Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Hoover Attack wrote: ↑Sat Aug 10, 2024 8:43 pm

PKM wrote: ↑Sat Aug 10, 2024 8:18 pm Aside from Kelman no one else stood out.

Brown was my MOTM.

Thought Oheiro and Galbraith were also good.

Got to agree with that

The big problem is the bench is exactly the same as what is on the pitch, there is no plan b or even hint of it, it's basically all like for like

That was the type of defeat I find hard to swallow . We matched them and were the better team for large parts of the game . However we literally gave them that game today on a plate . Two powder puff goals . A soft pea roller off a post and then a Hemming's clanger near the end . Apart from that Hemming's had virtually nothing to do all game . Bolton's keeper pulled off at least three great saves and Obeiro was unlucky with a shot that cannoned off the crossbar . Interesting from only wanting two more players last week Richie now say's he wants another two or three .

Thought we played well today and more
than matched Bolton for the whole game..
We’ve more than matched Bolton with
all there spending power for league one..
Obviously Kelman was the stand out player
but Galbraith, Oberio and Brown were
brilliant in the midfield..
Special mention for Dan Happe who got a
few blocks in and cleared everything that
went his way including having Dion Charles
throwing himself around like a 2 year old at
a toddlers party..
Anyone not at the game don’t bother listening
to the negative comments on Sweeneys performance apart from one mistake where
he was trying to see the ball out he was
rock solid and did more than ok ..
Onwards and upwards we’ll be fine under
Super Ritchie..

Brigs wrote: ↑Sat Aug 10, 2024 7:51 pm

The Reverend wrote: ↑Sat Aug 10, 2024 7:43 pm

Brigs wrote: ↑Sat Aug 10, 2024 7:36 pm

Bolton have sold 15,000 season tickets & have a capacity of over 28,000. We have a ground capacity 6,000 less than the season tickets they sold.

Compare us to the 2nd biggest club in he league why don't you.

What point are you trying to make? That we can’t ever beat clubs with bigger stadiums than ours?

No, I'm making the point that your points were a little silly

How so? My point was that our squad depth is very poor. I don’t really see how the number of season tickets Bolton have sold is relevant to this.

The club already knows we need a bigger stadium but that's for the future .

essexfootball wrote: ↑Sat Aug 10, 2024 9:23 pm The big problem is the bench is exactly the same as what is on the pitch, there is no plan b or even hint of it, it's basically all like for like

Disagree.

The big problem is the bench has no forward options to change a game.

The Reverend wrote: ↑Sat Aug 10, 2024 9:42 pm

Brigs wrote: ↑Sat Aug 10, 2024 7:51 pm

The Reverend wrote: ↑Sat Aug 10, 2024 7:43 pm

What point are you trying to make? That we can’t ever beat clubs with bigger stadiums than ours?

No, I'm making the point that your points were a little silly

How so? My point was that our squad depth is very poor. I don’t really see how the number of season tickets Bolton have sold is relevant to this.

Season ticket sales to budget
15,000 x £325 avg is £4.85million v
a Fully sold out Orient ground with same average price
£2.95 million .
Means a balance of £1,900,000 more not including on the day sales, they averaged 21,000 for home games last season at £25 average price over a season that's another £3,450,000. Bigger squad with better overall squad players, even if you add TV money then it's over £5.5 million player budget bigger than ours.
Do you still really not see what is relevant?

Brigs wrote: ↑Sat Aug 10, 2024 10:16 pm

The Reverend wrote: ↑Sat Aug 10, 2024 9:42 pm

Brigs wrote: ↑Sat Aug 10, 2024 7:51 pm

No, I'm making the point that your points were a little silly

How so? My point was that our squad depth is very poor. I don’t really see how the number of season tickets Bolton have sold is relevant to this.

Season ticket sales to budget
15,000 x £325 avg is £4.85million v
a Fully sold out Orient ground with same average price
£2.95 million .
Means a balance of £1,900,000 more not including on the day sales, they averaged 21,000 for home games last season at £25 average price over a season that's another £3,450,000. Bigger squad with better overall squad players, even if you add TV money then it's over £5.5 million player budget bigger than ours.
Do you still really not see what is relevant?

It would be relevant if I’d said “we should sign the same players as Bolton”. But I didn’t say that.

