Page 5 of 267
Re: Labour Watch
Posted: Fri May 24, 2019 5:54 pm
by Max B Gold
dOh Nut wrote: ↑Fri May 24, 2019 5:47 pm
Max B Gold wrote: ↑Fri May 24, 2019 4:23 pm
slacker wrote: ↑Fri May 24, 2019 3:07 pm
I think the heartlands Labour Leave voter “problem” is made too much of. Agree it was fine to sit on the fence/sidelines and let the Tories fully own the mess of their own making, but the time for triangulating and mixed messages - depending which frontline bod is answering - is coming to an end.
Labour are committed to Brexit and respecting the vote. They do however want a workable agreement that doesn't wreck the economy, undermine workers and spark violence in Norn Iron.
Where is the mixed message in that ?
The mixed message is how they can procrastinate by saying any agreement is unworkable. A simple way of helping create sh*t without actually saying anything positive.
All of the agreements proposed by the Tories so far have been unworkable. They are the ones making the sh*t sandwiches not Labour.
Re: Labour Watch
Posted: Fri May 24, 2019 6:21 pm
by CreamofSumYungGai
dOh Nut wrote: ↑Fri May 24, 2019 5:47 pm
Max B Gold wrote: ↑Fri May 24, 2019 4:23 pm
slacker wrote: ↑Fri May 24, 2019 3:07 pm
I think the heartlands Labour Leave voter “problem” is made too much of. Agree it was fine to sit on the fence/sidelines and let the Tories fully own the mess of their own making, but the time for triangulating and mixed messages - depending which frontline bod is answering - is coming to an end.
Labour are committed to Brexit and respecting the vote. They do however want a workable agreement that doesn't wreck the economy, undermine workers and spark violence in Norn Iron.
Where is the mixed message in that ?
The mixed message is how they can procrastinate by saying any agreement is unworkable. A simple way of helping create sh*t without actually saying anything positive.
All the agreements have been unworkable so far.
Re: Labour Watch
Posted: Fri May 24, 2019 7:06 pm
by F*ck The Poor & Fat
CreamofSumYungGai wrote: ↑Fri May 24, 2019 6:21 pm
dOh Nut wrote: ↑Fri May 24, 2019 5:47 pm
Max B Gold wrote: ↑Fri May 24, 2019 4:23 pm
Labour are committed to Brexit and respecting the vote. They do however want a workable agreement that doesn't wreck the economy, undermine workers and spark violence in Norn Iron.
Where is the mixed message in that ?
The mixed message is how they can procrastinate by saying any agreement is unworkable. A simple way of helping create sh*t without actually saying anything positive.
All the agreements have been unworkable so far.
You don’t know that for sure. Nobody does. The issues with the agreement have less to do with whether it’s good or not and more to do with politicians playing games, the Tories who want to be leader and Corbyn and Sturgeon wanting a GE. I see Corbyn has already called for one.
Self serving politicians who care more about their personal ambitions than the country and voters they serve.
Re: Labour Watch
Posted: Fri May 24, 2019 7:08 pm
by StillSpike
Do you suppose there might be an outside chance that these "self serving" politicians might just believe that the country and voters that they serve might be better served with them in charge?
Re: Labour Watch
Posted: Fri May 24, 2019 8:16 pm
by Thor
Max B Gold wrote: ↑Fri May 24, 2019 4:23 pm
slacker wrote: ↑Fri May 24, 2019 3:07 pm
I think the heartlands Labour Leave voter “problem” is made too much of. Agree it was fine to sit on the fence/sidelines and let the Tories fully own the mess of their own making, but the time for triangulating and mixed messages - depending which frontline bod is answering - is coming to an end.
Labour are committed to Brexit and respecting the vote. They do however want a workable agreement that doesn't wreck the economy, undermine workers and spark violence in Norn Iron.
Where is the mixed message in that ?
Agree with you Max. However, Comrade Cornyn is anti establishment, how far does that actually go? I believe he wants out on a personal level and has done for many years, but how far does that go? And what would that entail for workers rights etc?
