Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Disoriented wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2019 8:46 pm

O my gawd wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2019 8:08 pm

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2019 7:56 pm
He looks lost in every game. He’s blowing out of his arse after 10 mins because he’s physically and mentally knackered. Watch him next time he’s trying to get back in position, he’s like a p*ssed Nan trying to get off of the dance floor

So relentless you must have issues

Making jokes about mental illness, or inferring that someone needs professional help because you disagree with their view, is reprehensible.

Of course, there we go. Ok to tirelessly have digs at a young player & you let it carry on. Yet a bit of criticism in return & you go all snowflakey.

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2019 8:55 pm

O my gawd wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2019 8:08 pm

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2019 7:56 pm
He looks lost in every game. He’s blowing out of his arse after 10 mins because he’s physically and mentally knackered. Watch him next time he’s trying to get back in position, he’s like a p*ssed Nan trying to get off of the dance floor

So relentless you must have issues

Who are you?

Just a normal fan tired of the sh1te you post.

O my gawd wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:48 pm

Disoriented wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2019 8:46 pm

O my gawd wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2019 8:08 pm

So relentless you must have issues

Making jokes about mental illness, or inferring that someone needs professional help because you disagree with their view, is reprehensible.

Of course, there we go. Ok to tirelessly have digs at a young player & you let it carry on. Yet a bit of criticism in return & you go all snowflakey.

So, to make this clear, you are saying it is okay to make jokes about mental illness?

Childish comments and mental illness is no joke.

Back to the comments re Turley, I don’t see him playing right back as Lings got thatnsealed down right now, rightly or wrongly depending on your views on him. However, we are not exactly covering ourselves in glory at centre half, I think that’s where we will see him played, big, strong, quick and has played at this level previously. Just needs to get match fit.

Disoriented wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2019 6:06 am

O my gawd wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:48 pm

Disoriented wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2019 8:46 pm

Making jokes about mental illness, or inferring that someone needs professional help because you disagree with their view, is reprehensible.

Of course, there we go. Ok to tirelessly have digs at a young player & you let it carry on. Yet a bit of criticism in return & you go all snowflakey.

So, to make this clear, you are saying it is okay to make jokes about mental illness?

Of course not, but it's OK for certain boarders to carry on with relentless online abuse on some individuals at the club. How do you know if that isn't causing any mental illness?
Some people really need to take a long hard look at themselves with some of their posts.

Disoriented wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2019 6:06 am

O my gawd wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:48 pm

Disoriented wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2019 8:46 pm

Making jokes about mental illness, or inferring that someone needs professional help because you disagree with their view, is reprehensible.

Of course, there we go. Ok to tirelessly have digs at a young player & you let it carry on. Yet a bit of criticism in return & you go all snowflakey.

So, to make this clear, you are saying it is okay to make jokes about mental illness?

Don’t really want to get involved other that to suggest someone is physically and mentally tired is not making jokes about mental illness, just talking about fatigue. That’s how I see it.

gshaw wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2019 7:47 pm

dOh Nut wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2019 7:38 pm He has had plenty of chances whilst Judd gets the scraps. This is what I find galling. We don’t know who is the better of the two because Judd ain’t getting his shot. We can only speculate that being the DoFs son makes a difference. I reckon it does.

Trouble is Judd seems to be made of glass. Plays one random tinpot cup game and then injured for weeks. Similarly seems to get injured without even playing.

As above getting Turley back would add a bit more experience and steel to the backline.

That's the one fair criticism of Judd, he suffered with a lot of injuries last season. But then again, so did Lingy. He was out just as much.

RedO wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:05 am

gshaw wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2019 7:47 pm

dOh Nut wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2019 7:38 pm He has had plenty of chances whilst Judd gets the scraps. This is what I find galling. We don’t know who is the better of the two because Judd ain’t getting his shot. We can only speculate that being the DoFs son makes a difference. I reckon it does.

Trouble is Judd seems to be made of glass. Plays one random tinpot cup game and then injured for weeks. Similarly seems to get injured without even playing.

As above getting Turley back would add a bit more experience and steel to the backline.

That's the one fair criticism of Judd, he suffered with a lot of injuries last season. But then again, so did Lingy. He was out just as much.

I like Juddy but you have to remember he's still very young. If it wasn't for the Beelzebub mess, he would not have made an appearance for Orient so early, and would probably be at the same stage of his development as Sotiriou and Sargeant, and wouldn't be considered a first team player. I feel for him because he has flaws in his game still that will be exposed at this level, and is probably overrated because he is a youth team graduate and behind the DoFs son in the pecking order. The truth is though that right now Ling is a better player and that Juddy hasn't had a good game for Orient since 2018.

