Death Penalty

[Mistadobalina]

You can't introduce tiers of certainty into sentencing. It'd make an arse of the law because you'd basically be implying that some sentences are shakier than others.

Take Letby. The crimes she's been convicted of are comparable to Rudakubana's. The evidence she did it is nowhere near as overwhelming. But if we had the death penalty, both would be sentenced to death because of the severity of the crime, as a conviction has to be on the basis that a jury has decided someone is guilty of what they've been accused of. The sentencing corresponds to the severity of that crime.

And there is the issue with the death penalty. If it transpires she didn't do what she's been accused of (which I don't have a view on but plenty of experts do), we'd have killed an innocent person. miscarriages of justice happen all the time, you hear of innocent people being put to death in the states far too often, and that is the single most important reason why the death penalty is a stupid idea.

[Scuba Diver]

I doubt in this case even the bed wetters think there is any chance of rehabilitation.

Can you show your workings for the millions that could be put to better use. How many millions is it?

Estimated to cost 1,000 a week to keep someone in prison, (or more likely (and more expensive) the high-security mental institution the Judge will probably send him to.

1,000 a week x 52 years = £2,600,000. This is just one killer.

Did anyone ever sign up to say they wanted their taxes to go towards keeping psychotic killers and/or child rapists breathing at great expense...?

I certainly didn't myself.

[Currywurst and Chips]

But you did, or we as a country did more accurately

We don’t have direct democracy when it comes to how we allocate taxpayer’s money usually

We elect politicians who make decisions with funds and allocate them to things like imprisoning, feeding, protecting Radakubana for decades. Or spending billions on housing/healthcare/ education etc for the 150,000+ people who just turned up and claimed asylum. Or however much is spent on renovating nuclear submarines

Don’t like it? Write to your MP and vote every five years (hope you live in a swing seat).

[EastDerehamO]

I’ve always been of the opinion that by reintroducing the death penalty, we descend to the level of the terrorists and murderers, and it’s better to stay on the moral high ground. There’s the argument of making martyrs of some terrorists too.

As to Rudakubana, I’d have no issue with putting a noose (or equivalent) in his cell, his choice then, we should certainly never let him out.

[Mick McQuaid]

I doubt in this case even the bed wetters think there is any chance of rehabilitation.

Can you show your workings for the millions that could be put to better use. How many millions is it?

I'll stick my hand up as a bed wetter. If rehabilitation means taking responsibility and having genuine remorse for what he's done, then of course there's a chance of rehabilitation. Doesn't mean I think he should ever get out or there is any excuse for what he has done.

From a purely practical point of view a well behaved prisoner means less cost to the public purse, but I stand by the principle that we should be judged on how we treat our criminals. Once you accept that it's ok to dehumanise, mistreat or kill anyone as punishment it's just a matter of where you draw the line on how bad someone needs to be before their life is worthless.

The Reith lectures from December were from a forensic psychiatrist working with people who have committed the most terrible crimes, worth a listen if you actually want to think about justifying a sting 'em up stance.

[Dunners]

If you want him to suffer, then keeping him alive in solitary confinement for the rest of his days with nothing but the memories of his horrific crimes to keep him company is much more punishment than death.

The death penalty just give him a way out. Plus, administering a death sentence isn't the cheap option some people may think it is. There will still be custodial costs, medial facility costs, judicial costs etc.

Anyway, I think it's unlikely he'll get through the next 52 years without another inmate getting to him.

[Hoover Attack]

Anyway, I think it's unlikely he'll get through the next 52 years without another inmate getting to him.

There it is again.

[Dunners]

The game's the game, yo.

[Long slender neck]

If you want him to suffer, then keeping him alive in solitary confinement for the rest of his days with nothing but the memories of his horrific crimes to keep him company is much more punishment than death.

The death penalty just give him a way out. Plus, administering a death sentence isn't the cheap option some people may think it is. There will still be custodial costs, medial facility costs, judicial costs etc.

Anyway, I think it's unlikely he'll get through the next 52 years without another inmate getting to him.

Execution is only so costly because the bed wetters make it so.

[Hoover Attack]

If you want him to suffer, then keeping him alive in solitary confinement for the rest of his days with nothing but the memories of his horrific crimes to keep him company is much more punishment than death.

