Independent Leyton Orient Forum

gshaw wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2020 2:09 pm

The Big Shot wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2020 1:19 pm

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2020 11:56 am

No.. Because if we play these talented young players, we will be at the top end of the league. They are miles better than the old tired players
I would rather Ogie, over Coulson all day long
I would rather Kyprianou over any midfielder we have, all day long
I would rather Sotiriou, over Angell, or Wilkinson, all day long etc etc.
It won't happen because Ling prefers tired old pros, to young guns

No mention of Sam Ling or Myles Judd? Or Sam Sargeant?

Not great examples really...

Ling's son
Player who gets dropped as soon as said son is available
Cheapest backup GK we can find

kokomO wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2020 12:57 pm

PoliticOs wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2020 12:39 pm

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2020 11:56 am

No.. Because if we play these talented young players, we will be at the top end of the league. They are miles better than the old tired players
I would rather Ogie, over Coulson all day long
I would rather Kyprianou over any midfielder we have, all day long
I would rather Sotiriou, over Angell, or Wilkinson, all day long etc etc.
It won't happen because Ling prefers tired old pros, to young guns

Hmmm OK! Well if you're being honest. Fair enough.

What about when we were playing; Abrahams (Norwich), Koroma (Huddersfield), Alzate (Brighton and Colombia), Dalby (Leeds and Watford), Adeboyejo (Barnsley), Semedo (Serie D), Mezague (Belgium Premier League), Massey (Wigan), Janse (Venlo in the Eredevise), Nomo (Portuguese 2nd Div)?

All of those were talented young players and all of those played for us. In this division. As we got relegated out of it for the first time ever.

Was you not calling for some experienced signings back then?

And that kid upfront for Southampton, doing well in the premier, didn’t he use to be one of ours as well ???

The Big Shot wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2020 2:26 pm

gshaw wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2020 2:09 pm

The Big Shot wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2020 1:19 pm
No mention of Sam Ling or Myles Judd? Or Sam Sargeant?

Not great examples really...

Ling's son
Player who gets dropped as soon as said son is available
Cheapest backup GK we can find

Exactly. The thats the point I'm trying to make, not every youngster turns out to be good enough, whether it be the short or long term.

Disoriented wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:00 pm

The Big Shot wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2020 2:26 pm

gshaw wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2020 2:09 pm

Not great examples really...

Ling's son
Player who gets dropped as soon as said son is available
Cheapest backup GK we can find

Exactly. The thats the point I'm trying to make, not every youngster turns out to be good enough, whether it be the short or long term.

You don’t make points, just dig out those who don’t work for the club.

What is your role there fella?

The Big Shot wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2020 8:14 pm

Disoriented wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:00 pm

The Big Shot wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2020 2:26 pm
Exactly. The thats the point I'm trying to make, not every youngster turns out to be good enough, whether it be the short or long term.

You don’t make points, just dig out those who don’t work for the club.

What is your role there fella?

It doesn't matter what I say, you will just tell me I'm wrong.

You just tell me what you want to hear and I will agree with you and say you're correct, because whatever you say is always right

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2020 8:20 pm

The Big Shot wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2020 8:14 pm

Disoriented wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:00 pm

You don’t make points, just dig out those who don’t work for the club.

What is your role there fella?

It doesn't matter what I say, you will just tell me I'm wrong.

You just tell me what you want to hear and I will agree with you and say you're correct, because whatever you say is always right

Just go away , you moron..no one wants you here

Millennial Snowflake wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2020 12:30 pm

RedO wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2020 11:16 am

Millennial Snowflake wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:54 am If you’d actually make a 20-year-old who’s played 12 games the club's highest paid player, you may want to ask yourself “why am I not a professional football manager?”

Have I said he should be the highest paid player?

But he is absolutely worth the same wage - more, in my opinion - as any of Angol, Wilko or Johnson. Do you think he isn't?

He's played 12 games in League football. Of course he isn't worth the same wage as Angol or Wilkinson yet.

If he smashes in 20-25 for us next season, then he might have a case.

