Experience

[tuffers#1]

Really is very different to "reaoly"

Move along now tuff- think we now have concluded fletcher has a higher grade football career and cv than Ross "the boss" and if he had been given any encouragement from Ling that resembles what Ross got, fletcher would not know be back employed at a premier club but still with us in league two

I wondering tuff had you ever considered that fletcher technical ability as a coach contained methods of instructions and playing that Ling and Ross just could not grasp as Ross not being an ex player and Ling football career was really playing generally at a lower level and hence they took the easy way out and pulled the plug

Fletcher patently had playing ability to a very high level but to come in and within his first 29 days, produce a list of 10 people (players + coaches?) that he wanted to get rid off showed that he really had no idea of the realities and practicalities of running a professional football club. The man was stupid but so were the club in appointing him in the first place.

Yes I agree partially to a point It Is futile me or tuff continuing this theme
I believe the club have a systematic way of replacing players based on their contracts in place. Yes I agree if fletcher produced a list and recommended or desired the people on it were replaced without understanding how Lofc do tend to honour contracts then that was not good.

My final comment on this subject and my hypothesis is that he obviously produced a list of names as travis stated and the club were suprised of some if the names on the list however the evidence since then on interviews is Lofc have as an management entity a process that names players that are capable of playing in league one / two / and those not capable in the future - PI confirmed this which included in the matrix the phrase "probable and possible"

They do nothing different to what fletcher alleged and did produce a list the only difference is fletcher must of been most determined to improve the team quicker than the contracts in place would allow - thus a load of money being wasted in non productive costs transfering /loans out/ or termination - by buying up contract value.

Further a person like fletcher must be very determined character to achieve his playing career and he in his recent Bournmouth newspaper did reveal he was suprised that he was fired after such a short time and further people he relied on to assist him just did not act in a faithful manner.

It is a real travesty for everyone what happened my main beef was not Ross being promoted in the end but the lack of assistance fletcher appears to of received whilst here particularly with Ling doing a latent investigation after ten days instead of having the balls or bottle to be straight up with fletcher and assist him in his new job and the way he laughed and swore in the QA demeaning fletcher like trash

Ling may be a great chum and a great father and husband but on this particular matter he failed and compounded his own failure with no empathy to fletcher

But Ling bends over backwards to support Ross to the point that it's rather obscene as a impartial third party watching from the fan point of view the difference and the way Ling has over emphasised Ross coaching expierence since the age of 16 saying Ross has been a coach for 22 years (most of that not being a pro first team but kids at different ages )and then enhancing it further using the words brilliant if some one is brilliant in any field their cv and production of results indicate that.

End of.

You seem to have forgot he said he wouldnt rock the boat & then did exactly that.
Still its History now.

Time to look forwards & not back .

[Ronnie Hotdogs]

Only problem is we’re not looking forward, we’re stuck in limbo, treading water, not getting anywhere.

[tuffers#1]

Only problem is we’re not looking forward, we’re stuck in limbo, treading water, not getting anywhere.

Really ?
1st season back in the EFL,
Survival guarenteed, new players being sourced
others being eased out with thanks for there efforts
All after the late great!

[Dohnut]

1st point
Blathering is very different to babbling .

2nd point
The P.I has stated categorically that this season reaoly has become a free hit becuase of the
early summer tragedy to befall the Great Man.

Move along now .

Really is very different to "reaoly"

Move along now tuff- think we now have concluded fletcher has a higher grade football career and cv than Ross "the boss" and if he had been given any encouragement from Ling that resembles what Ross got, fletcher would not know be back employed at a premier club but still with us in league two

I wondering tuff had you ever considered that fletcher technical ability as a coach contained methods of instructions and playing that Ling and Ross just could not grasp as Ross not being an ex player and Ling football career was really playing generally at a lower level and hence they took the easy way out and pulled the plug

Fletcher patently had playing ability to a very high level but to come in and within his first 29 days, produce a list of 10 people (players + coaches?) that he wanted to get rid off showed that he really had no idea of the realities and practicalities of running a professional football club. The man was stupid but so were the club in appointing him in the first place.