Re: Labour Watch
Posted: Fri May 24, 2019 9:45 pm
by Disoriented
dOh Nut wrote: ↑Fri May 24, 2019 7:06 pm
CreamofSumYungGai wrote: ↑Fri May 24, 2019 6:21 pm
dOh Nut wrote: ↑Fri May 24, 2019 5:47 pm
The mixed message is how they can procrastinate by saying any agreement is unworkable. A simple way of helping create sh*t without actually saying anything positive.
All the agreements have been unworkable so far.
You don’t know that for sure. Nobody does. The issues with the agreement have less to do with whether it’s good or not and more to do with politicians playing games, the Tories who want to be leader and Corbyn and Sturgeon wanting a GE. I see Corbyn has already called for one.
Self serving politicians who care more about their personal ambitions than the country and voters they serve.
What about the remain supporters? Don’t they matter?
Re: Labour Watch
Posted: Fri May 24, 2019 10:24 pm
by Max B Gold
Thor wrote: ↑Fri May 24, 2019 8:16 pm
Max B Gold wrote: ↑Fri May 24, 2019 4:23 pm
slacker wrote: ↑Fri May 24, 2019 3:07 pm
I think the heartlands Labour Leave voter “problem” is made too much of. Agree it was fine to sit on the fence/sidelines and let the Tories fully own the mess of their own making, but the time for triangulating and mixed messages - depending which frontline bod is answering - is coming to an end.
Labour are committed to Brexit and respecting the vote. They do however want a workable agreement that doesn't wreck the economy, undermine workers and spark violence in Norn Iron.
Where is the mixed message in that ?
Agree with you Max. However, Comrade Cornyn is anti establishment, how far does that actually go? I believe he wants out on a personal level and has done for many years, but how far does that go? And what would that entail for workers rights etc?
One question for you.
What do you mean when you use the word Establishment?
Re: Labour Watch
Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 2:48 am
by Thor
A group of people or companies that hold power over people. Some of them are elected MP’s for example, and some of them are not, House of Lords. The monarchy, Bank of England, a political elite who controls what happens in society. The church and religion comes in to it as does the military too.
They don’t want change and want to keep the status quo flowing.
You have the companies who want what they want and use their power to brief the government to provide the rules and laws that they need or want to succeed. Then you have the media who set the agenda that people grasp onto. The politicians then work to appease all of them whilst simultaneously taking money from both groups and or end up working for big business in the long term having helped to establish laws that helped and supported that business for example. I don’t like that part for sure, I believe that all mp’s should not have second incomes, not have a second job otherwise they can become corrupted by influence. Let’s face it if they can’t live on £80k then they have a problem.
Going back to Corbyn, he is against the House of Lords in its current set up, he is against the monarchy, he is against the military or at least using it for its intended purpose. He is against big business creaming the cream off the top and more for redistribution of wealth to the lower end of society or at least trying to make it more equal. All these points puts him in the anti establishment camp.
His past is anti EU and has been since the early 70’s, which for me is not a problem, he is still against it now however, you will not hear him directly say that any longer for fear of upsetting labour voters in London for example, however a little tweak on that and he keeps the Brexiteer labour voters in the traditional northern heartlands sweat. The trouble is he’s sending out a mixed message, which is contrary to his own beliefs all in the quest to obtain power.
Re: Labour Watch
Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 9:06 am
by CreamofSumYungGai
Thor wrote: ↑Sat May 25, 2019 2:48 am
A group of people or companies that hold power over people. Some of them are elected MP’s for example, and some of them are not, House of Lords. The monarchy, Bank of England, a political elite who controls what happens in society. The church and religion comes in to it as does the military too.
They don’t want change and want to keep the status quo flowing.
You have the companies who want what they want and use their power to brief the government to provide the rules and laws that they need or want to succeed. Then you have the media who set the agenda that people grasp onto. The politicians then work to appease all of them whilst simultaneously taking money from both groups and or end up working for big business in the long term having helped to establish laws that helped and supported that business for example. I don’t like that part for sure, I believe that all mp’s should not have second incomes, not have a second job otherwise they can become corrupted by influence. Let’s face it if they can’t live on £80k then they have a problem.
Going back to Corbyn, he is against the House of Lords in its current set up, he is against the monarchy, he is against the military or at least using it for its intended purpose. He is against big business creaming the cream off the top and more for redistribution of wealth to the lower end of society or at least trying to make it more equal. All these points puts him in the anti establishment camp.
