Brexit

[EH16]

Soon as Farage denied live on TV that the NHS would save £352 million (which we all know played a huge part in the Brexit campaign), I for one knew people had been had and that Farage was a wrong un.

Wow! It took you that long?

[EH16]

I feel none of the three main parties represent me anymore so I'll be voting for the Brexit party in the Euro elections . I concede we're not leaving now so maybe we can bring them down from the inside.

Protest votes are intrinsically stupid. People end up giving support to parties who even less represent them. Go vote and spoil your ballot paper if you must protest.

A protest vote with a projected 28% vote share. I don’t think so. They will be like trump in the U.S and we are about to drain the swamp.

People end up giving support to parties who even less represent them.

[EH16]

I 1000% think Brexit is going to happen
It’s what the majority voted for & if it’s not carried out its the biggest crime against democracy ever,
So it won’t be allowed to happen,
Furthermore protesting against what the majority voted against is to my mind the most disgraceful act anyone can do,
There are hundreds of ways Brexit can rejuvenate this country,
But it would take someone to implement it who has a spine not seen in parliament for a good many years.

Hundreds? Name ONE way Brexit will guarantee ‘rejuvenating’ the country.

I'm also keen to see a response to this.

[Sid Bishop]

I voted for joining the common market in the original referendum. Nobody asked my permission to enrol me in a federal Europe.

Strange how people who were not around at the time do not realise that.
When that same question was raised in the referendum in 1975 by people like patriotic left wing Labour party people like Shore, Benn, Foot plus Enoch Powell, well Heath and Jenkins etc who were on the other side of the debate ( pro remain in the Common Market ) said it was all scare mongering and would NOT happen !! Well we know know that they lied through their teeth !!
Also ironic that for years Labours Kinnock and Corbyn were very Anti EU, but became fans of the EU......when it suited them !

Lastly, all this business of Scotland voting to become an Independent Country in its own right. Ok so if that happened, what next ? A rush to join the EU then after a long waiting period, join the EU, to then lose the freedom of being an Independence Country that it had fought to gain and then be absorbed into the EU block and be forced to put up a hard border between its biggest trading partner, the Uk !!
Strange thinking that one ?

[greyhound]

I voted for joining the common market in the original referendum. Nobody asked my permission to enrol me in a federal Europe.

Strange how people who were not around at the time do not realise that.
When that same question was raised in the referendum in 1975 by people like patriotic left wing Labour party people like Shore, Benn, Foot plus Enoch Powell, well Heath and Jenkins etc who were on the other side of the debate ( pro remain in the Common Market ) said it was all scare mongering and would NOT happen !! Well we know know that they lied through their teeth !!
Also ironic that for years Labours Kinnock and Corbyn were very Anti EU, but became fans of the EU......when it suited them !

Lastly, all this business of Scotland voting to become an Independent Country in its own right. Ok so if that happened, what next ? A rush to join the EU then after a long waiting period, join the EU, to then lose the freedom of being an Independence Country that it had fought to gain and then be absorbed into the EU block and be forced to put up a hard border between its biggest trading partner, the Uk !!
Strange thinking that one ?

could not put it better myself.

[EH16]

I voted for joining the common market in the original referendum. Nobody asked my permission to enrol me in a federal Europe.

Strange how people who were not around at the time do not realise that.
When that same question was raised in the referendum in 1975 by people like patriotic left wing Labour party people like Shore, Benn, Foot plus Enoch Powell, well Heath and Jenkins etc who were on the other side of the debate ( pro remain in the Common Market ) said it was all scare mongering and would NOT happen !! Well we know know that they lied through their teeth !!
Also ironic that for years Labours Kinnock and Corbyn were very Anti EU, but became fans of the EU......when it suited them !

Lastly, all this business of Scotland voting to become an Independent Country in its own right. Ok so if that happened, what next ? A rush to join the EU then after a long waiting period, join the EU, to then lose the freedom of being an Independence Country that it had fought to gain and then be absorbed into the EU block and be forced to put up a hard border between its biggest trading partner, the Uk !!
Strange thinking that one ?

Not strange at all. During the independence referendum we were bombarded with the scare story that independence would mean losing our EU membership.

Now here we are, despite Scotland voting overwhelmingly to stay in the EU, about to be dragged out against the will of the people (that we hear so much about)

As the rabid brexiteers will soon find out, global economics mean that there's no such thing as a truly independent country so the choice is what do you want to be part of. Scotland is a very different place to England and it seems to me that we've been on divergent paths for some time now so I don't see being part of the EU as a problem (nor, it seems, do the majority of Scottish voters). It (the EU) feels like a place we (Scotland) have more in common with than an increasingly right wing England.

