether that would've been an ST-only privilege.

The club need to rethink how they're promoting this on social media, it's not a "free" stream if you've paid to watch with a bloody season ticket. As per other posters if you want to keep your favoured seat there's no other option.

The hone games were streamed last season.

It would be ridiculous to only give ST holders access to the streams.

Happy to stand corrected on this but I don't think any 3pm home games were allowed to stream in the UK until Covid changed the game.

Internationally yes it was different and if you have a smidgen of tech knowledge that hurdle is easily overcome, which I imagine a fair few fans probably used.

You’re right. It was possible to watch 3pm games if you weren’t in the UK.

[tuffers#1]

jimbo some clubs may not make it unless a significant cash injection is made to support that club. I do believe we won't be one of them and each supporter who has bought a season ticket is once less chance of it being us.

We have heard the owners say what the shortfall will be and it is upto them to cover that. That's cold hard cash out of their pockets for 7 numbers, a lot of cash.

So whilst its not what we want (stream) it's not what they want either as they lose gate money, beers, food etc. All chances of our ability to minimise that loss gone for now. So whilst we as season tickets may be out of pocket we will be the first back in the ground as I don't see full attendance being on the radar for quite sometime yet.

Plus you've helped your club in a period of global concern and helps to keep us going in our 139 / 140 year of existence. Its special and you've helped it, be proud of that.

Thor Fair enough I did it to help the club but surely it's not just season ticket holders who should be asked to help out.

I would've thought that those stream the games would be happy to have a price increase per match to help the club. Then when fans go back in the grounds you can revert back to a tenner.

How does 1.club be part of something that is set by the Rulers of the Game
( F.A . Prem league/ EFl )

A pricing system voted on by all members of those clubs arrived at a price.

You cant charge a random price to customers
for something that everyone else is paying less for .

Its not happening.

[tuffers#1]

I get what RedO is saying, legally you have no right. But talking of loyalty, which is very much what this is about and what the club should foster, the circumstances have changed - regardless of if you predicted them - and whilst the club don't HAVE to do anything, it feels strange that they would want to charge more to the loyal customers.

Theres not a right or wrong answer, it's a tricky one. Not sure why this has got so nasty though.

Sorry mate, you know I love a moan as much as the next fan, if not more, but there’s no case here.

The club owners came out with their begging bowl and asked us to help them out by renewing our season tickets, even though there was no certainty of any of us being allowed in. They made it quite clear that there wouldn’t be any refunds. There was every likelihood that this would be a donation.

The offer of a free stream - as advertised when you bought your ticket - is merely a small compensation for not being allowed in. It is in no way meant to fully cover your loss.

This was all done during FULL LOCKDOWN ,
No New Season had been confirmed
The old season had just been postponed
No stream details had been changed &
No FA/ Efl Rules had changed with regards
To live football being allowed to be watched
at 3 pm on a Saturday in the UK legally on screen .
T V Electronic device etc .

The begging bowl bit is correct,
The promise of x & y isnt as at the time nothing was officially known !





All possibles were discussed here at the time .

Possibles the outcomes of possibles .

Constant use of

Its all " Evolving continually" was pointed out clearly to all .

[Disoriented]

I bought season tickets - for the simple reason I want the club to survive. It was always obvious that attendance might not be possible for at least some of, or perhaps all of, the season.

How's the turkey farm these days fella?

[Disoriented]

I get what RedO is saying, legally you have no right. But talking of loyalty, which is very much what this is about and what the club should foster, the circumstances have changed - regardless of if you predicted them - and whilst the club don't HAVE to do anything, it feels strange that they would want to charge more to the loyal customers.

Theres not a right or wrong answer, it's a tricky one. Not sure why this has got so nasty though.

Sorry mate, you know I love a moan as much as the next fan, if not more, but there’s no case here.

The club owners came out with their begging bowl and asked us to help them out by renewing our season tickets, even though there was no certainty of any of us being allowed in. They made it quite clear that there wouldn’t be any refunds. There was every likelihood that this would be a donation.

The offer of a free stream - as advertised when you bought your ticket - is merely a small compensation for not being allowed in. It is in no way meant to fully cover your loss.

This was all done during FULL LOCKDOWN ,
No New Season had been confirmed
The old season had just been postponed
No stream details had been changed &
No FA/ Efl Rules had changed with regards
To live football being allowed to be watched
at 3 pm on a Saturday in the UK legally on screen .
T V Electronic device etc .

The begging bowl bit is correct,
The promise of x & y isnt as at the time nothing was officially known !





All possibles were discussed here at the time .

Possibles the outcomes of possibles .

Constant use of

Its all " Evolving continually" was pointed out clearly to all .

How much to stream the games illegally fella?

[Ronnie Hotdogs]

I get what RedO is saying, legally you have no right. But talking of loyalty, which is very much what this is about and what the club should foster, the circumstances have changed - regardless of if you predicted them - and whilst the club don't HAVE to do anything, it feels strange that they would want to charge more to the loyal customers.