The Big Shot wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2020 8:27 pm

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2020 8:20 pm

The Big Shot wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2020 8:14 pm
It doesn't matter what I say, you will just tell me I'm wrong.

You just tell me what you want to hear and I will agree with you and say you're correct, because whatever you say is always right

Just go away , you moron..no one wants you here

Where would you prefer I go? Salford City with you or Bolton Wanderers with Disoriented?

I'd prefer to go with you my friend as I admire your ambition more

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2020 6:29 pm He would do well to sign a similar deal to Bonne, so that once he has proved himself he can move to a bigger club.

HeyO wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2020 1:10 pm

Millennial Snowflake wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2020 12:30 pm

RedO wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2020 11:16 am

Have I said he should be the highest paid player?

But he is absolutely worth the same wage - more, in my opinion - as any of Angol, Wilko or Johnson. Do you think he isn't?

He's played 12 games in League football. Of course he isn't worth the same wage as Angol or Wilkinson yet.

If he smashes in 20-25 for us next season, then he might have a case.

What’s Angol done?

The Big Shot wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2020 8:42 pm In all seriousness, If Ruel signed for say a Championship/Premiership club - Like Azalte and Abrahams did, how would people perceive that? With him maybe being loaned back to us for a season as well as receiving a transfer fee?

He's still very young with alot of potential like the two of them had. Azalte is now in the Brighton first team as well.

Surely no one would begrudge him a move that high up the pyramid? Surely you can't moan at Ling and the club if this was to happen? Surely you can't stand in a talented youngsters way of moving that high up?

RedO wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2020 8:35 pm

Millennial Snowflake wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2020 12:30 pm

RedO wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2020 11:16 am
Have I said he should be the highest paid player?

But he is absolutely worth the same wage - more, in my opinion - as any of Angol, Wilko or Johnson. Do you think he isn't?

He's played 12 games in League football. Of course he isn't worth the same wage as Angol or Wilkinson yet.

If he smashes in 20-25 for us next season, then he might have a case.

Then he might have a case?

None of the others - Harold excluded - have any sort of track record at all.

He had a bigger impact on games than any other striker at the club last season. I’m also pretty sure none of them scored more goals than him either, even though he didn’t get brought into the squad until December/January.

Of course he is worth the same wage as Angol and Wilkinson right now.

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2020 6:29 pm He would do well to sign a similar deal to Bonne, so that once he has proved himself he can move to a bigger club.

Millennial Snowflake wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 11:49 am

RedO wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2020 8:35 pm

Millennial Snowflake wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2020 12:30 pm

He's played 12 games in League football. Of course he isn't worth the same wage as Angol or Wilkinson yet.

If he smashes in 20-25 for us next season, then he might have a case.

Then he might have a case?

None of the others - Harold excluded - have any sort of track record at all.

He had a bigger impact on games than any other striker at the club last season. I’m also pretty sure none of them scored more goals than him either, even though he didn’t get brought into the squad until December/January.

Of course he is worth the same wage as Angol and Wilkinson right now.

Angol and Wilkinson are 5-6 years older than Sotiriou and have played over 100 games each in the league. Angol in particular has scored a few at a higher level too. Sotiriou has played a quarter of a season for us.

You're usually one of the more sensible football posters on here, please stop overreacting.

RedO wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 1:43 pm

Millennial Snowflake wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 11:49 am

RedO wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2020 8:35 pm

Then he might have a case?

None of the others - Harold excluded - have any sort of track record at all.

He had a bigger impact on games than any other striker at the club last season. I’m also pretty sure none of them scored more goals than him either, even though he didn’t get brought into the squad until December/January.

Of course he is worth the same wage as Angol and Wilkinson right now.

Angol and Wilkinson are 5-6 years older than Sotiriou and have played over 100 games each in the league. Angol in particular has scored a few at a higher level too. Sotiriou has played a quarter of a season for us.

You're usually one of the more sensible football posters on here, please stop overreacting.

Lee Angol had started 66 league games before and scored 29 league goals before coming here.

Wilko had started 56 league games and scored 13 league goals before coming here.

Neither are experienced or have any sort of a track record.

