Supporters Reps 1st Meeting

[Lucky7]

Minutes are here

https://www.leytonorient.com/2019/12/05 ... s-meeting/

[The Big Shot]

ComeOnYouOs and eagwgw currently are both probably looking for conspiracy theories and going down the clubs to bins, to find out a reason why this has taken 3 months to come out.

[Thor]

Just looked at the report on the club website. In respect to the fan as a board member they said it’s due to tax reasons which I’ve heard previously. Now they’ve made it clear that this relates to Eagle investments, which the inland revenue regard as a USA holding company. Fine, no problem. However, the trading entity is Leyton Orient Football Club Ltd whose business is UK based, holds the players registrations and pays their salaries through that entity. Surely a fan rep on that board would not incur tax liabilities from the IRS? If they did then so would everyone else who was a board member, which I’m sure they don’t.

Hmrc is only interested in non resident directors and what duties they undertake and if they were done in this country. Now I’m not a tax expert, but it seem to me that there doesn’t appear to be a reason why someone could not be appointed to the board. My guess is they are concerned about gossip and the leaking of information in my opinion.

If anyone is a tax expert on here is my thinking right?

[Still's Carenae]

Possibly as LOFC is the trading name of Eagle investments. If you are a board member of LOFC you are deemed to have a legal position within Eagle.

All the other directors run or are board members of other companies and they will have tax and legal advice on there tax affairs, which has to be separate from their companies.

[ComeOnYouOs]

ComeOnYouOs and eagwgw currently are both probably looking for conspiracy theories and going down the clubs to bins, to find out a reason why this has taken 3 months to come out.

Sorry, I'm not like you.....I don't believe everything I'm told. I was brought up to ask questions.
I'm not looking for any conspiracy here. I've other important things to deal with in my life at the moment

[Real Al]

In section 3.7 it states that a large unit was moved in the West stand.

I feel this is no way to talk about our fans.

[Ronnie Hotdogs]

Are the club honestly saying that all directors of Leyton Orient FC would have to file a tax return in the US because LOFCs parent company Eagle Investments are deemed to be American by HMRC?

Even if so, it’s not that big a deal is it.

[spen666]

In section 3.7 it states that a large unit was moved in the West stand.

I feel this is no way to talk about our fans.

Some of the editing makes interesting reading


What was point 2. It is missing in its entirety, not even the header shown.

The large unit only becomes apparent after you read further on.



For the average fan this meeting and the very delayed minutes gave no meaning. It seems to be an ego trip for the permanent members and using random others as a sop. The random others are irrelevant as they won't be at next meeting to see if anything they asked about is followed up. If there are 2 meetings a year and minutes are delayed by 3 months, this means random member won't get to know response to things they raise for 9 months

There is no representation for groups with protected characteristics.


It reads as window dressing to ne

[slacker]

I’d be interested in LOFT’s ctte view of this (A Pedant seems to be the main rep on here?). Maybe it was discussed at their recent AGM, which I wasn’t able to attend. Come to think of it, I don’t think I’ve paid my subs this season yet...something I need to sort out.

Seems a very long time between meeting and minutes too [not LOFT’s AGM : they are up on their website
http://www.leytonorientfanstrust.com/st ... Chosen=479 ]

[eagwgw]

The delay is OK, it seems the SLO had an attack of the Angelieris and the notes got stuck in her outbox and thus never sent.

I can't buy the excuses about the board membership.... compliance with tax is a red herring and in any case I'd expect remuneration to be very little for this role. The NDA stuff seems quite funny - who would actually know what constitutes a breach, monitor for it, and enforce a punishment? The FBI? We probably don't even appear on the radar.

It just says to me that given the likely candidates the supporters groups would put forward the board don't trust/like them to keep things quiet but can't articulate it in those words.

It is encouraging that LOFT picked up the bit about the badge. I don't get why red-on-red has not been a problem for fans for so long (indeed, there are plenty of items in the club shop which do feature red-on-red), we could have consulted with fans regarding kit/badge preference.

[Red_Army]

The delay is OK, it seems the SLO had an attack of the Angelieris and the notes got stuck in her outbox and thus never sent.