The Reverend wrote: ↑Sun Aug 11, 2024 7:19 am

Brigs wrote: ↑Sat Aug 10, 2024 10:16 pm

The Reverend wrote: ↑Sat Aug 10, 2024 9:42 pm

How so? My point was that our squad depth is very poor. I don’t really see how the number of season tickets Bolton have sold is relevant to this.

Season ticket sales to budget
15,000 x £325 avg is £4.85million v
a Fully sold out Orient ground with same average price
£2.95 million .
Means a balance of £1,900,000 more not including on the day sales, they averaged 21,000 for home games last season at £25 average price over a season that's another £3,450,000. Bigger squad with better overall squad players, even if you add TV money then it's over £5.5 million player budget bigger than ours.
Do you still really not see what is relevant?

It would be relevant if I’d said “we should sign the same players as Bolton”. But I didn’t say that.

"There subs make them stronger, Our subs make us weaker" .
My Idiots guide to financial budgets explains why.

Brigs wrote: ↑Sun Aug 11, 2024 2:18 pm

The Reverend wrote: ↑Sun Aug 11, 2024 7:19 am

Brigs wrote: ↑Sat Aug 10, 2024 10:16 pm

Season ticket sales to budget
15,000 x £325 avg is £4.85million v
a Fully sold out Orient ground with same average price
£2.95 million .
Means a balance of £1,900,000 more not including on the day sales, they averaged 21,000 for home games last season at £25 average price over a season that's another £3,450,000. Bigger squad with better overall squad players, even if you add TV money then it's over £5.5 million player budget bigger than ours.
Do you still really not see what is relevant?

It would be relevant if I’d said “we should sign the same players as Bolton”. But I didn’t say that.

"There subs make them stronger, Our subs make us weaker" .
My Idiots guide to financial budgets explains why.

As mentioned, if I’d said “we should sign the same players as Bolton” then you would have a point. But I didn’t say that. It’s possible to have adequate squad depth without spending the same amount as Bolton. Hope that helps.

The Reverend wrote: ↑Sun Aug 11, 2024 3:47 pm

Brigs wrote: ↑Sun Aug 11, 2024 2:18 pm

The Reverend wrote: ↑Sun Aug 11, 2024 7:19 am

It would be relevant if I’d said “we should sign the same players as Bolton”. But I didn’t say that.

"There subs make them stronger, Our subs make us weaker" .
My Idiots guide to financial budgets explains why.

As mentioned, if I’d said “we should sign the same players as Bolton” then you would have a point. But I didn’t say that. It’s possible to have adequate squad depth without spending the same amount as Bolton. Hope that helps.

Where have I stated in anything I wrote that says we should "sign the same players as Bolton"?
Squad number depth is not the same as
Subs make them stronger & us weaker.

Accept the fact that more financial muscle means better quality of players which is what you intimated with your stronger & weaker analysis.

Hopefully that helps you to fully understand, however I don't hold the confidence you will grasp it.

Brigs wrote: ↑Sun Aug 11, 2024 3:52 pm

The Reverend wrote: ↑Sun Aug 11, 2024 3:47 pm

Brigs wrote: ↑Sun Aug 11, 2024 2:18 pm

"There subs make them stronger, Our subs make us weaker" .
My Idiots guide to financial budgets explains why.

As mentioned, if I’d said “we should sign the same players as Bolton” then you would have a point. But I didn’t say that. It’s possible to have adequate squad depth without spending the same amount as Bolton. Hope that helps.

Where have I stated in anything I wrote that says we should "sign the same players as Bolton"?
Squad number depth is not the same as
Subs make them stronger & us weaker.

Accept the fact that more financial muscle means better quality of players which is what you intimated with your stronger & weaker analysis.

Hopefully that helps you to fully understand, however I don't hold the confidence you will grasp it.

You’re really struggling to grasp to quite simple point I was making. Oh well, let’s leave it there because this is going nowhere.

The Reverend wrote: ↑Sun Aug 11, 2024 3:53 pm

Brigs wrote: ↑Sun Aug 11, 2024 3:52 pm

The Reverend wrote: ↑Sun Aug 11, 2024 3:47 pm

As mentioned, if I’d said “we should sign the same players as Bolton” then you would have a point. But I didn’t say that. It’s possible to have adequate squad depth without spending the same amount as Bolton. Hope that helps.

Where have I stated in anything I wrote that says we should "sign the same players as Bolton"?
Squad number depth is not the same as
Subs make them stronger & us weaker.

Accept the fact that more financial muscle means better quality of players which is what you intimated with your stronger & weaker analysis.

