Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 5:07 pm

PoundhillO wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:37 pm We are now 5 points off the bottom spot, how much longer can disaster continue before Embleton is replaced, bearing in mind how long it will take to interview those interested and make a final decision.

We were 6 points off the bottom before today so it's strange that you're crying about a 5 point gap now.

Oh wait, it's PoundhillO...

We're now 21st after ten games played . Boarders were saying at the beginning of the season , give it ten to twelve games and we'll have a good idea on how we'll go this season . Yeah well , we obviously need to start making changes and sooner rather than later.

There are optimists out there? I’ll have some of what they’re drinking.

dOh Nut wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 5:21 pm There are optimists out there? I’ll have some of what they’re drinking.

Yup

Quite a few on FB really believed we'd get a result up there today.

Time's running out for sure.

Don't really want to hear weak-assed excuses like 'we almost scored in the last minute, fine margins'.....

If he can't sort out the defence, we have to get a man in who can. It's that simple. In training no doubt they will work on it again, but a few more games of conceding 2+ goals and I think the owners will be forced into action.

On the flip-side, two wins out of the next two and we go back into mid-table.

Personally I don't think this is all Embleton's fault, we had too much belief that there wouldn't be a big gap between the Leagues, and hence extended a load of contracts.

eagwgw wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 5:24 pm Personally I don't think this is all Embleton's fault, we had too much belief that there wouldn't be a big gap between the Leagues, and hence extended a load of contracts.

Need to define the "we" on that one. Based on interviews Ross said it, presumably Ling too given the (lack of) recruitment and has form for making that error plus some players too (Coulson on the same quote as Ross)

I would give him 4 more games. If we see no improvement, then it's time for a change.

eagwgw wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 5:24 pm Time's running out for sure.

Don't really want to hear weak-assed excuses like 'we almost scored in the last minute, fine margins'.....

If he can't sort out the defence, we have to get a man in who can. It's that simple. In training no doubt they will work on it again, but a few more games of conceding 2+ goals and I think the owners will be forced into action.

On the flip-side, two wins out of the next two and we go back into mid-table.

Personally I don't think this is all Embleton's fault, we had too much belief that there wouldn't be a big gap between the Leagues, and hence extended a load of contracts.

I remember Ling making the same mistake in 2006/07.

eagwgw wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 5:24 pm Time's running out for sure.

Don't really want to hear weak-assed excuses like 'we almost scored in the last minute, fine margins'.....

If he can't sort out the defence, we have to get a man in who can. It's that simple. In training no doubt they will work on it again, but a few more games of conceding 2+ goals and I think the owners will be forced into action.

On the flip-side, two wins out of the next two and we go back into mid-table.

Personally I don't think this is all Embleton's fault, we had too much belief that there wouldn't be a big gap between the Leagues, and hence extended a load of contracts.

Of course it’s not all Ross’s fault. Wrong to say it is. But what is very clear is that he is not getting the best out of the squad he has and he cannot set up in such a way that makes it hard for teams to score against us. Doubt many expected more than average. Don’t think many expected what we are seeing. A soft touch at the back.

Byways1 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 5:28 pm

eagwgw wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 5:24 pm Time's running out for sure.

Don't really want to hear weak-assed excuses like 'we almost scored in the last minute, fine margins'.....

If he can't sort out the defence, we have to get a man in who can. It's that simple. In training no doubt they will work on it again, but a few more games of conceding 2+ goals and I think the owners will be forced into action.

On the flip-side, two wins out of the next two and we go back into mid-table.

Personally I don't think this is all Embleton's fault, we had too much belief that there wouldn't be a big gap between the Leagues, and hence extended a load of contracts.

I remember Ling making the same mistake in 2006/07.

Exactly, it's like history repeating itself and these are the professionals

gshaw wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 5:27 pm Need to define the "we" on that one. Based on interviews Ross said it, presumably Ling too given the (lack of) recruitment and has form for making that error plus some players too (Coulson on the same quote as Ross)

Heard Travis say it in the lead up to the FA Trophy final, that those who got us up would be given a chance and there would be not many new arrivals (this was before Bonne/Koroma sold).

Possible that Justin may have also believed this, no real way of knowing. For sure in the promotion season I think his hands were tied to an extent, as we only got in Gorman/Alabi and had to wait to get more signings.

eagwgw wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 5:32 pm

gshaw wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 5:27 pm Need to define the "we" on that one. Based on interviews Ross said it, presumably Ling too given the (lack of) recruitment and has form for making that error plus some players too (Coulson on the same quote as Ross)

Heard Travis say it in the lead up to the FA Trophy final, that those who got us up would be given a chance and there would be not many new arrivals (this was before Bonne/Koroma sold).

Possible that Justin may have also believed this, no real way of knowing. For sure in the promotion season I think his hands were tied to an extent, as we only got in Gorman/Alabi and had to wait to get more signings.

