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Re: Chief Rabbi speaks
Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 6:44 pm
by Red_Army
BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:43 am
Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Wed Nov 27, 2019 8:03 am
Just watched the clip where Corbyn gets skewered by Neill. He'd do a lot of favours for himself if he didn't give the impression the biggest injustice of all this was him having to answer questions repeatedly on it.
If the overwhelming majority of British Jewish people think that Labour has a serious problem with anti semitism, as the polling suggests, then that should be it. It's not for any other group to claim they are being duped by a media conspiracy or to imply there is an ulterior motive behind it.
There's an obvious double standard in holding up Warsi's critique of the Tory party as islamophobic as proof of that, yet downplaying the fact that multiple Jewish MP's have left the Labour party due to being uncomfortable with the atmosphere and leadership on anti semitism. The memberships reaction to this whole shitshow has been so weirdly inward looking and defensive. Booing and attacking journalists for asking legitimate questions is straight Trumpian.
The overwhelming majority? Based on what? The Labour party doesn't have a problem, left wing politics has a problem. The combination of not knowing or agreeing with the definition of anti-semitism and using poor language choices when showing support for Palestine is at the root cause of it. A woman phoned James O'Brien yesterday and claimed this echoes Nazi Germany. Utter f*cking ridiculous statement that does nothing to help matters.
What more can Corbyn do?
You've correctly identified the problem. The problem is that Corbyn as leader of the Labour Party didn't make clear that this was unacceptable early on and let it get out of hand.
Labour should have adopted the IHRA definition early on without caveat.
Re: Chief Rabbi speaks
Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 6:48 pm
by Max B Gold
Red_Army wrote: ↑Wed Nov 27, 2019 6:44 pm
BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:43 am
Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Wed Nov 27, 2019 8:03 am
Just watched the clip where Corbyn gets skewered by Neill. He'd do a lot of favours for himself if he didn't give the impression the biggest injustice of all this was him having to answer questions repeatedly on it.
If the overwhelming majority of British Jewish people think that Labour has a serious problem with anti semitism, as the polling suggests, then that should be it. It's not for any other group to claim they are being duped by a media conspiracy or to imply there is an ulterior motive behind it.
There's an obvious double standard in holding up Warsi's critique of the Tory party as islamophobic as proof of that, yet downplaying the fact that multiple Jewish MP's have left the Labour party due to being uncomfortable with the atmosphere and leadership on anti semitism. The memberships reaction to this whole shitshow has been so weirdly inward looking and defensive. Booing and attacking journalists for asking legitimate questions is straight Trumpian.
The overwhelming majority? Based on what? The Labour party doesn't have a problem, left wing politics has a problem. The combination of not knowing or agreeing with the definition of anti-semitism and using poor language choices when showing support for Palestine is at the root cause of it. A woman phoned James O'Brien yesterday and claimed this echoes Nazi Germany. Utter f*cking ridiculous statement that does nothing to help matters.
What more can Corbyn do?
You've correctly identified the problem. The problem is that Corbyn as leader of the Labour Party didn't make clear that this was unacceptable early on and let it get out of hand.
Labour should have adopted the IHRA definition early on without caveat.
Bit difficult to deal with generalised non specific made up accusations and of course to apologise for them.
It's not like nothing was done. The investigation and disciplinary procedures were improved and cases dealt with faster. Remember these allegations involve only 0.03% of the membership.
Re: Chief Rabbi speaks
Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 7:37 pm
by Red_Army
Max B Gold wrote: ↑Wed Nov 27, 2019 6:48 pm
Red_Army wrote: ↑Wed Nov 27, 2019 6:44 pm
BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:43 am
The overwhelming majority? Based on what? The Labour party doesn't have a problem, left wing politics has a problem. The combination of not knowing or agreeing with the definition of anti-semitism and using poor language choices when showing support for Palestine is at the root cause of it. A woman phoned James O'Brien yesterday and claimed this echoes Nazi Germany. Utter f*cking ridiculous statement that does nothing to help matters.
What more can Corbyn do?
You've correctly identified the problem. The problem is that Corbyn as leader of the Labour Party didn't make clear that this was unacceptable early on and let it get out of hand.
Labour should have adopted the IHRA definition early on without caveat.
Bit difficult to deal with generalised non specific made up accusations and of course to apologise for them.