His playing abilities may well have played a part in deciding very quickly the people he considered not good enough. Aswill other aspects of his experience. Don’t know where the 10 comes from but I’m sure we could all draw up a list ourselves.

But for me that’s not the issue. The parameters of his job, including scope/limitations for making changes should have been ironed out and agreed before he got the job. And of course we don’t know the timescale. Some sooner, like Gorman and Alabi, some in June like Harold and some at their end of contract. 10 is not unreasonable. The continual improvement Ling himself talks about. After all he was sold as a long term solution to our Head Coach requirements, not a hatchet man. Perhaps that was exactly what he was doing.

If he put forward proposals that were not aligned to club expectations, look at the interview process, not Fletcher.

[Rich Tea Wellin]

Really is very different to "reaoly"

Move along now tuff- think we now have concluded fletcher has a higher grade football career and cv than Ross "the boss" and if he had been given any encouragement from Ling that resembles what Ross got, fletcher would not know be back employed at a premier club but still with us in league two

I wondering tuff had you ever considered that fletcher technical ability as a coach contained methods of instructions and playing that Ling and Ross just could not grasp as Ross not being an ex player and Ling football career was really playing generally at a lower level and hence they took the easy way out and pulled the plug

Fletcher patently had playing ability to a very high level but to come in and within his first 29 days, produce a list of 10 people (players + coaches?) that he wanted to get rid off showed that he really had no idea of the realities and practicalities of running a professional football club. The man was stupid but so were the club in appointing him in the first place.

His playing abilities may well have played a part in deciding very quickly the people he considered not good enough. Aswill other aspects of his experience. Don’t know where the 10 comes from but I’m sure we could all draw up a list ourselves.

But for me that’s not the issue. The parameters of his job, including scope/limitations for making changes should have been ironed out and agreed before he got the job. And of course we don’t know the timescale. Some sooner, like Gorman and Alabi, some in June like Harold and some at their end of contract. 10 is not unreasonable. The continual improvement Ling himself talks about. After all he was sold as a long term solution to our Head Coach requirements, not a hatchet man. Perhaps that was exactly what he was doing.

If he put forward proposals that were not aligned to club expectations, look at the interview process, not Fletcher.

Spot on.

We don't know what he was told, but in any manager job, no matter what industry, you'd go in expecting that you have scope to make changes required to improved things. Unless it was stated before taking the job, it's out of order to then blame Fletcher.

[Long slender neck]

Scope to make changes yes, but if you go into a job and piss people off then you'll be out the door.

[Stowaway]

I read the other day that Fletcher has got his old job back at Bournemouth, I’m pleased for him.

[Long slender neck]

Ling surrounding himself with people who lack experience to please his ego and to calm his insecurities i suspect.

Cant have anyone challenging what you say, or having the experience/knowledge to challenge. See Danny Webb.

That famously experienced manager, Danny Webb.

[Millennial Snowflake]

Scope to make changes yes, but if you go into a job and p*ss people off then you'll be out the door.

Took long enough, but glad someone finally got it

[Rich Tea Wellin]

Scope to make changes yes, but if you go into a job and p*ss people off then you'll be out the door.

Agree. And maybe he did go in for the kill too early before getting the respect of everyone.

But it points to a cliche of untouchable people who will not accept outsiders views, which isn't sustainable if you want success. And I highly doubt Fletcher was far off. We have at least 5-6 players who aren't this level and his rumoured point about our fitness levels were also spot on.

[Long slender neck]

Agree that there are players who are not up to it. But maybe this list is not the only thing that put noses out of joint. There were rumours of a training ground bust up too.

[Dohnut]

Scope to make changes yes, but if you go into a job and p*ss people off then you'll be out the door.

Took long enough, but glad someone finally got it

If you start a new job by pissing people off, which happens, then the right approach is for his boss, Ling in this case, to take him to one side and have a private chat explaining that perhaps the direction he is taking is wrong. Talk like grown-ups in a tough industry. Then if it continues, out the door is perfectly correct and no surprise. A warning having been given.

As his sacking came as a complete surprise after just 29 days it suggests due process was not followed and he wasn't really given a chance to modify his approach.