We now know he wanted Wright in January but it didn't come off (reason unknown) but I think he'd already outlined his plans by releasing two CMs and transfer listing Alabi. After his passing only 1 player (his final signing) came in and that's where the problems start.

dOh Nut wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 5:21 pm There are optimists out there? I’ll have some of what they’re drinking.

@dOh Nut As I recall, you did have some of that ''Good'' stuff they were drinking a few weeks ago when we had that good away result against Mansfield and bless you, that inspired a thread of praise to RE in which you sent away doubters to the cause like me with a flee in the ear !!
The intoxication did not last that long, nice for you while it lasted though !!

I think someone at the club said that Wilkinson and Angol were players JE had been keeping tabs on with an eye to bringing them in for a good six months.

Eat The Rich wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 5:36 pm I think someone at the club said that Wilkinson and Angol were players JE had been keeping tabs on with an eye to bringing them in for a good six months.

Those two plus a replacement for Alabi would've been reasonable (Wilkinson a 3rd choice competition / cover)

The Alabi situation was the first indication Ross wasn't right for the role. Whether he or Ling made the call to bring back someone who wasn't deemed good enough at NL level it restricted the squad from the start.

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 5:35 pm

dOh Nut wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 5:21 pm There are optimists out there? I’ll have some of what they’re drinking.

@dOh Nut As I recall, you did have some of that ''Good'' stuff they were drinking a few weeks ago when we had that good away result against Mansfield and bless you, that inspired a thread of praise to RE in which you sent away doubters to the cause like me with a flee in the ear !!
The intoxication did not last that long, nice for you while it lasted though !!

Ain’t that the truth. My enthusiasm for Ross was clearly mistaken. But I have a habit for stupid support for club management in general. Players too. I’ll never learn Sid. But maybe I am now.

Eat The Rich wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 5:36 pm I think someone at the club said that Wilkinson and Angol were players JE had been keeping tabs on with an eye to bringing them in for a good six months.

Their good players and we all know JE would have gotten the most out of them.

gshaw wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 5:42 pmThe Alabi situation was the first indication Ross wasn't right for the role. Whether he or Ling made the call to bring back someone who wasn't deemed good enough at NL level it restricted the squad from the start.

I can understand people’s frustrations (to a degree) but I have to pull up nonsense like this. We had no choice to ‘bring Alabi back’ as no other club would offer him what he wanted. You can’t just force out a player who’s under contract. Not sure how that situation is Ross’ fault at all.

The biggest mistake IMO and what really restricted the squad was giving Harrold a new deal. We must have known there was a good chance of that happening with Alabi given his wages and the budgets of NL clubs, not to mention that Bonne and Koroma would move on. It meant we had to rely on two first-choice strikers being able to play every game and perform well, which obviously hasn’t happened.

gshaw wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 5:42 pm

Eat The Rich wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 5:36 pm I think someone at the club said that Wilkinson and Angol were players JE had been keeping tabs on with an eye to bringing them in for a good six months.

Those two plus a replacement for Alabi would've been reasonable (Wilkinson a 3rd choice competition / cover)

The Alabi situation was the first indication Ross wasn't right for the role. Whether he or Ling made the call to bring back someone who wasn't deemed good enough at NL level it restricted the squad from the start.

Remember, he wasn't deemed good enough by two experienced managers at that level.

Millennial Snowflake wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 6:09 pm

gshaw wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 5:42 pmThe Alabi situation was the first indication Ross wasn't right for the role. Whether he or Ling made the call to bring back someone who wasn't deemed good enough at NL level it restricted the squad from the start.

I can understand people’s frustrations (to a degree) but I have to pull up nonsense like this. We had no choice to ‘bring Alabi back’ as no other club would offer him what he wanted. You can’t just force out a player who’s under contract. Not sure how that situation is Ross’ fault at all.

The biggest mistake IMO and what really restricted the squad was giving Harrold a new deal. We must have known there was a good chance of that happening with Alabi given his wages and the budgets of NL clubs, not to mention that Bonne and Koroma would move on. It meant we had to rely on two first-choice strikers being able to play every game and perform well, which obviously hasn’t happened.

Wrong. I thought Torquay wanted Alabi but he didn't want to go.

Just back from the game.

Conceded two very poor goals again, last season our defenders were throwing themselves in front of shots in a determined effort not to concede, we would not have conceded the first goal last season but some of the defending today was less than committed. Second goal we just stood off no tackle forthcoming but it was a fantastic strike. We were a shambles at times in the first 45 and Colchester found space in midfield and down our left hand side. widdowson was very poor but got absolutely no help from Brophy who was shocking all game. Gifted a goal just before half time 2-1 really flattered us.

Second half we created some decent openings two vollied chances for Dennis who should have done better,one long throw that hit Coulson at the near post and grazed the post and a swipe from Alabi that went across goal hit a defender but Gerken in the ColU goal saved it on the line.