It's not like nothing was done. The investigation and disciplinary procedures were improved and cases dealt with faster. Remember these allegations involve only 0.03% of the membership.
So you think that they are made up, but Corbyn has apologised previously?
Re: Chief Rabbi speaks
Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 7:43 pm
by Thor
They are only getting investigated 4 times faster max. The fact that nothing happened for 4 years means only 1 a year gets looked at!!
Re: Chief Rabbi speaks
Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 7:50 pm
by Ronnie Hotdogs
dOh Nut wrote: ↑Wed Nov 27, 2019 6:08 pm
RedO wrote: ↑Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:51 am
BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:43 am
The overwhelming majority? Based on what? The Labour party doesn't have a problem, left wing politics has a problem. The combination of not knowing or agreeing with the definition of anti-semitism and using poor language choices when showing support for Palestine is at the root cause of it. A woman phoned James O'Brien yesterday and claimed this echoes Nazi Germany. Utter f*cking ridiculous statement that does nothing to help matters.
What more can Corbyn do?
Step down and let a centrist take the reins. The issues will disappear instantly.
Amen to that. I hope this will be the main result from the next election. If so it will be a worthwhile one.
I think you might have missed my point.
Re: Chief Rabbi speaks
Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 8:45 pm
by Max B Gold
Red_Army wrote: ↑Wed Nov 27, 2019 7:37 pm
Max B Gold wrote: ↑Wed Nov 27, 2019 6:48 pm
Red_Army wrote: ↑Wed Nov 27, 2019 6:44 pm
You've correctly identified the problem. The problem is that Corbyn as leader of the Labour Party didn't make clear that this was unacceptable early on and let it get out of hand.
Labour should have adopted the IHRA definition early on without caveat.
Bit difficult to deal with generalised non specific made up accusations and of course to apologise for them.
It's not like nothing was done. The investigation and disciplinary procedures were improved and cases dealt with faster. Remember these allegations involve only 0.03% of the membership.
So you think that they are made up, but Corbyn has apologised previously?
The ones from the Chief Rabbi yes. The ones dealt with by the disciplinary procedures no.
Remember that the Orthodox Branch of judaism has a poor record of confronting anti-Semitism head on because as zionists they believe all Jews should move to Israel and a hostile environment in the UK may enable that.
Jeremy has condemned racism and anti-semitism many times and has apologised for not dealing with them effectively in the early days.
Don't forget the volume of complaints was significant and often not involving actual party members. It was a tactic of the right wing in the party to try and overwhelm the Party officials with complaints and then complain about that too. Thus feeding the issue and keeping it in the media.
It is all part of a strategy by the Right in Labour to discredit JC and wreck the chances of a Leftish Labour Party coming to power.
My understanding is that the matter is now under control as JC has provided more resource and manpower.
Re: Chief Rabbi speaks
Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 8:53 pm
by BiggsyMalone
Red_Army wrote: ↑Wed Nov 27, 2019 6:44 pm
BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:43 am
Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Wed Nov 27, 2019 8:03 am
Just watched the clip where Corbyn gets skewered by Neill. He'd do a lot of favours for himself if he didn't give the impression the biggest injustice of all this was him having to answer questions repeatedly on it.
If the overwhelming majority of British Jewish people think that Labour has a serious problem with anti semitism, as the polling suggests, then that should be it. It's not for any other group to claim they are being duped by a media conspiracy or to imply there is an ulterior motive behind it.
There's an obvious double standard in holding up Warsi's critique of the Tory party as islamophobic as proof of that, yet downplaying the fact that multiple Jewish MP's have left the Labour party due to being uncomfortable with the atmosphere and leadership on anti semitism. The memberships reaction to this whole shitshow has been so weirdly inward looking and defensive. Booing and attacking journalists for asking legitimate questions is straight Trumpian.
The overwhelming majority? Based on what? The Labour party doesn't have a problem, left wing politics has a problem. The combination of not knowing or agreeing with the definition of anti-semitism and using poor language choices when showing support for Palestine is at the root cause of it. A woman phoned James O'Brien yesterday and claimed this echoes Nazi Germany. Utter f*cking ridiculous statement that does nothing to help matters.
What more can Corbyn do?
You've correctly identified the problem. The problem is that Corbyn as leader of the Labour Party didn't make clear that this was unacceptable early on and let it get out of hand.