Agree with your assessment of Judd, he was thrown in earlier than he otherwise would have been, but he coped. Admirably.

I still refuse to accept that Ling is the better player. The only advantage he has over Myles is his long throw.

Let's be honest, if it wasn't for the family connection, Ling would not have been signed.

At the time he was brought in, there was arguably a need for another right back. Caprice had the shirt ahead of Myles, but was not exactly setting the world alight. But three right backs for the one position was massively overkill. Especially when we only had the one left back on our books.

If Justin had brought in an experienced right back to shore things up, let Caprice go, and continued to let Judd develop you could understand it. But to bring in another player of similar* quality, but even less experienced and still needing that time to develop just doesn't make any sense.

* whether you want to argue one is better than the other, you have to accept there isn't a huge amount to choose between them at present, although one clearly has the greater potential.

Fair assessments, I happen to think Ling edges Judd, but when either is playing I want them to do well.
Sometimes I get the impression from some boarders, that they're happy to see someone struggle or fail so they can have a dig.

O my gawd wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:52 pm

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2019 8:55 pm

O my gawd wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2019 8:08 pm

So relentless you must have issues

Who are you?

Just a normal fan tired of the sh1te you post.

Don’t read it then

O my gawd wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2019 11:20 am Fair assessments, I happen to think Ling edges Judd, but when either is playing I want them to do well.
Sometimes I get the impression from some boarders, that they're happy to see someone struggle or fail so they can have a dig.

I would be surprised if any real fan wants a player to do badly just to say “told you so”

Who edges it? Hard to say as we have yet to see Judd get a run of games. To me they are quite different types of player, Ling is less dynamic but some may say more reliable. Judd gets stuck in, rash at times, and likely to create more going forward but perhaps riskier at the back. I think perhaps that’s why JE went for Ling, the safer option, and it worked for us at that time.

Down to personal taste. I love aggressive attacking full backs, which is why I rated Caprice and Clohessy. Probably why I don’t rate Ling and prefer Judd. But Ling has the shirt and it’s his to lose, I doubt a new manager will play around too much early on.

dOh Nut wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:08 pm

O my gawd wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2019 11:20 am Fair assessments, I happen to think Ling edges Judd, but when either is playing I want them to do well.
Sometimes I get the impression from some boarders, that they're happy to see someone struggle or fail so they can have a dig.

I would be surprised if any real fan wants a player to do badly just to say “told you so”

Who edges it? Hard to say as we have yet to see Judd get a run of games. To me they are quite different types of player, Ling is less dynamic but some may say more reliable. Judd gets stuck in, rash at times, and likely to create more going forward but perhaps riskier at the back. I think perhaps that’s why JE went for Ling, the safer option, and it worked for us at that time.

Down to personal taste. I love aggressive attacking full backs, which is why I rated Caprice and Clohessy. Probably why I don’t rate Ling and prefer Judd. But Ling has the shirt and it’s his to lose, I doubt a new manager will play around too much early on.

I honestly can't believe people think that Judd is an 'attacking' full back. He's not even more 'attacking' than Ling. He's tenacious and gets stuck in, but he's not the sort of player who flies up and down the wing, getting crosses in.

I think it's just because Judd is quick.

Red_Army wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:23 pm

dOh Nut wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:08 pm

O my gawd wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2019 11:20 am Fair assessments, I happen to think Ling edges Judd, but when either is playing I want them to do well.
Sometimes I get the impression from some boarders, that they're happy to see someone struggle or fail so they can have a dig.

I would be surprised if any real fan wants a player to do badly just to say “told you so”

Who edges it? Hard to say as we have yet to see Judd get a run of games. To me they are quite different types of player, Ling is less dynamic but some may say more reliable. Judd gets stuck in, rash at times, and likely to create more going forward but perhaps riskier at the back. I think perhaps that’s why JE went for Ling, the safer option, and it worked for us at that time.

Down to personal taste. I love aggressive attacking full backs, which is why I rated Caprice and Clohessy. Probably why I don’t rate Ling and prefer Judd. But Ling has the shirt and it’s his to lose, I doubt a new manager will play around too much early on.

I honestly can't believe people think that Judd is an 'attacking' full back. He's not even more 'attacking' than Ling. He's tenacious and gets stuck in, but he's not the sort of player who flies up and down the wing, getting crosses in.

Flying up and down the wing getting stuck in works for me. And this he does. Like Ling, he is a young player learning his trade so we can expect parts of his game to improve with practice. But unlike Ling he will not get the chance to improve that aspect of his game.

Don’t really matter tbh. Short of Ling getting injured, and I don’t wish that on any player, Ling has got that spot for the season, short of a disaster, the Turley will step in.