ColU have got some very good young players and a game plan to use the width of the pitch they could have had more goals after the break. But we have some decent players too but no obvious pattern of play other than get to Wilkindon hope it sticks, when we were desperately piling forward last 15 minutes we got Ling up the pitch and he started to cause a few problems on the right.

I'm now in favour of bringing in an experienced manager (Phil Parkinson will do) sooner rather than later, we have some decent players who at times today played at a snails pace went side to side with no real idea of what the plan was.

The poor results, & low table position, arent all Ross's fault, but having said that, he doesn't inspire confidence, he doesn't have the x factor

The squad is weaker than it was last season, even though we need a stronger squad than last season, for obvious reasons. This is down to DOF Ling.

In January, the owners have got to put their hands rather deeply in their pockets once again, because we just aint good enough...simple as that

If they dont, then the chances of us going back to the horrors of the league below will loom large

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 6:13 pm The poor results, & low table position, arent all Ross's fault, but having said that, he doesn't inspire confidence, he doesn't have the x factor

The squad is weaker than it was last season, even though we need a stronger squad than last season, for obvious reasons. This is down to DOF Ling.

In January, the owners have got to put their hands rather deeply in their pockets once again, because we just aint good enough...simple as that

If they dont, then the chances of us going back to the horrors of the league below will loom large

Some may call this exaggeration but if we go down the club is in serious trouble. Attendances will drop like a stone and we've already seen the club isn't financially viable at NL level with staffing levels as they are.

Simply have to get out of this situation. That will mean new manager and big spend in January. Something that could be been avoided by investing in the squad properly in summer.

Millennial Snowflake wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 6:09 pm

gshaw wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 5:42 pmThe Alabi situation was the first indication Ross wasn't right for the role. Whether he or Ling made the call to bring back someone who wasn't deemed good enough at NL level it restricted the squad from the start.

I can understand people’s frustrations (to a degree) but I have to pull up nonsense like this. We had no choice to ‘bring Alabi back’ as no other club would offer him what he wanted. You can’t just force out a player who’s under contract. Not sure how that situation is Ross’ fault at all.

The biggest mistake IMO and what really restricted the squad was giving Harrold a new deal. We must have known there was a good chance of that happening with Alabi given his wages and the budgets of NL clubs, not to mention that Bonne and Koroma would move on. It meant we had to rely on two first-choice strikers being able to play every game and perform well, which obviously hasn’t happened.

JE had basically bombed him out of the squad last season and seemed content to give him the message "you won't be playing". A strong manager pushes for another striker and leaves Alabi as 5th choice / EFL cup fodder.

Harrold contract was a bit of a strange one and a tad sentimental perhaps. That said JE used him effectively in a particular role seeing out games, again something Embleton has failed to do this season.

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 6:10 pm

Millennial Snowflake wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 6:09 pm

gshaw wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 5:42 pmThe Alabi situation was the first indication Ross wasn't right for the role. Whether he or Ling made the call to bring back someone who wasn't deemed good enough at NL level it restricted the squad from the start.

I can understand people’s frustrations (to a degree) but I have to pull up nonsense like this. We had no choice to ‘bring Alabi back’ as no other club would offer him what he wanted. You can’t just force out a player who’s under contract. Not sure how that situation is Ross’ fault at all.

The biggest mistake IMO and what really restricted the squad was giving Harrold a new deal. We must have known there was a good chance of that happening with Alabi given his wages and the budgets of NL clubs, not to mention that Bonne and Koroma would move on. It meant we had to rely on two first-choice strikers being able to play every game and perform well, which obviously hasn’t happened.

Wrong. I thought Torquay wanted Alabi but he didn't want to go.

Exactly, you can't force a player to join another club if he doesn't want to go. So not wrong.

gshaw wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 6:37 pmJE had basically bombed him out of the squad last season and seemed content to give him the message "you won't be playing". A strong manager pushes for another striker and leaves Alabi as 5th choice / EFL cup fodder.

Harrold contract was a bit of a strange one and a tad sentimental perhaps. That said JE used him effectively in a particular role seeing out games, again something Embleton has failed to do this season.

Even if he's been bombed out of the squad we still have to pay his wage. How do you know Ross didn't push for another striker?

Byways1 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 5:28 pm

eagwgw wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 5:24 pm Time's running out for sure.

Don't really want to hear weak-assed excuses like 'we almost scored in the last minute, fine margins'.....

If he can't sort out the defence, we have to get a man in who can. It's that simple. In training no doubt they will work on it again, but a few more games of conceding 2+ goals and I think the owners will be forced into action.

On the flip-side, two wins out of the next two and we go back into mid-table.

Personally I don't think this is all Embleton's fault, we had too much belief that there wouldn't be a big gap between the Leagues, and hence extended a load of contracts.

I remember Ling making the same mistake in 2006/07.

Ling is still the problem now. Time for him to consider his position.