Labour should have adopted the IHRA definition early on without caveat.
That part I agree with but they have adopted it. Most of the 'anti-semitism' comes from knobheads on the internet that have latched onto Labour because the new policies speak to them. It's no different from people on the right targetting everyone that isn't white.
Re: Chief Rabbi speaks
Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:03 pm
by Red_Army
Max B Gold wrote: ↑Wed Nov 27, 2019 8:45 pm
Red_Army wrote: ↑Wed Nov 27, 2019 7:37 pm
Max B Gold wrote: ↑Wed Nov 27, 2019 6:48 pm
Bit difficult to deal with generalised non specific made up accusations and of course to apologise for them.
It's not like nothing was done. The investigation and disciplinary procedures were improved and cases dealt with faster. Remember these allegations involve only 0.03% of the membership.
So you think that they are made up, but Corbyn has apologised previously?
The ones from the Chief Rabbi yes. The ones dealt with by the disciplinary procedures no.
Remember that the Orthodox Branch of judaism has a poor record of confronting anti-Semitism head on because as zionists they believe all Jews should move to Israel and a hostile environment in the UK may enable that.
Jeremy has condemned racism and anti-semitism many times and has apologised for not dealing with them effectively in the early days.
Don't forget the volume of complaints was significant and often not involving actual party members. It was a tactic of the right wing in the party to try and overwhelm the Party officials with complaints and then complain about that too. Thus feeding the issue and keeping it in the media.
It is all part of a strategy by the Right in Labour to discredit JC and wreck the chances of a Leftish Labour Party coming to power.
My understanding is that the matter is now under control as JC has provided more resource and manpower.
You can be a Zionist and not think all Jews should move to Israel.
Re: Chief Rabbi speaks
Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:31 pm
by F*ck The Poor & Fat
Max B Gold wrote: ↑Wed Nov 27, 2019 8:45 pm
Red_Army wrote: ↑Wed Nov 27, 2019 7:37 pm
Max B Gold wrote: ↑Wed Nov 27, 2019 6:48 pm
Bit difficult to deal with generalised non specific made up accusations and of course to apologise for them.
It's not like nothing was done. The investigation and disciplinary procedures were improved and cases dealt with faster. Remember these allegations involve only 0.03% of the membership.
So you think that they are made up, but Corbyn has apologised previously?
The ones from the Chief Rabbi yes. The ones dealt with by the disciplinary procedures no.
Remember that the Orthodox Branch of judaism has a poor record of confronting anti-Semitism head on because as zionists they believe all Jews should move to Israel and a hostile environment in the UK may enable that.
Jeremy has condemned racism and anti-semitism many times and has apologised for not dealing with them effectively in the early days.
Don't forget the volume of complaints was significant and often not involving actual party members. It was a tactic of the right wing in the party to try and overwhelm the Party officials with complaints and then complain about that too. Thus feeding the issue and keeping it in the media.
It is all part of a strategy by the Right in Labour to discredit JC and wreck the chances of a Leftish Labour Party coming to power.
My understanding is that the matter is now under control as JC has provided more resource and manpower.
It’s all a conspiracy Max. There are no issues, just people making stuff up. Fair enough.
Re: Chief Rabbi speaks
Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:42 pm
by Max B Gold
dOh Nut wrote: ↑Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:31 pm
Max B Gold wrote: ↑Wed Nov 27, 2019 8:45 pm
Red_Army wrote: ↑Wed Nov 27, 2019 7:37 pm
So you think that they are made up, but Corbyn has apologised previously?
The ones from the Chief Rabbi yes. The ones dealt with by the disciplinary procedures no.
Remember that the Orthodox Branch of judaism has a poor record of confronting anti-Semitism head on because as zionists they believe all Jews should move to Israel and a hostile environment in the UK may enable that.
Jeremy has condemned racism and anti-semitism many times and has apologised for not dealing with them effectively in the early days.
Don't forget the volume of complaints was significant and often not involving actual party members. It was a tactic of the right wing in the party to try and overwhelm the Party officials with complaints and then complain about that too. Thus feeding the issue and keeping it in the media.
It is all part of a strategy by the Right in Labour to discredit JC and wreck the chances of a Leftish Labour Party coming to power.