As to a hard border, we've been repeatedly told there won't be a hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic so I can't see why there would need to be one between Scotland and residual UK.

[ComeOnYouOs]

Although it was only three years ago, I cannot remember a single thing, a single mention, a single debate about the effects of Brexit on the border in the island of Ireland.
A hard brexit will destroy the good Friday agreement, and a return to the killing and bombing will be imminent.
I despair at the moment....both camps are digging in their heels, and getting more and more militant, and no one is going to be happy at the end of this process
David Cameron, you have a lot to answer for

[EH16]

Although it was only three years ago, I cannot remember a single thing, a single mention, a single debate about the effects of Brexit on the border in the island of Ireland.
A hard brexit will destroy the good Friday agreement, and a return to the killing and bombing will be imminent.
I despair at the moment....both camps are digging in their heels, and getting more and more militant, and no one is going to be happy at the end of this process
David Cameron, you have a lot to answer for

David Cameron, you have a lot to answer for The rabid right wing of his party who're still trying to fight the 2nd World War have a lot more to answer for.

[Max B Gold]

I voted for joining the common market in the original referendum. Nobody asked my permission to enrol me in a federal Europe.

Strange how people who were not around at the time do not realise that.
When that same question was raised in the referendum in 1975 by people like patriotic left wing Labour party people like Shore, Benn, Foot plus Enoch Powell, well Heath and Jenkins etc who were on the other side of the debate ( pro remain in the Common Market ) said it was all scare mongering and would NOT happen !! Well we know know that they lied through their teeth !!
Also ironic that for years Labours Kinnock and Corbyn were very Anti EU, but became fans of the EU......when it suited them !

Lastly, all this business of Scotland voting to become an Independent Country in its own right. Ok so if that happened, what next ? A rush to join the EU then after a long waiting period, join the EU, to then lose the freedom of being an Independence Country that it had fought to gain and then be absorbed into the EU block and be forced to put up a hard border between its biggest trading partner, the Uk !!
Strange thinking that one ?

You misunderstand it's England we want rid of. Who cares if we get absorbed into the EU Block so long as we can be independent from our colonial masters.

Besides isn't there the power of veto in the EU for its members?

[Disoriented]

Colonial masters?

The Proclaimers are turning in their grave at such a comment.

[Sid Bishop]

I voted for joining the common market in the original referendum. Nobody asked my permission to enrol me in a federal Europe.

Strange how people who were not around at the time do not realise that.
When that same question was raised in the referendum in 1975 by people like patriotic left wing Labour party people like Shore, Benn, Foot plus Enoch Powell, well Heath and Jenkins etc who were on the other side of the debate ( pro remain in the Common Market ) said it was all scare mongering and would NOT happen !! Well we know know that they lied through their teeth !!
Also ironic that for years Labours Kinnock and Corbyn were very Anti EU, but became fans of the EU......when it suited them !

Lastly, all this business of Scotland voting to become an Independent Country in its own right. Ok so if that happened, what next ? A rush to join the EU then after a long waiting period, join the EU, to then lose the freedom of being an Independence Country that it had fought to gain and then be absorbed into the EU block and be forced to put up a hard border between its biggest trading partner, the Uk !!
Strange thinking that one ?

You misunderstand it's England we want rid of. Who cares if we get absorbed into the EU Block so long as we can be independent from our colonial masters.

Besides isn't there the power of veto in the EU for its members?

So if the majority in Scotland wish to be free of its biggest trading partner and yearns for its freedom to express itself by becoming a small and independent country, then if so, once its gains its independence from the UK, Scotland will then offer itself up to be swallowed up whole as a small country to become little more than a province of the undemocratic EU Superstate !! To be swallowed up whole by the EU !! All this could take many years to achieve and that's IF it all goes smoothly and Spain or any other Countries do NOT change their minds and veto such a thing happening. So we now imagine that after gaining its independence from the UK, this proud and newly Independent Scotland would then now CHOOSE to give up its new Independence, freedom to trade under its own terms and conditions to any Country in the world, plus control over its newly claimed back fishing grounds, to give this all up to its new master, the EU. Also be forced to accept the Euro as its currency and also to have NO control over its borders at all as to who comes into this fiercely proud and historic Country from the EU Countries ? Ok if that is what you and the majority of the Scottish people yearn for, then so be it !!

[Max B Gold]

Strange how people who were not around at the time do not realise that.
When that same question was raised in the referendum in 1975 by people like patriotic left wing Labour party people like Shore, Benn, Foot plus Enoch Powell, well Heath and Jenkins etc who were on the other side of the debate ( pro remain in the Common Market ) said it was all scare mongering and would NOT happen !! Well we know know that they lied through their teeth !!
Also ironic that for years Labours Kinnock and Corbyn were very Anti EU, but became fans of the EU......when it suited them !