However you view it, the club and its processes and supposedly great culture, acted no better than our previous owner. The fault lay totally with Ling and the club and Travis has said as much. The club screwed up. Get over it.

[Long slender neck]

I thought you Ling haters didnt want him interfering? Now you think he should be having a word?

[Dohnut]

I thought you Ling haters didnt want him interfering? Now you think he should be having a word?

Nought to do with Ling, just good management practice. Not to mention good manners.

And I don’t hate Ling. What have I posted to suggest that?

[Reflecto]

It's completely obvious that there is a lack of experience - the question is why? Probable answers:-

ML likes it that way - it keeps him in front
ML doesn't like confrontation
ML actually believes that RE, DB and Jobi etc are brilliant (no evidence yet, and a lot to the contrary)
It's cheaper for the club
The board including ML and still mourning JE and keeping it in-house kinda perpetuates the old set-up (my guess)

My view - the club needs to judge every coaching position on results - ML / RE / SF / JMcA / DB - the next 11 games should be used to make a longer term decision about the set-up. This season was a free-pass, next cannot be...(assuming there is a next season - C.virus)

Up the O's

[KC & sunshine band]

Tuff

I don't know your intellect or career job to indicate your basic intelligence so please don't reply any more until you think the issue out correctly

Think - a loan manager actually is a very important role at a premier club

Think of the players at the start of the careers as a financial asset

They given their care and development to a person of ability to try and save the club a lot of money and it's far more economic than to try end buy a decent premier player at today's prices

Second point - with respect to you and your father you quote - you are wrong as fletcher has a far higher grade cv than both Ross (which is not hard) and Ling as players

I just looked on the net on Ling I suggest you read his football cv - it actually is ok I guess but not outstanding

Ross - well he did coach kids of eight onwards and I assume he passed a few badges but again tell me what is so standout in his career to date that indicates that Ling reference to " brilliant" has a sound basis and warrant the extreme bias of Ling

I don't see any other people in the footy world demanding his services

OMG

don't know your intellect or career job to indicate your basic intelligence so please don't reply any more until you think the issue out correctly

WTF

This is a free forum of opinions of all abilities and education, and backgrounds

How condescending are you

Pull your head out your arse and then screw it back in again

[Disoriented]

Scope to make changes yes, but if you go into a job and p*ss people off then you'll be out the door.

If that was truly the case, then you would never be employed.

[EliotNes]

Ok it’s years ago and times change but their appointments as manager of the O’s were the first for each of Jimmy Bloomfield, George Petchey and Frank Clark.

[Ronnie Hotdogs]

Ok it’s years ago and times change but their appointments as manager of the O’s were the first for each of Jimmy Bloomfield, George Petchey and Frank Clark.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Clark_(footballer)

Frank Clark spent 5 years playing at the highest club level under one of the managerial greats of the time at Forest. He then spent 3 years as assistant manager at the top level with Sunderland.

Hardly compares with 5 years managing under 15 year old boys, does it.

[Thor]

Ok it’s years ago and times change but their appointments as manager of the O’s were the first for each of Jimmy Bloomfield, George Petchey and Frank Clark.

Jimmy played over three hundred games in the 1st division
George played over 400 games for qpr and palace
Frank won the European cup and league championship

All were seasoned pros who played the game at the highest level and understood it.

Ross played kids football only.

I rest my case.

[tuffers#1]

Ok it’s years ago and times change but their appointments as manager of the O’s were the first for each of Jimmy Bloomfield, George Petchey and Frank Clark.

Jimmy played over three hundred games in the 1st division
George played over 400 games for qpr and palace
Frank won the European cup and league championship

All were seasoned pros who played the game at the highest level and understood it.

Ross played kids football only.

I rest my case.