I can't buy the excuses about the board membership.... compliance with tax is a red herring and in any case I'd expect remuneration to be very little for this role. The NDA stuff seems quite funny - who would actually know what constitutes a breach, monitor for it, and enforce a punishment? The FBI? We probably don't even appear on the radar.

It just says to me that given the likely candidates the supporters groups would put forward the board don't trust/like them to keep things quiet but can't articulate it in those words.

It is encouraging that LOFT picked up the bit about the badge. I don't get why red-on-red has not been a problem for fans for so long (indeed, there are plenty of items in the club shop which do feature red-on-red), we could have consulted with fans regarding kit/badge preference.

Some really mature and valuable questions and comments from LOFT in the minutes.

[A Pedant]

I’d be interested in LOFT’s ctte view of this (A Pedant seems to be the main rep on here?). Maybe it was discussed at their recent AGM, which I wasn’t able to attend. Come to think of it, I don’t think I’ve paid my subs this season yet...something I need to sort out.

Seems a very long time between meeting and minutes too [not LOFT’s AGM : they are up on their website
http://www.leytonorientfanstrust.com/st ... Chosen=479 ]

Have a read of the Chair's Report, which is linked in that article; the rep group is mentioned in there: "while there are some aspects to iron
out – we still haven't got formally signed-off minutes yet – I can say that it was a good and productive meeting with Nigel Travis, Danny Macklin and Martin Ling, plus several club staff, at which various subjects were discussed such as club finances, sponsorship, ticketing and stadium matters. There will be another group meeting later in the season, and as always we encourage members to both apply for the non-permanent places available and to let us know if you have issues you want raised."

[Thor]

Personally I am not bothered about these so called meetings now. Seems like if your on the orient hour your in the meeting!

No discussions with the supporter base about what we have concerns or issues with, although I take the point that Pendant makes above from the LOFT perspective. No board member to be appointed from the fan base, to me that's absolute rubbish, I'd they are employed by LOFC Ltd how is that going to cause a tax issue in the holding co with the IRS, sorry don't buy it. The minutes take 3 months to come out, it's a shambles.

I applied to be a representative last time out, I won't be bothering again thats for sure.

I've been critical of LOFT in the past, but like they say you cant change it from the outside so come on in and help out. I will be joining LOFT now and let's have our fans voices heard.

[Ronnie Hotdogs]

I’d be interested in LOFT’s ctte view of this (A Pedant seems to be the main rep on here?). Maybe it was discussed at their recent AGM, which I wasn’t able to attend. Come to think of it, I don’t think I’ve paid my subs this season yet...something I need to sort out.

Seems a very long time between meeting and minutes too [not LOFT’s AGM : they are up on their website
http://www.leytonorientfanstrust.com/st ... Chosen=479 ]

Have a read of the Chair's Report, which is linked in that article; the rep group is mentioned in there: "while there are some aspects to iron
out – we still haven't got formally signed-off minutes yet – I can say that it was a good and productive meeting with Nigel Travis, Danny Macklin and Martin Ling, plus several club staff, at which various subjects were discussed such as club finances, sponsorship, ticketing and stadium matters. There will be another group meeting later in the season, and as always we encourage members to both apply for the non-permanent places available and to let us know if you have issues you want raised."

So have LOFT rolled over and accepted this US tax stuff as a reason we can't have direct board representation?

(Much like they rolled over when Barry told them 'selling' the ground from Matchroom to the Pension fund at cost (not valuation) was simply standard tax planning).

[Ronnie Hotdogs]

Personally I am not bothered about these so called meetings now. Seems like if your on the orient hour your in the meeting!

No discussions with the supporter base about what we have concerns or issues with, although I take the point that Pendant makes above from the LOFT perspective. No board member to be appointed from the fan base, to me that's absolute rubbish, I'd they are employed by LOFC Ltd how is that going to cause a tax issue in the holding co with the IRS, sorry don't buy it. The minutes take 3 months to come out, it's a shambles.

I applied to be a representative last time out, I won't be bothering again thats for sure.

I've been critical of LOFT in the past, but like they say you cant change it from the outside so come on in and help out. I will be joining LOFT now and let's have our fans voices heard.