Lastly, all this business of Scotland voting to become an Independent Country in its own right. Ok so if that happened, what next ? A rush to join the EU then after a long waiting period, join the EU, to then lose the freedom of being an Independence Country that it had fought to gain and then be absorbed into the EU block and be forced to put up a hard border between its biggest trading partner, the Uk !!
Strange thinking that one ?

You misunderstand it's England we want rid of. Who cares if we get absorbed into the EU Block so long as we can be independent from our colonial masters.

Besides isn't there the power of veto in the EU for its members?

So if the majority in Scotland wish to be free of its biggest trading partner and yearns for its freedom to express itself by becoming a small and independent country, then if so, once its gains its independence from the UK, Scotland will then offer itself up to be swallowed up whole as a small country to become little more than a province of the undemocratic EU Superstate !! To be swallowed up whole by the EU !! All this could take many years to achieve and that's IF it all goes smoothly and Spain or any other Countries do NOT change their minds and veto such a thing happening. So we now imagine that after gaining its independence from the UK, this proud and newly Independent Scotland would then now CHOOSE to give up its new Independence, freedom to trade under its own terms and conditions to any Country in the world, plus control over its newly claimed back fishing grounds, to give this all up to its new master, the EU. Also be forced to accept the Euro as its currency and also to have NO control over its borders at all as to who comes into this fiercely proud and historic Country from the EU Countries ? Ok if that is what you and the majority of the Scottish people yearn for, then so be it !!

Yes please. We need to be free of your bullying and threats.

We are happier in the EU. Election proves it. Scotland voted 62% to stay in the EU.

Forget the greedy fishermen(Scottish and others). They are the ones who are trying to ruin our planet in pursuit of money. They already cheated the attempts to preserve fish stocks. Check the internet.

[Mikero]

I must say it is disturbing to read a whole load of lengthy and well reasoned arguments without any personal abuse breaking out, what is this board coming to?

Mikero

[Sid Bishop]

You misunderstand it's England we want rid of. Who cares if we get absorbed into the EU Block so long as we can be independent from our colonial masters.

Besides isn't there the power of veto in the EU for its members?

So if the majority in Scotland wish to be free of its biggest trading partner and yearns for its freedom to express itself by becoming a small and independent country, then if so, once its gains its independence from the UK, Scotland will then offer itself up to be swallowed up whole as a small country to become little more than a province of the undemocratic EU Superstate !! To be swallowed up whole by the EU !! All this could take many years to achieve and that's IF it all goes smoothly and Spain or any other Countries do NOT change their minds and veto such a thing happening. So we now imagine that after gaining its independence from the UK, this proud and newly Independent Scotland would then now CHOOSE to give up its new Independence, freedom to trade under its own terms and conditions to any Country in the world, plus control over its newly claimed back fishing grounds, to give this all up to its new master, the EU. Also be forced to accept the Euro as its currency and also to have NO control over its borders at all as to who comes into this fiercely proud and historic Country from the EU Countries ? Ok if that is what you and the majority of the Scottish people yearn for, then so be it !!

Yes please. We need to be free of your bullying and threats.

We are happier in the EU. Election proves it. Scotland voted 62% to stay in the EU.

Forget the greedy fishermen(Scottish and others). They are the ones who are trying to ruin our planet in pursuit of money. They already cheated the attempts to preserve fish stocks. Check the internet.

Well that is your opinion and you are fully entitled to give it, that is your right, but to as to if and when it comes to it, see the results of any new referendum before it actually happens for real. As to ''greedy fishermen'' well, since the earliest recorded history of mankind, fishermen have fished the seas in order to supply a human desire and need to eat fish as part of a good and sustainable diet. Also most fish tastes very nice, so you or anyone else is not going to change that eating habit. As to who can be trusted to not overfish scottish waters in order to keep the fish stock at a healthy and sustainable level, well I think Brith fishermen have a better record of doing so than trusting the EU fishermen to do it for you. Also strange that you would prefer to trust the EU and their fishermen to regulate and maintain the future Scottish fishing stocks, rather than your own scottish fishermen and government, be it in a situation where Scotland stays in a UK that has left the EU, or in the case of your future wish, an Independent Scotland out of the EU for a number of years both before and after any future possible EU membership.
Of course another scenario could happen, Scotland could vote to LEAVE the UK, then be OUT of the EU, then flourish as an Independent Sovereign Nation !! IMO Scotland is a much loved Country all over the world, people from many parts of the world love its people, history, Countryside, Towns and Cities, heritage etc and also the products it produces, Scottish Whisky to name just one !! So let us picture this new Independent Scotland and I could well imagine money coming in from all over the world to create jobs and industry. The ''Made in Scotland'' brand is something really special to cherish. I know many Americans love Scotland as do many Asian Countries ( especially China ) think of all this and the investment that would most likely come into your country from non EU Countries. So if Scotland flourished in their newly found state of independence, then why would the Scottish people want to change all this, forsake their newly found freedom, give this all up in order to come under the control of the undemocratic EU ?
Also why on earth would socialists support the ''neoliberal, undemocratic EU'' ? After all, the EU is a deeply undemocratic institution enforcing austerity and privatisation on its member states. In what strange world is this a progressive institution and why would the proud and fiercely Independent Scots not want to be the masters of their own destiny ? Trading deals and close links with the UK, Eu and the rest of the world, yes of course, but surely retain the freedom to govern yourselves !!