O my gawd wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2019 11:20 am Fair assessments, I happen to think Ling edges Judd, but when either is playing I want them to do well.
Sometimes I get the impression from some boarders, that they're happy to see someone struggle or fail so they can have a dig.

They're different sides of the same coin in a way. Both similar stature physically, Judd is more outgoing in his approach, some might say rash but certainly gets stuck in. Ling more reserved, perhaps seen as more solid as a result but both liable to make defensive lapses.

They also both appear to suffer from lack of confidence, with Judd it was said the relegation season affected him despite being one of the best performers in that group of youth players. Ling similarly started off well when he first came in for Caprice but lost form badly and no doubt the signing of Turley came off the back of it.

One could argue that's down to their young ages and as above it is a bit of a strange place to be in having two developing RBs. Turley had made that spot his own by end of last season and no doubt would've started there this time around were it not for injury.

Personally want to see any player in our shirt succeed. Sometimes it doesn't happen for whatever reason and no amount of support will change it.

dOh Nut wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:08 pm

O my gawd wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2019 11:20 am Fair assessments, I happen to think Ling edges Judd, but when either is playing I want them to do well.
Sometimes I get the impression from some boarders, that they're happy to see someone struggle or fail so they can have a dig.

I would be surprised if any real fan wants a player to do badly just to say “told you so”

Who edges it? Hard to say as we have yet to see Judd get a run of games. To me they are quite different types of player, Ling is less dynamic but some may say more reliable. Judd gets stuck in, rash at times, and likely to create more going forward but perhaps riskier at the back. I think perhaps that’s why JE went for Ling, the safer option, and it worked for us at that time.

Down to personal taste. I love aggressive attacking full backs, which is why I rated Caprice and Clohessy. Probably why I don’t rate Ling and prefer Judd. But Ling has the shirt and it’s his to lose, I doubt a new manager will play around too much early on.

Remember Clohessy getting stick from fans, but I liked him as well. Terry Howard was a fave of mine & I really rated Mark Warren as well.

dOh Nut wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:33 pm

Red_Army wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:23 pm

dOh Nut wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:08 pm

I would be surprised if any real fan wants a player to do badly just to say “told you so”

Who edges it? Hard to say as we have yet to see Judd get a run of games. To me they are quite different types of player, Ling is less dynamic but some may say more reliable. Judd gets stuck in, rash at times, and likely to create more going forward but perhaps riskier at the back. I think perhaps that’s why JE went for Ling, the safer option, and it worked for us at that time.

Down to personal taste. I love aggressive attacking full backs, which is why I rated Caprice and Clohessy. Probably why I don’t rate Ling and prefer Judd. But Ling has the shirt and it’s his to lose, I doubt a new manager will play around too much early on.

I honestly can't believe people think that Judd is an 'attacking' full back. He's not even more 'attacking' than Ling. He's tenacious and gets stuck in, but he's not the sort of player who flies up and down the wing, getting crosses in.

Flying up and down the wing getting stuck in works for me. And this he does. Like Ling, he is a young player learning his trade so we can expect parts of his game to improve with practice. But unlike Ling he will not get the chance to improve that aspect of his game.

Don’t really matter tbh. Short of Ling getting injured, and I don’t wish that on any player, Ling has got that spot for the season, short of a disaster, the Turley will step in.

But Judd doesn't do that.

Red_Army wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:23 pm

dOh Nut wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:08 pm

O my gawd wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2019 11:20 am Fair assessments, I happen to think Ling edges Judd, but when either is playing I want them to do well.
Sometimes I get the impression from some boarders, that they're happy to see someone struggle or fail so they can have a dig.

I would be surprised if any real fan wants a player to do badly just to say “told you so”

Who edges it? Hard to say as we have yet to see Judd get a run of games. To me they are quite different types of player, Ling is less dynamic but some may say more reliable. Judd gets stuck in, rash at times, and likely to create more going forward but perhaps riskier at the back. I think perhaps that’s why JE went for Ling, the safer option, and it worked for us at that time.

Down to personal taste. I love aggressive attacking full backs, which is why I rated Caprice and Clohessy. Probably why I don’t rate Ling and prefer Judd. But Ling has the shirt and it’s his to lose, I doubt a new manager will play around too much early on.

I honestly can't believe people think that Judd is an 'attacking' full back. He's not even more 'attacking' than Ling. He's tenacious and gets stuck in, but he's not the sort of player who flies up and down the wing, getting crosses in.

There's no comparison between them offensively.

Judd will look to go forward as soon as we pick up the ball. He will provide another option. Even if doesn't get it, he occupies another defender. Ling will hold his position, some unkinder than me would say he hides. This is without doubt the biggest difference between the pair and the main reason I'd plump for Judd every single time.