Theres not a right or wrong answer, it's a tricky one. Not sure why this has got so nasty though.

Sorry mate, you know I love a moan as much as the next fan, if not more, but there’s no case here.

The club owners came out with their begging bowl and asked us to help them out by renewing our season tickets, even though there was no certainty of any of us being allowed in. They made it quite clear that there wouldn’t be any refunds. There was every likelihood that this would be a donation.

The offer of a free stream - as advertised when you bought your ticket - is merely a small compensation for not being allowed in. It is in no way meant to fully cover your loss.

This was all done during FULL LOCKDOWN ,
No New Season had been confirmed
The old season had just been postponed
No stream details had been changed &
No FA/ Efl Rules had changed with regards
To live football being allowed to be watched
at 3 pm on a Saturday in the UK legally on screen .
T V Electronic device etc .

The begging bowl bit is correct,
The promise of x & y isnt as at the time nothing was officially known !





All possibles were discussed here at the time .

Possibles the outcomes of possibles .

Constant use of

Its all " Evolving continually" was pointed out clearly to all .

Very good point.

So the complimentary stream was an after thought only. Some people would have signed up expecting nothing back if crowds weren’t allowed back in.

[BiggsyMalone]

The fair thing for the club would be to reduce the price of thd following season’s ST if they don’t want to issue partial refunds.

If i’d have known they would have done this, then I would have got my refund for last season instead of deferring it to this ST

[spen666]

The fair thing for the club would be to reduce the price of thd following season’s ST if they don’t want to issue partial refunds.

If i’d have known they would have done this, then I would have got my refund for last season instead of deferring it to this ST

Why would there be any question of refunds partial or otherwise.
The tickets were sold on basis that if games were BCD then there would be streaming made available and no refunds.

People are getting exactly what they contracted

[Long slender neck]

I don't remember these terms being set out when payment was taken over the phone.

[Long slender neck]

You must offer a refund to customers if they’ve told you within 14 days of receiving their goods that they want to cancel. They have another 14 days to return the goods once they’ve told you.

You must refund the customer within 14 days of receiving the goods back. They do not have to provide a reason.

[tuffers#1]

You must offer a refund to customers if they’ve told you within 14 days of receiving their goods that they want to cancel. They have another 14 days to return the goods once they’ve told you.

You must refund the customer within 14 days of receiving the goods back. They do not have to provide a reason.

They werent purchasing ,
They were Renewing what they already own
There previous seasons seat

[A Pedant]

I'm sure theres nothing in the T&C's about ST holders getting priority tickets in a normal yeah, if we drew Man U at home in the FA cup, but you'd expect the club to honour that loyalty with priority tickets.

Its not all black and white.

You should read the T&Cs then, there are "standard arrangements for ALL home cup games" set out quite clearly in black and white: https://www.leytonorient.com/2020/06/06 ... 2020-2021/

[A Pedant]

I don't remember these terms being set out when payment was taken over the phone.

Didn't need to be, the terms were set out on the website in the season ticket T&Cs:

Games Played Behind Closed Doors

Should any games be designated by either Government or Football Authorities to be played behind closed doors the Club will offer the ability to watch the game via its streaming service to all Season Card Holders in lieu of gaining entry to the Stadium for home league matches.

[Long slender neck]

You must offer a refund to customers if they’ve told you within 14 days of receiving their goods that they want to cancel. They have another 14 days to return the goods once they’ve told you.

You must refund the customer within 14 days of receiving the goods back. They do not have to provide a reason.

They werent purchasing ,
They were Renewing what they already own
There previous seasons seat

No that's not going to wash.

[Long slender neck]

I don't remember these terms being set out when payment was taken over the phone.

Didn't need to be, the terms were set out on the website in the season ticket T&Cs:

Games Played Behind Closed Doors

Should any games be designated by either Government or Football Authorities to be played behind closed doors the Club will offer the ability to watch the game via its streaming service to all Season Card Holders in lieu of gaining entry to the Stadium for home league matches.

So terms can just be buried on the website somewhere? I have also not received my card yet. It says if I do not accept the terms I can cancel.

[A Pedant]

I don't remember these terms being set out when payment was taken over the phone.

Didn't need to be, the terms were set out on the website in the season ticket T&Cs:

Games Played Behind Closed Doors

Should any games be designated by either Government or Football Authorities to be played behind closed doors the Club will offer the ability to watch the game via its streaming service to all Season Card Holders in lieu of gaining entry to the Stadium for home league matches.

So terms can just be buried on the website somewhere? I have also not received my card yet. It says if I do not accept the terms I can cancel.

Hardly buried. There was a big paragraph on the season cards page about FAQs with a link to an FAQs page. One of the FAQs was:

WHAT HAPPENS IF ANY HOME GAMES DURING THE 2020/21 SEASON ARE PLAYED BEHIND CLOSED DOORS?

If this situation arises then all Season Card holders will be provided with access to watch home league games on Orient TV. Please view the Terms and Conditions by clicking the link at the bottom of the page.

...and at the bottom of the page is said link to T&Cs.