AckneyAwks wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 3:03 pm Two clubs from completely different parallels of the universe one Manchester United the other Leyton Orient. United have a young talented forward Mason Greenwood come through the youth system and after showing outstanding ability and this season scoring goals not too far short of regular first teamers Martial and Rashford they get him signed up on a new improved contract. Because they are paying weekly wages of six figures he falls short of the top earners.They saw a talent and rewarded it.
The other club Leyton Orient develop a young striker who maybe did not show the obvious same early ability but as he matured he showed last season some obvious improvement in the qualities of a lower league striker self belief, confidence in himself, pace and a rarity at a club like the Orient, goals!. The people who decide contracts at the club should have seen this immediately and improved his wages instantly. Ruel at a guess was probably on a wage of around lets say £500 per week, at that time with what he was showing i cant believe a pay increase to around £3,000 per week would have been turned down. If you weigh that up with our two regular forwards who were probably on two or three times more than Ruel but scoring fewer goals. Let's say he had accepted the new 2/3 year contract we all know the way things work out in lower league football, if he carried on scoring goals at the same rate he would have been sold for a figure of minimum £500,000 but probably quite a lot more and that would have been inside 12 months.
Instead we now face the likely prospect of losing him for nothing, a really costly error for a club of our size and before anyone shouts "Pay Cut", this should have been done long before the virus break in football.
I know you cant compare United with Orient on almost anything but it's the similar scenarios of the two and we as a club could be found wanting. Hopefully Ruel does sign for us but things dont look very good at the moment.
What i would like to see is a little more positivety with pushing our exciting youth players forward when we develope them if not what would be the point of youth developement at Leyton Orient and that is from someone who is 200% in favour of it continuing.

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 2:05 pm

RedO wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 1:43 pm

Millennial Snowflake wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 11:49 am

Angol and Wilkinson are 5-6 years older than Sotiriou and have played over 100 games each in the league. Angol in particular has scored a few at a higher level too. Sotiriou has played a quarter of a season for us.

You're usually one of the more sensible football posters on here, please stop overreacting.

Lee Angol had started 66 league games before and scored 29 league goals before coming here.

Wilko had started 56 league games and scored 13 league goals before coming here.

Neither are experienced or have any sort of a track record.

TBF almost 1 goal in 2 games is decent for angol.

Actually think he's suited to a higher league. Didnt seem to enjoy some of the rough and tumble last season. I actually think he'd score if he had a decent partner who could play to his strengths.

AckneyAwks wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 3:03 pm Two clubs from completely different parallels of the universe one Manchester United the other Leyton Orient. United have a young talented forward Mason Greenwood come through the youth system and after showing outstanding ability and this season scoring goals not too far short of regular first teamers Martial and Rashford they get him signed up on a new improved contract. Because they are paying weekly wages of six figures he falls short of the top earners.They saw a talent and rewarded it.
The other club Leyton Orient develop a young striker who maybe did not show the obvious same early ability but as he matured he showed last season some obvious improvement in the qualities of a lower league striker self belief, confidence in himself, pace and a rarity at a club like the Orient, goals!. The people who decide contracts at the club should have seen this immediately and improved his wages instantly. Ruel at a guess was probably on a wage of around lets say £500 per week, at that time with what he was showing i cant believe a pay increase to around £3,000 per week would have been turned down. If you weigh that up with our two regular forwards who were probably on two or three times more than Ruel but scoring fewer goals. Let's say he had accepted the new 2/3 year contract we all know the way things work out in lower league football, if he carried on scoring goals at the same rate he would have been sold for a figure of minimum £500,000 but probably quite a lot more and that would have been inside 12 months.
Instead we now face the likely prospect of losing him for nothing, a really costly error for a club of our size and before anyone shouts "Pay Cut", this should have been done long before the virus break in football.
I know you cant compare United with Orient on almost anything but it's the similar scenarios of the two and we as a club could be found wanting. Hopefully Ruel does sign for us but things dont look very good at the moment.
What i would like to see is a little more positivety with pushing our exciting youth players forward when we develope them if not what would be the point of youth developement at Leyton Orient and that is from someone who is 200% in favour of it continuing.