My understanding is that the matter is now under control as JC has provided more resource and manpower.
It’s all a conspiracy Max. There are no issues, just people making stuff up. Fair enough.
That's not what I'm saying fukwit.
Re: Chief Rabbi speaks
Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:44 pm
by Max B Gold
Red_Army wrote: ↑Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:03 pm
Max B Gold wrote: ↑Wed Nov 27, 2019 8:45 pm
Red_Army wrote: ↑Wed Nov 27, 2019 7:37 pm
So you think that they are made up, but Corbyn has apologised previously?
The ones from the Chief Rabbi yes. The ones dealt with by the disciplinary procedures no.
Remember that the Orthodox Branch of judaism has a poor record of confronting anti-Semitism head on because as zionists they believe all Jews should move to Israel and a hostile environment in the UK may enable that.
Jeremy has condemned racism and anti-semitism many times and has apologised for not dealing with them effectively in the early days.
Don't forget the volume of complaints was significant and often not involving actual party members. It was a tactic of the right wing in the party to try and overwhelm the Party officials with complaints and then complain about that too. Thus feeding the issue and keeping it in the media.
It is all part of a strategy by the Right in Labour to discredit JC and wreck the chances of a Leftish Labour Party coming to power.
My understanding is that the matter is now under control as JC has provided more resource and manpower.
You can be a Zionist and not think all Jews should move to Israel.
Indeed and I haven't said otherwise.
Re: Chief Rabbi speaks
Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:03 pm
by Red_Army
Max B Gold wrote: ↑Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:44 pm
Red_Army wrote: ↑Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:03 pm
Max B Gold wrote: ↑Wed Nov 27, 2019 8:45 pm
The ones from the Chief Rabbi yes. The ones dealt with by the disciplinary procedures no.
Remember that the Orthodox Branch of judaism has a poor record of confronting anti-Semitism head on because as zionists they believe all Jews should move to Israel and a hostile environment in the UK may enable that.
Jeremy has condemned racism and anti-semitism many times and has apologised for not dealing with them effectively in the early days.
Don't forget the volume of complaints was significant and often not involving actual party members. It was a tactic of the right wing in the party to try and overwhelm the Party officials with complaints and then complain about that too. Thus feeding the issue and keeping it in the media.
It is all part of a strategy by the Right in Labour to discredit JC and wreck the chances of a Leftish Labour Party coming to power.
My understanding is that the matter is now under control as JC has provided more resource and manpower.
You can be a Zionist and not think all Jews should move to Israel.
Indeed and I haven't said otherwise.
"as zionists they believe all Jews should move to Israel"
Re: Chief Rabbi speaks
Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:16 pm
by Max B Gold
Red_Army wrote: ↑Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:03 pm
Max B Gold wrote: ↑Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:44 pm
Red_Army wrote: ↑Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:03 pm
You can be a Zionist and not think all Jews should move to Israel.
Indeed and I haven't said otherwise.
"as zionists they believe all Jews should move to Israel"
Seriously. You have just taken it completely out of context. The "they" being referred to are the Orthodox Community represented by Mirvis. They are zionists who believe that Jews should return to Israel.
Re: Chief Rabbi speaks
Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:17 pm
by Red_Army
'They as Zionists' reads as if all Zionists think that way.
If you've mis-worded then that's absolutely fine.
Re: Chief Rabbi speaks
Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:48 pm
by Max B Gold
Red_Army wrote: ↑Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:17 pm
'They as Zionists' reads as if all Zionists think that way.
If you've mis-worded then that's absolutely fine.
No it doesn't. But as we are in agreement already I see no further need to comment further on your inability to read and comprehend.
Re: Chief Rabbi speaks
Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2019 9:46 am
by Red_Army
Max B Gold wrote: ↑Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:48 pm
Red_Army wrote: ↑Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:17 pm
'They as Zionists' reads as if all Zionists think that way.
If you've mis-worded then that's absolutely fine.
No it doesn't. But as we are in agreement already I see no further need to comment further on your inability to read and comprehend.
I think the onus is on you to get your wording correct when talking about a sensitive issue.
Re: Chief Rabbi speaks
Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2019 1:05 pm
by Max B Gold
Clearly it is a sensitive issue but your obsession with mere semantics when no mischief was intended is yet another indication that some people need to take a step back and have a think about what they are contributing to the issue.