Managers who never played professional football & there Honurs ( trophies won & finals lost)

Roy Hodgson
Halmstads BK
Allsvenskan: 1976, 1979
Örebro SK
Division 2 Norra: 1984
Malmö FF
Allsvenskan: 1985, 1986, 1987, 1988, 1989
Svenska Cupen: 1985–86, 1988–89
Neuchâtel Xamax
Swiss Super Cup: 1990

Inter Milan
UEFA Cup runner-up: 1996–97
Copenhagen
Danish Superliga: 2000–01
Danish Super Cup: 2001[
Fulham
UEFA Europa League runner-up: 2009–2010

Gerrard Houllier
Paris Saint-Germain
Division 1: 1985–86
Liverpool
FA Cup: 2000–01
Football League Cup: 2000–01, 
2002–03FA Charity Shield: 
2001UEFA Cup: 2000–01
UEFA Super Cup: 2001
Lyon
Ligue 1: 2005–06, 2006–07 Trophée des Champions: 2005, 2006
France U18
UEFA European Under-18 Championship: 1996

Carlos Alberto Parreira

ClubFluminense
Série A: 1984
Série C: 1999
Fenerbahçe
Süper Lig: 1995–96
CorinthiansTorneio Rio – São Paulo:
2002
Copa do Brasil:
 2002 International
KuwaitGulf Cup of Nations: 
1982
AFC Asian Cup: 
1980
Brazil Amistad Cup: 1992
FIFA World Cup: 1994
Copa América: 2004
FIFA Confederations Cup: 2005
Saudi Arabia AFC Asian Cup: 1988
South Africa COSA FA Cup: 2007

Arrigo Sacchi.
Milan

Serie A (1): 1987–88 Super coppa Italiana (1): 
1988
European Cup (2): 
1988–89, 1989–90
European Supercup (2): 1989, 
1990 Intercontinental Cup (2): 1989, 1990Coppa Italia Runners-up (1): 1989–90


FIFA World Cup Runners-Up (1): 1994



I take your Jimmy George & Frank &
raise them with non playing managers who have won & lost world cup finals
European cups super cups & uefa cups
Multiple leagues & national cups etc.

I REST MY CASE .

[Thor]

Very good tuffers.

I'll be proved right in the end, mark my words.

[tuffers#1]

Very good tuffers.

I'll be proved right in the end, mark my words.

1 out of 10 for being able to write.

Hope those marked words are ok by you

[KC & sunshine band]

Tuff

I don't know your intellect or career job to indicate your basic intelligence so please don't reply any more until you think the issue out correctly

Think - a loan manager actually is a very important role at a premier club

Think of the players at the start of the careers as a financial asset

They given their care and development to a person of ability to try and save the club a lot of money and it's far more economic than to try end buy a decent premier player at today's prices

Second point - with respect to you and your father you quote - you are wrong as fletcher has a far higher grade cv than both Ross (which is not hard) and Ling as players

I just looked on the net on Ling I suggest you read his football cv - it actually is ok I guess but not outstanding

Ross - well he did coach kids of eight onwards and I assume he passed a few badges but again tell me what is so standout in his career to date that indicates that Ling reference to " brilliant" has a sound basis and warrant the extreme bias of Ling

I don't see any other people in the footy world demanding his services

OMG

don't know your intellect or career job to indicate your basic intelligence so please don't reply any more until you think the issue out correctly

WTF

This is a free forum of opinions of all abilities and education, and backgrounds

How condescending are you

Pull your head out your arse and then screw it back in again

Yeah agreed I am very condescending - remarkable how different people read some of the posts on here wrongly

Ooh well must try and remember there are many thick people in this world or what a shame for mankind

Now dont be such a sulky sue
you prove my point with your answer
Is it that some people read the posts wrongly, or you read the posts wrongly, or you cannot understand that it is okay for people to have a different opinion than you,
I am treading carefully because I dont know your intellect, career job, and basic intelligence - although I can have a good guess, so would not want to upset you - that would be futile
Saying people are thick is a bit rude and patronising and not really correct - or is it because in your judgement they are not up to your superior standards
Once again I have to explain that this is a free forum of opinions, of all abilities, education and backgrounds - what dont you understand
Its a shame for mankind that you pulled your head out of your arse

[Mikero]

I would have thought that experience of being managed would have to come into this somewhere. The people concerned would have worked for a range of managers and formed an opinion of what worked and what didn't. A managment style can be developed from this base experience that uses the good and avoids the bad.

Mikero