The Labour Manifesto

[StillSpike]

It's not meaningless at all. People were confidently spouting about how much more some poor imagined soul earning "just" £80K was going to be paying in Tax - the figure prove that conclusively to be bollocks - because, as usual, they don't (or choose not to) understand marginal tax rates.

As I say, happy to show my workings - are you?

[Ronnie Hotdogs]

Redo, he would be one of droves. Bleeding the wealthy who as I stated already pay a disproportionate chunk of our taxes is a failed policy. They simply relocate , take their wealth with them and the result is massive job loss. Not only do the mega rich pay a fortune in taxes but when they flaunt their wealth the treasury benefits by a further 20%.
For the benefit of prestige I will add that unfortunately I am not in that bracket.

Any rich scumbag who wants to feck off rather than pay taxes is welcome to do just that. Whereas, your scare tactic that this would necessarily mean huge job losses is a fallacy. Moving themselves is one thing, moving their businesses is a very different thing. Let the parasites go and good riddance.

Deluded. The billionaires will of course F off. So will the multi millionaires. You want to know who will end up paying for all this. All the muggins on this board.

Gonna need some big ferries to transport all their properties and businesses down to Monaco.

[Ronnie Hotdogs]

Surely this will come from these companies vast profits?

f.me red the only people who will pay are the public for Christ sake

May be we need to look into these corporations a little bit more if they can simply pass these taxes onto us as consumers.

[Beradogs]

It's not meaningless at all. People were confidently spouting about how much more some poor imagined soul earning "just" £80K was going to be paying in Tax - the figure prove that conclusively to be bollocks - because, as usual, they don't (or choose not to) understand marginal tax rates.

As I say, happy to show my workings - are you?

You are supporting you’re argument to vote labour by saying that income tax rates will not go up for the majority of people. That may be so, at least initially, but income tax rates are irrelevant. It’s like me arguing to save elephants by talking about Melons. Labour will not have access to capital markets without paying a very high price. That price will be higher yields and the subsequent rise in inflation. We might not be paying more tax initially but we will be paying more for everything else. John Macdonnell has already said he expects a run on the pound. Investors will not park money in Uk assets without more guarantees (higher yields) causing even more inflation. Tax rates eventually rocket because the government has no income as it can’t raise money from debt buyers. Hedge funds will love the smell of Uk blood in the morning.

[StillSpike]

With respect - no I wasn't. I was rebuffing clear bullshit that even moderate earners (like £80K is moderate) would be paying huge amounts more in income tax.

Now, I'm happy to engage with your opinion - so long as you strip out the jargon and explain it. Try to imagine that I'm reasonably intelligent but I don't work in the City (that is possible, you know ). What's a "high price" for capital? I assume you mean an interest rate (is that what you mean by yield ?- if so, just call it that). Why does that lead to inflation? How does that affect the relative value of the £.

[Eat The Rich]

It's not meaningless at all. People were confidently spouting about how much more some poor imagined soul earning "just" £80K was going to be paying in Tax - the figure prove that conclusively to be bollocks - because, as usual, they don't (or choose not to) understand marginal tax rates.

As I say, happy to show my workings - are you?

You are supporting you’re argument to vote labour by saying that income tax rates will not go up for the majority of people. That may be so, at least initially, but income tax rates are irrelevant. It’s like me arguing to save elephants by talking about Melons. Labour will not have access to capital markets without paying a very high price. That price will be higher yields and the subsequent rise in inflation. We might not be paying more tax initially but we will be paying more for everything else. John Macdonnell has already said he expects a run on the pound. Investors will not park money in Uk assets without more guarantees (higher yields) causing even more inflation. Tax rates eventually rocket because the government has no income as it can’t raise money from debt buyers. Hedge funds will love the smell of Uk blood in the morning.

So what you're saying is that Capitalism is totally unresponsive to democracy no matter how corrosive it has become. If we try and even things out even a little bit Capital will take a great big bite out of us. It sure does sound like Capital has got a bit big for its boots. Surely this is more of a threat to sovereignty and Western democracy than the EU, right? I mean, from what you're saying there's naff all we can do if the billionaires want to take the piss. If we try and stop them they'll just piss off with the loot.
Its a bit like saying you've come downstairs in the middle of the night and found some blokes sitting on your sofa, drinking your beer, watching your tele, eating your food and pissing in your plant pot. You ask them to leave and they earnestly tell you that while they could leave if they do they'll have to take all your stuff with them and you wouldn't want that would you? What a f*cking racket. And people defend this?

[Thor]

The one thing I fully expected to see and am disappointed that it’s not mentioned, is the tax evasion of large multinational companies operating within the uk. I accept that the companies are not breaking any laws, but in my personal view it is immoral what they do to avoid paying their fair share of tax.