The death penalty just give him a way out. Plus, administering a death sentence isn't the cheap option some people may think it is. There will still be custodial costs, medial facility costs, judicial costs etc.

Anyway, I think it's unlikely he'll get through the next 52 years without another inmate getting to him.

Execution is only so costly because the bed wetters make it so.

Pretty sure you could even turn it into a money spinner.

[Admin]

If you want him to suffer, then keeping him alive in solitary confinement for the rest of his days with nothing but the memories of his horrific crimes to keep him company is much more punishment than death.

The death penalty just give him a way out. Plus, administering a death sentence isn't the cheap option some people may think it is. There will still be custodial costs, medial facility costs, judicial costs etc.

Anyway, I think it's unlikely he'll get through the next 52 years without another inmate getting to him.

Execution is only so costly because the bed wetters make it so.

Pretty sure you could even turn it into a money spinner.

Nailed on Pay-for-view winner.

[StillSpike]

Execution is only so costly because the bed wetters make it so.

Pretty sure you could even turn it into a money spinner.

Nailed on Pay-for-view winner.

Or auction the rights to press the button. There's enough people (some around here, it seems) fantasising about putting someone to death - it'd make a fortune.

[Admin]

Pretty sure you could even turn it into a money spinner.

Nailed on Pay-for-view winner.

Or auction the rights to press the button. There's enough people (some around here, it seems) fantasising about putting someone to death - it'd make a fortune.

I have a standing bet with a mate that before 2030, one of the political parties will have a serious stab at reintroducing capital punishment.

[Hoover Attack]

Text 0181 for lethal injection, 811 for gas chamber or 8181 for a baseball bat round the head until brains are visible.

Messages charged at £5 plus your standard text rate.

[Long slender neck]

£20 to chuck a stone at him, there'd be days long queues, like for the Queens coffin.

[DaggerHam]

"The mood and temper of the public in regard to the treatment of crime and criminals is one of the most unfailing tests of the civilisation of any country"
Sir Winston Churchill

[banqo]

£20 to chuck a stone at him, there'd be days long queues, like for the Queens coffin.

I'll have a grands worth please. b*stard.

[Max B Gold]

I doubt in this case even the bed wetters think there is any chance of rehabilitation.

Can you show your workings for the millions that could be put to better use. How many millions is it?

I'll stick my hand up as a bed wetter. If rehabilitation means taking responsibility and having genuine remorse for what he's done, then of course there's a chance of rehabilitation. Doesn't mean I think he should ever get out or there is any excuse for what he has done.

From a purely practical point of view a well behaved prisoner means less cost to the public purse, but I stand by the principle that we should be judged on how we treat our criminals. Once you accept that it's ok to dehumanise, mistreat or kill anyone as punishment it's just a matter of where you draw the line on how bad someone needs to be before their life is worthless.

The Reith lectures from December were from a forensic psychiatrist working with people who have committed the most terrible crimes, worth a listen if you actually want to think about justifying a sting 'em up stance.

We appear to have two different meanings of rehabilitation. Full rehabilitation includes the parts you have identified and getting the offender in a position to rejoin society.

But, like you, in this particular case I don't believe this offender should ever be released. I wonder if he was ever fit to stand trial but assume this was tested prior to trial and proven beyond doubt that he had full mental capacity.

Your other points are agreed.

[Dunners]

I wonder if he was ever fit to stand trial but assume this was tested prior to trial and proven beyond doubt that he had full mental capacity.

I'm no bedwetter and am not looking to excuse his actions at all, but you have to be beyond totally f*cking mental to do what he did.

[Max B Gold]

I wonder if he was ever fit to stand trial but assume this was tested prior to trial and proven beyond doubt that he had full mental capacity.

I'm no bedwetter and am not looking to excuse his actions at all, but you have to be beyond totally f*cking mental to do what he did.

So I will say it again. Was he fit to stand trial as was intended before he plead guilty. Is that guilty plea competent?

Did we have to have a public trial tor appearances sake after the organised unrest it sparked? Should he have been committed to a secure mental institution for life instead?

[Admin]

I wonder if he was ever fit to stand trial but assume this was tested prior to trial and proven beyond doubt that he had full mental capacity.

I'm no bedwetter and am not looking to excuse his actions at all, but you have to be beyond totally f*cking mental to do what he did.

Agreed. Wouldn't be surprised to find he's quickly moved into a secure mental unit.