Hopefully that helps you to fully understand, however I don't hold the confidence you will grasp it.

You’re really struggling to grasp to quite simple point I was making. Oh well, let’s leave it there because this is going nowhere.

So you can't bring a counter argument to prove your reasoning over mine. OK I agree lets leave it here with my workings being correct.

Brigs wrote: ↑Sun Aug 11, 2024 3:56 pm

The Reverend wrote: ↑Sun Aug 11, 2024 3:53 pm

Brigs wrote: ↑Sun Aug 11, 2024 3:52 pm
Where have I stated in anything I wrote that says we should "sign the same players as Bolton"?
Squad number depth is not the same as
Subs make them stronger & us weaker.

Accept the fact that more financial muscle means better quality of players which is what you intimated with your stronger & weaker analysis.

Hopefully that helps you to fully understand, however I don't hold the confidence you will grasp it.

You’re really struggling to grasp to quite simple point I was making. Oh well, let’s leave it there because this is going nowhere.

So you can't bring a counter argument to prove your reasoning over mine. OK I agree lets leave it here with my workings being correct.

Counter argument to what? I haven’t disputed that Bolton can afford to sign more expensive players than us, which seems to be the crux of your point. But that is irrelevant to what I was saying in the first place, which you seem to be struggling to understand.

The Reverend wrote: ↑Sun Aug 11, 2024 4:00 pm

Brigs wrote: ↑Sun Aug 11, 2024 3:56 pm

The Reverend wrote: ↑Sun Aug 11, 2024 3:53 pm

You’re really struggling to grasp to quite simple point I was making. Oh well, let’s leave it there because this is going nowhere.

So you can't bring a counter argument to prove your reasoning over mine. OK I agree lets leave it here with my workings being correct.

Counter argument to what? I haven’t disputed that Bolton can afford to sign more expensive players than us, which seems to be the crux of your point. But that is irrelevant to what I was saying in the first place, which you seem to be struggling to understand.

Stronger v Weaker is the point I raised as Silly in the context of budget & is indisputably Relevant.

If you really can not grasp that most basic idea, I don't see much hope for you.

Brigs wrote: ↑Sun Aug 11, 2024 4:09 pm

The Reverend wrote: ↑Sun Aug 11, 2024 4:00 pm

Brigs wrote: ↑Sun Aug 11, 2024 3:56 pm
So you can't bring a counter argument to prove your reasoning over mine. OK I agree lets leave it here with my workings being correct.

Counter argument to what? I haven’t disputed that Bolton can afford to sign more expensive players than us, which seems to be the crux of your point. But that is irrelevant to what I was saying in the first place, which you seem to be struggling to understand.

Stronger v Weaker is the point I raised as Silly in the context of budget & is indisputably Relevant.

If you really can not grasp that most basic idea, I don't see much hope for you.

It’s possible for us to have a squad depth which means that we bring players on who don’t weaken the side on the field. The budgets of other clubs are completely irrelevant to this point.

I did not say “why do Bolton have a stronger squad than us?” Which is how you have mistakenly interpreted what I was saying.

The Reverend wrote: ↑Sun Aug 11, 2024 4:33 pm

Brigs wrote: ↑Sun Aug 11, 2024 4:09 pm

The Reverend wrote: ↑Sun Aug 11, 2024 4:00 pm

Counter argument to what? I haven’t disputed that Bolton can afford to sign more expensive players than us, which seems to be the crux of your point. But that is irrelevant to what I was saying in the first place, which you seem to be struggling to understand.

Stronger v Weaker is the point I raised as Silly in the context of budget & is indisputably Relevant.

If you really can not grasp that most basic idea, I don't see much hope for you.

It’s possible for us to have a squad depth which means that we bring players on who don’t weaken the side on the field. The budgets of other clubs are completely irrelevant to this point.

I did not say “why do Bolton have a stronger squad than us?” Which is how you have mistakenly interpreted what I was saying.

How does depth override quality?

Brigs wrote: ↑Sun Aug 11, 2024 4:40 pm

The Reverend wrote: ↑Sun Aug 11, 2024 4:33 pm

Brigs wrote: ↑Sun Aug 11, 2024 4:09 pm

Stronger v Weaker is the point I raised as Silly in the context of budget & is indisputably Relevant.

If you really can not grasp that most basic idea, I don't see much hope for you.