His past is anti EU and has been since the early 70’s, which for me is not a problem, he is still against it now however, you will not hear him directly say that any longer for fear of upsetting labour voters in London for example, however a little tweak on that and he keeps the Brexiteer labour voters in the traditional northern heartlands sweat. The trouble is he’s sending out a mixed message, which is contrary to his own beliefs all in the quest to obtain power.
You sound like a right corbynista, be careful.
Re: Labour Watch
Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 11:42 pm
by Max B Gold
Thor wrote: ↑Sat May 25, 2019 2:48 am
A group of people or companies that hold power over people. Some of them are elected MP’s for example, and some of them are not, House of Lords. The monarchy, Bank of England, a political elite who controls what happens in society. The church and religion comes in to it as does the military too.
They don’t want change and want to keep the status quo flowing.
You have the companies who want what they want and use their power to brief the government to provide the rules and laws that they need or want to succeed. Then you have the media who set the agenda that people grasp onto. The politicians then work to appease all of them whilst simultaneously taking money from both groups and or end up working for big business in the long term having helped to establish laws that helped and supported that business for example. I don’t like that part for sure, I believe that all mp’s should not have second incomes, not have a second job otherwise they can become corrupted by influence. Let’s face it if they can’t live on £80k then they have a problem.
Going back to Corbyn, he is against the House of Lords in its current set up, he is against the monarchy, he is against the military or at least using it for its intended purpose. He is against big business creaming the cream off the top and more for redistribution of wealth to the lower end of society or at least trying to make it more equal. All these points puts him in the anti establishment camp.
His past is anti EU and has been since the early 70’s, which for me is not a problem, he is still against it now however, you will not hear him directly say that any longer for fear of upsetting labour voters in London for example, however a little tweak on that and he keeps the Brexiteer labour voters in the traditional northern heartlands sweat. The trouble is he’s sending out a mixed message, which is contrary to his own beliefs all in the quest to obtain power.
Ah the old quest for power argument just for the sake of it because that's all those who seek it want to do. Jerry wants power to improve the lives of the working class in the UK.
Theresa wanted power to prove her self ("civic duty" bollox) and promote the interests of a narrow rich ruling class.
Re: Labour Watch
Posted: Sun May 26, 2019 10:17 pm
by F*ck The Poor & Fat
Disoriented wrote: ↑Fri May 24, 2019 9:45 pm
dOh Nut wrote: ↑Fri May 24, 2019 7:06 pm
CreamofSumYungGai wrote: ↑Fri May 24, 2019 6:21 pm
All the agreements have been unworkable so far.
You don’t know that for sure. Nobody does. The issues with the agreement have less to do with whether it’s good or not and more to do with politicians playing games, the Tories who want to be leader and Corbyn and Sturgeon wanting a GE. I see Corbyn has already called for one.
Self serving politicians who care more about their personal ambitions than the country and voters they serve.
What about the remain supporters? Don’t they matter?
The leave supporters matter too and there were more of them. Ergo they matter more.
Re: Labour Watch
Posted: Sun May 26, 2019 11:11 pm
by F*ck The Poor & Fat
Max B Gold wrote: ↑Fri May 24, 2019 4:23 pm
slacker wrote: ↑Fri May 24, 2019 3:07 pm
I think the heartlands Labour Leave voter “problem” is made too much of. Agree it was fine to sit on the fence/sidelines and let the Tories fully own the mess of their own making, but the time for triangulating and mixed messages - depending which frontline bod is answering - is coming to an end.
Labour are committed to Brexit and respecting the vote. They do however want a workable agreement that doesn't wreck the economy, undermine workers and spark violence in Norn Iron.
Where is the mixed message in that ?
Seems Claire Thornbury feels the Labour message going into the Euro elections was not clear enough, hence their poor showing. Just read that following the results. No sh*t Sherlock. Who the heck knows what Labour stand for. Fence sitting par excellence
Re: Labour Watch
Posted: Sun May 26, 2019 11:29 pm
by CreamofSumYungGai
It’s really not difficult to understand what their position is. Even you should get it.
Re: Labour Watch
Posted: Sun May 26, 2019 11:37 pm
by Thor
CreamofSumYungGai wrote: ↑Sun May 26, 2019 11:29 pm
It’s really not difficult to understand what their position is. Even you should get it.