Red_Army wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:17 pm

dOh Nut wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:33 pm

Red_Army wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:23 pm

I honestly can't believe people think that Judd is an 'attacking' full back. He's not even more 'attacking' than Ling. He's tenacious and gets stuck in, but he's not the sort of player who flies up and down the wing, getting crosses in.

Flying up and down the wing getting stuck in works for me. And this he does. Like Ling, he is a young player learning his trade so we can expect parts of his game to improve with practice. But unlike Ling he will not get the chance to improve that aspect of his game.

Don’t really matter tbh. Short of Ling getting injured, and I don’t wish that on any player, Ling has got that spot for the season, short of a disaster, the Turley will step in.

But Judd doesn't do that.

Assuming you are talking about Judd and injury, as someone mentioned it appears to be a weakness, or just a reflection of the type of player he is. Rash and getting stuck in.

This is without doubt a part of his game he needs to work on. He charges in too quickly, Ling in contrast holds off far too much. One takes responsibility the other does not. Both need to find that balance, that changes an average player into a good one. Judgement.

RedO wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:25 pm

Red_Army wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:23 pm

dOh Nut wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:08 pm

I would be surprised if any real fan wants a player to do badly just to say “told you so”

Who edges it? Hard to say as we have yet to see Judd get a run of games. To me they are quite different types of player, Ling is less dynamic but some may say more reliable. Judd gets stuck in, rash at times, and likely to create more going forward but perhaps riskier at the back. I think perhaps that’s why JE went for Ling, the safer option, and it worked for us at that time.

Down to personal taste. I love aggressive attacking full backs, which is why I rated Caprice and Clohessy. Probably why I don’t rate Ling and prefer Judd. But Ling has the shirt and it’s his to lose, I doubt a new manager will play around too much early on.

I honestly can't believe people think that Judd is an 'attacking' full back. He's not even more 'attacking' than Ling. He's tenacious and gets stuck in, but he's not the sort of player who flies up and down the wing, getting crosses in.

There's no comparison between them offensively.

Judd will look to go forward as soon as we pick up the ball. He will provide another option. Even if doesn't get it, he occupies another defender. Ling will hold his position, some unkinder than me would say he hides. This is without doubt the biggest difference between the pair and the main reason I'd plump for Judd every single time.

I think you have described why some like Judd over Ling. Judd goes for it, Ling in my opinion avoids responsibility. Maybe he just lacks confidence but I would love to see a little more adventure from him when forward. Gets into good positions sometimes but is looking for the short, safe, 5 yard pass rather than taking responsibility for having a go. Frigging annoying.

Ling has improved over last season of that there is no doubt.

However, he can't defend, he can't cross, doesn't track back quickly enough, 90% of the time he passes backwards or at his most adventurous sideways.

Judd can't cross is too impetuous in the tackle at times.

I still believe that Judd is the better player however, others think differently.

RedO wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:25 pm

Red_Army wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:23 pm

dOh Nut wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:08 pm

I would be surprised if any real fan wants a player to do badly just to say “told you so”

Who edges it? Hard to say as we have yet to see Judd get a run of games. To me they are quite different types of player, Ling is less dynamic but some may say more reliable. Judd gets stuck in, rash at times, and likely to create more going forward but perhaps riskier at the back. I think perhaps that’s why JE went for Ling, the safer option, and it worked for us at that time.

Down to personal taste. I love aggressive attacking full backs, which is why I rated Caprice and Clohessy. Probably why I don’t rate Ling and prefer Judd. But Ling has the shirt and it’s his to lose, I doubt a new manager will play around too much early on.

I honestly can't believe people think that Judd is an 'attacking' full back. He's not even more 'attacking' than Ling. He's tenacious and gets stuck in, but he's not the sort of player who flies up and down the wing, getting crosses in.

There's no comparison between them offensively.

Judd will look to go forward as soon as we pick up the ball. He will provide another option. Even if doesn't get it, he occupies another defender. Ling will hold his position, some unkinder than me would say he hides. This is without doubt the biggest difference between the pair and the main reason I'd plump for Judd every single time.

I find it incredible that you watch games and come to that conclusion.

Thor wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:52 pm Ling has improved over last season of that there is no doubt.

However, he can't defend, he can't cross, doesn't track back quickly enough, 90% of the time he passes backwards or at his most adventurous sideways.

Judd can't cross is too impetuous in the tackle at times.

I still believe that Judd is the better player however, others think differently.

Agree with both those criticisms of Myles. But rather someone commits than let’s their opponent run unchallenged, as Ling is prone to do.

Judds crossing was also vastly improved last time he played, as I recall. Obviously something he’d been working on.