[Thor]

The Scots have a couple of major hurdles. 1) They don’t have their own currency 2) They don’t have a central bank 3) The EU stated previously it would have to wait 2 years before entering the EU, how will it trade without a currency and without a central bank? The BofE has said it won’t guarantee the Scots debt or money and the Pound will not be allowed to be used.

[EH16]

The Scots have a couple of major hurdles. 1) They don’t have their own currency 2) They don’t have a central bank 3) The EU stated previously it would have to wait 2 years before entering the EU, how will it trade without a currency and without a central bank? The BofE has said it won’t guarantee the Scots debt or money and the Pound will not be allowed to be used.

You're right and that's the problem the SNP need to solve. IF they can come up with a convincing plan (and I recognise it's a big if) the next referendum will be a shoe in yes.

[Sid Bishop]

The Scots have a couple of major hurdles. 1) They don’t have their own currency 2) They don’t have a central bank 3) The EU stated previously it would have to wait 2 years before entering the EU, how will it trade without a currency and without a central bank? The BofE has said it won’t guarantee the Scots debt or money and the Pound will not be allowed to be used.

You're right and that's the problem the SNP need to solve. IF they can come up with a convincing plan (and I recognise it's a big if) the next referendum will be a shoe in yes.

You forgot to add.........''In my opinion'' !!

Also you only replied to the second part of my comment above which was in reply to @FargO and in regard to the problems Scotland may encounter leaving the UK and joining the EU. The first part you chose to ignore e.g as below

@FargO wrote: ↑Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:39 pm
''I voted for joining the common market in the original referendum. Nobody asked my permission to enrol me in a federal Europe.
Strange how people who were not around at the time do not realise that.''

I replied ''When that same question was raised in the referendum in 1975 by people like patriotic left wing Labour party people like Shore, Benn, Foot plus Enoch Powell, well Heath and Jenkins etc who were on the other side of the debate ( pro remain in the Common Market ) said it was all scare mongering and would NOT happen !! Well we know know that they lied through their teeth !!
Also ironic that for years Labours Kinnock and Corbyn were very Anti EU, but became fans of the EU......when it suited them !''

[Disoriented]

Brexit is dead and buried. More chance now of Lord Lucan turning up alive as a transgender priest.

[Sid Bishop]

Brexit is dead and buried. More chance now of Lord Lucan turning up alive as a transgender priest.

Wow what a thought, many a thing said in jest...........!!

[Disoriented]

Brexit is dead and buried. More chance now of Lord Lucan turning up alive as a transgender priest.

Wow what a thought, many a thing said in jest...........!!

[Sid Bishop]

Brexit is dead and buried. More chance now of Lord Lucan turning up alive as a transgender priest.

Wow what a thought, many a thing said in jest...........!!

How about having a Transgender Prime Minister ?

[Disoriented]

Wow what a thought, many a thing said in jest...........!!

How about having a Transgender Prime Minister ?

Won’t happen in our lifetime Sid.

[BoniO]

Wow what a thought, many a thing said in jest...........!!

How about having a Transgender Prime Minister ?

Take a long hard look at "Teresa".....

[Disoriented]

A ‘hard’ look - no thanks.

[Sid Bishop]

A ‘hard’ look - no thanks.

Mrs May, not exactly the flavour of the month is she !
At present, she is somewhat akin to those type of third world country leaders who hang onto power by whatever means they can !
Seems to me that May and Corbyn may well be conniving between them to cobble up a cooked up and fake Brexit soon to avoid the humiliation of both the Brexit and Change UK parties getting more votes than them in the upcoming May 2019 European elections.
Get a joint Brexit agreement soon and these EU elections then wont take place in the UK, thus face saving for both Conservative and Labour parties !!
If that does happen, then surely a case of ''The enemy of my enemy is my friend'' !!