What do you think that is then?
Re: Labour Watch
Posted: Sun May 26, 2019 11:41 pm
by CreamofSumYungGai
MBG has spelt it out in the previous page. It’s really not complicated.
Disagree with it by all means, but don’t plead ignorance of their stance.
Re: Labour Watch
Posted: Sun May 26, 2019 11:41 pm
by Thor
I agreed with what he said actually, just wondered if you thought it was something else.
Re: Labour Watch
Posted: Sun May 26, 2019 11:44 pm
by Thor
After tonight’s whipping is it time for Corbyn to go? It would appear that the Labour Party is not listening to its core base, and the wider country. Is the party what the country requires? I don’t think it is, there is a lack of leadership at the top of the Labour Party and if we place Brexit to one side, what are their policies, what do they stand for? No one knows and that’s part of the problem people have.
Re: Labour Watch
Posted: Sun May 26, 2019 11:51 pm
by CreamofSumYungGai
Re: Labour Watch
Posted: Mon May 27, 2019 12:13 am
by ComeOnYouOs
Thor wrote: ↑Sun May 26, 2019 11:44 pm
After tonight’s whipping is it time for Corbyn to go? It would appear that the Labour Party is not listening to its core base, and the wider country. Is the party what the country requires? I don’t think it is, there is a lack of leadership at the top of the Labour Party and if we place Brexit to one side, what are their policies, what do they stand for? No one knows and that’s part of the problem people have.
Are you for real?
Re: Labour Watch
Posted: Mon May 27, 2019 12:40 am
by Thor
ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2019 12:13 am
Thor wrote: ↑Sun May 26, 2019 11:44 pm
After tonight’s whipping is it time for Corbyn to go? It would appear that the Labour Party is not listening to its core base, and the wider country. Is the party what the country requires? I don’t think it is, there is a lack of leadership at the top of the Labour Party and if we place Brexit to one side, what are their policies, what do they stand for? No one knows and that’s part of the problem people have.
Are you for real?
After the drubbing in the euro elections, it is quite clear the voters are letting labour know we want Brexit, the people are not happy with the party, even less so with the leader. So should Corbyn resign? The people have rejected him.
Re: Labour Watch
Posted: Mon May 27, 2019 1:53 am
by Orientinoz
ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2019 12:13 am
Thor wrote: ↑Sun May 26, 2019 11:44 pm
After tonight’s whipping is it time for Corbyn to go? It would appear that the Labour Party is not listening to its core base, and the wider country. Is the party what the country requires? I don’t think it is, there is a lack of leadership at the top of the Labour Party and if we place Brexit to one side, what are their policies, what do they stand for? No one knows and that’s part of the problem people have.
Are you for real?
Could be COYOS, based on the EU results for Islington Corbs could be unemployed after a general election..
Re: Labour Watch
Posted: Mon May 27, 2019 6:52 am
by Thor
Is Thornberry going to make a make a move as shes been quite vocal on the parties failure.
Re: Labour Watch
Posted: Mon May 27, 2019 7:18 am
by Sid Bishop
Thor wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2019 6:52 am
Is Thornberry going to make a make a move as shes been quite vocal on the parties failure.
The faces Thornberry was pulling on the tv last night, she looked like a bulldog forced to swallow a wasp !!
As normal, she was as arrogant as ever, forever talking over anyone who tried to get a word in.
Abbott and Thornberry, what a win double !!
Re: Labour Watch
Posted: Mon May 27, 2019 7:50 am
by Thor
I saw her last week being interviewed by Piers Morgan and she was proper rude, rolling her eyes etc. I bet shes a nightmare to live with.
Re: Labour Watch
Posted: Mon May 27, 2019 8:11 am
by F*ck The Poor & Fat
CreamofSumYungGai wrote: ↑Sun May 26, 2019 11:29 pm
It’s really not difficult to understand what their position is. Even you should get it.
I understand pretty well. The issue is with people so full of blind support for this or that person or party they fail to see the truth of the situation. One of the benefits I have with no allegiance to either party. Right now they are both crap, with crap leaders and in the case of the Tories about to appoint another crap leader.
To be fair I look down the list of people jockeying for poll position in both major parties and struggle to see many that I would vote for. What a sad time in British politics.