It is funny how certain names seem to get drawn out for events more frequently than others. They must just be lucky.

[Max B Gold]

Just looked at the report on the club website. In respect to the fan as a board member they said it’s due to tax reasons which I’ve heard previously. Now they’ve made it clear that this relates to Eagle investments, which the inland revenue regard as a USA holding company. Fine, no problem. However, the trading entity is Leyton Orient Football Club Ltd whose business is UK based, holds the players registrations and pays their salaries through that entity. Surely a fan rep on that board would not incur tax liabilities from the IRS? If they did then so would everyone else who was a board member, which I’m sure they don’t.

Hmrc is only interested in non resident directors and what duties they undertake and if they were done in this country. Now I’m not a tax expert, but it seem to me that there doesn’t appear to be a reason why someone could not be appointed to the board. My guess is they are concerned about gossip and the leaking of information in my opinion.

If anyone is a tax expert on here is my thinking right?

Yes. Its bullshit for the mushrooms to consume.

[A Pedant]

Personally I am not bothered about these so called meetings now. Seems like if your on the orient hour your in the meeting!

No discussions with the supporter base about what we have concerns or issues with, although I take the point that Pendant makes above from the LOFT perspective. No board member to be appointed from the fan base, to me that's absolute rubbish, I'd they are employed by LOFC Ltd how is that going to cause a tax issue in the holding co with the IRS, sorry don't buy it. The minutes take 3 months to come out, it's a shambles.

I applied to be a representative last time out, I won't be bothering again thats for sure.

I've been critical of LOFT in the past, but like they say you cant change it from the outside so come on in and help out. I will be joining LOFT now and let's have our fans voices heard.

Keren did a random drawing of names from the hat for the 5 'non-permanent' attendees, just to be clear.

Whether you do join LOFT or not (and if you do, welcome!), I'd still encourage you to put your name forward for the next meeting - it's designed so that over time, more and more fans get to go to one of these rather than it being just the same old usual suspects.

[EliotNes]

No sensations in the Minutes IMO and from my experience with a considerable number of organisations it’s not unusual for it to take 3 months to publish minutes.

[spen666]

Personally I am not bothered about these so called meetings now. Seems like if your on the orient hour your in the meeting!

No discussions with the supporter base about what we have concerns or issues with, although I take the point that Pendant makes above from the LOFT perspective. No board member to be appointed from the fan base, to me that's absolute rubbish, I'd they are employed by LOFC Ltd how is that going to cause a tax issue in the holding co with the IRS, sorry don't buy it. The minutes take 3 months to come out, it's a shambles.

I applied to be a representative last time out, I won't be bothering again thats for sure.

I've been critical of LOFT in the past, but like they say you cant change it from the outside so come on in and help out. I will be joining LOFT now and let's have our fans voices heard.

Keren did a random drawing of names from the hat for the 5 'non-permanent' attendees, just to be clear.

Whether you do join LOFT or not (and if you do, welcome!), I'd still encourage you to put your name forward for the next meeting - it's designed so that over time, more and more fans get to go to one of these rather than it being just the same old usual suspects.

In my opinion Its point less being a random member because you have no way to hold club to account re answers to your questions as you will not be at meeting when they report back and it's a further 3 months after meeting you are not at before you get the minutes. Thus 9 months have passed since query and if club haven't answered, so what? You are not there to follow the issue up.


It's appears to me to be an ego thing for those in the clique and irrelevant to the huge majority who are neither represented, nor consulted....unless you pay to join LOFT or LOSC.


To misquote a slogan, it's for the few not the many

[Ronnie Hotdogs]

I get what you're saying and yes, you may have a point.

But equally, if you have a valid concern or point to raise, go straight to the main man Macklin and he'll respond to you. It's not as if he shys away from the fanbase is it.

[spen666]

I get what you're saying and yes, you may have a point.

But equally, if you have a valid concern or point to raise, go straight to the main man Macklin and he'll respond to you. It's not as if he shys away from the fanbase is it.

I am guessing you are replying to my comments.

I agree with you re club & Danny Macklin.

I wasn't criticising the club