It’s possible for us to have a squad depth which means that we bring players on who don’t weaken the side on the field. The budgets of other clubs are completely irrelevant to this point.

I did not say “why do Bolton have a stronger squad than us?” Which is how you have mistakenly interpreted what I was saying.

How does depth override quality?

You really are struggling with the basic point I was making and we are now derailing this thread. Going to leave it here for now.

The Reverend wrote: ↑Sun Aug 11, 2024 5:26 pm

Brigs wrote: ↑Sun Aug 11, 2024 4:40 pm

The Reverend wrote: ↑Sun Aug 11, 2024 4:33 pm

It’s possible for us to have a squad depth which means that we bring players on who don’t weaken the side on the field. The budgets of other clubs are completely irrelevant to this point.

I did not say “why do Bolton have a stronger squad than us?” Which is how you have mistakenly interpreted what I was saying.

How does depth override quality?

You really are struggling with the basic point I was making and we are now derailing this thread. Going to leave it here for now.

Quality always outweighs depth.
They had both & we didn't That was the only point you tried to make & you know it

Brigs wrote: ↑Sun Aug 11, 2024 5:35 pm

The Reverend wrote: ↑Sun Aug 11, 2024 5:26 pm

Brigs wrote: ↑Sun Aug 11, 2024 4:40 pm

How does depth override quality?

You really are struggling with the basic point I was making and we are now derailing this thread. Going to leave it here for now.

Quality always outweighs depth.
They had both & we didn't That was the only point you tried to make & you know it

Disagree tbh.

Rich Tea Wellin wrote: ↑Sun Aug 11, 2024 6:05 pm

Brigs wrote: ↑Sun Aug 11, 2024 5:35 pm

The Reverend wrote: ↑Sun Aug 11, 2024 5:26 pm

You really are struggling with the basic point I was making and we are now derailing this thread. Going to leave it here for now.

Quality always outweighs depth.
They had both & we didn't That was the only point you tried to make & you know it

Disagree tbh.

So you'd take Howes & Hemmings over Boltons Keeper.
Pratley at 39 over McAtee & Perkins over the ex O who scored the winner?

Brigs wrote: ↑Sun Aug 11, 2024 6:20 pm

Rich Tea Wellin wrote: ↑Sun Aug 11, 2024 6:05 pm

Brigs wrote: ↑Sun Aug 11, 2024 5:35 pm

Quality always outweighs depth.
They had both & we didn't That was the only point you tried to make & you know it

Disagree tbh.

So you'd take Howes & Hemmings over Boltons Keeper.
Pratley at 39 over McAtee & Perkins over the ex O who scored the winner?

Individually, obviously not but if macatee, their keeper and victor were 3 of 5 quality players and the rest of the squad were kids then obviously not

Rich Tea Wellin wrote: ↑Sun Aug 11, 2024 7:14 pm

Brigs wrote: ↑Sun Aug 11, 2024 6:20 pm

Rich Tea Wellin wrote: ↑Sun Aug 11, 2024 6:05 pm

Disagree tbh.

So you'd take Howes & Hemmings over Boltons Keeper.
Pratley at 39 over McAtee & Perkins over the ex O who scored the winner?

Individually, obviously not but if macatee, their keeper and victor were 3 of 5 quality players and the rest of the squad were kids then obviously not

So Boltons quality in depth is better all round than our few decent & kids?
Afield Charles Schon Cogley Santos etc then there bench.

We always need to be 100% strength & at it like we were at Pompey Oxford Stevenage Bolton (h) last season.
Yesterday we fell short because there best was better than ours & that is down to Money.

Brigs wrote: ↑Sun Aug 11, 2024 7:24 pm

Rich Tea Wellin wrote: ↑Sun Aug 11, 2024 7:14 pm

Brigs wrote: ↑Sun Aug 11, 2024 6:20 pm

So you'd take Howes & Hemmings over Boltons Keeper.
Pratley at 39 over McAtee & Perkins over the ex O who scored the winner?

Individually, obviously not but if macatee, their keeper and victor were 3 of 5 quality players and the rest of the squad were kids then obviously not

So Boltons quality in depth is better all round than our few decent & kids?
Afield Charles Schon Cogley Santos etc then there bench.

We always need to be 100% strength & at it like we were at Pompey Oxford Stevenage Bolton (h) last season.
Yesterday we fell short because there best was better than ours & that is down to Money.

Yea. And money allows you have better quality depth