The usual suspects apply. Google, Amazon, Starbucks, Vodaphone etc. The loopholes that are utilised really need to be shut down once and for all then maybe, just maybe the fairer society we all want to live in just might be deliverable.

[Scuba Diver]

I've been having Excel fun with the Manifesto Income Tax bands. Here's what I've calculated (happy to show workings)

Someone on £20,000 p.a will pay £0.00 more per week in income tax than now
Someone on £30,000 p.a will pay £0.00 more per week in income tax than now
Someone on £40,000 p.a will pay £0.00 more per week in income tax than now
Someone on £60,000 p.a will pay £0.00 more per week in income tax than now
Someone on £80,000 p.a will pay £0.00 more per week in income tax than now
Someone on £85,000 p.a will pay £4.81 more per week in income tax than now
Someone on £100,000 p.a will pay £19.23 more per week in income tax than now
Someone on £125,000 p.a will pay £43.27 more per week in income tax than now
Someone on £150,000 p.a will pay £91.35 more per week in income tax than now
Someone on £250,000 p.a will pay £187.50 more per week in income tax than now
Someone on £300,000 p.a will pay £235.58 more per week in income tax than now

Be interested to see this, Spike (genuinely), could you PM me please with the pointers ? Many thanks

[Eat The Rich]

I've been having Excel fun with the Manifesto Income Tax bands. Here's what I've calculated (happy to show workings)

Someone on £20,000 p.a will pay £0.00 more per week in income tax than now
Someone on £30,000 p.a will pay £0.00 more per week in income tax than now
Someone on £40,000 p.a will pay £0.00 more per week in income tax than now
Someone on £60,000 p.a will pay £0.00 more per week in income tax than now
Someone on £80,000 p.a will pay £0.00 more per week in income tax than now
Someone on £85,000 p.a will pay £4.81 more per week in income tax than now
Someone on £100,000 p.a will pay £19.23 more per week in income tax than now
Someone on £125,000 p.a will pay £43.27 more per week in income tax than now
Someone on £150,000 p.a will pay £91.35 more per week in income tax than now
Someone on £250,000 p.a will pay £187.50 more per week in income tax than now
Someone on £300,000 p.a will pay £235.58 more per week in income tax than now

Be interested to see this, Spike (genuinely), could you PM me please with the pointers ? Many thanks

If his calculations are correct then someone on roughly 5k a week will instead be pulling in around £4765. Just the two foreign holidays a year now. Oh the humanity!

[Thor]

I've been having Excel fun with the Manifesto Income Tax bands. Here's what I've calculated (happy to show workings)

Someone on £20,000 p.a will pay £0.00 more per week in income tax than now
Someone on £30,000 p.a will pay £0.00 more per week in income tax than now
Someone on £40,000 p.a will pay £0.00 more per week in income tax than now
Someone on £60,000 p.a will pay £0.00 more per week in income tax than now
Someone on £80,000 p.a will pay £0.00 more per week in income tax than now
Someone on £85,000 p.a will pay £4.81 more per week in income tax than now
Someone on £100,000 p.a will pay £19.23 more per week in income tax than now
Someone on £125,000 p.a will pay £43.27 more per week in income tax than now
Someone on £150,000 p.a will pay £91.35 more per week in income tax than now
Someone on £250,000 p.a will pay £187.50 more per week in income tax than now
Someone on £300,000 p.a will pay £235.58 more per week in income tax than now

Be interested to see this, Spike (genuinely), could you PM me please with the pointers ? Many thanks

If his calculations are correct then someone on roughly 5k a week will instead be pulling in around £4765. Just the two foreign holidays a year now. Oh the humanity!

I might be missing what you are saying here. Someone earning 5k a week only pays £235 a week tax? If so sign me up for some of that. I think your calculations are wrong.

[StillSpike]

How do I upload an image here nowadays guys? Tinypic is gone

[Ronnie Hotdogs]

Be interested to see this, Spike (genuinely), could you PM me please with the pointers ? Many thanks

If his calculations are correct then someone on roughly 5k a week will instead be pulling in around £4765. Just the two foreign holidays a year now. Oh the humanity!

I might be missing what you are saying here. Someone earning 5k a week only pays £235 a week tax? If so sign me up for some of that. I think your calculations are wrong.

You are missing what is being said here. Entirely.

[PoundhillO]

I've been having Excel fun with the Manifesto Income Tax bands. Here's what I've calculated (happy to show workings)

Someone on £20,000 p.a will pay £0.00 more per week in income tax than now
Someone on £30,000 p.a will pay £0.00 more per week in income tax than now
Someone on £40,000 p.a will pay £0.00 more per week in income tax than now
Someone on £60,000 p.a will pay £0.00 more per week in income tax than now
Someone on £80,000 p.a will pay £0.00 more per week in income tax than now
Someone on £85,000 p.a will pay £4.81 more per week in income tax than now
Someone on £100,000 p.a will pay £19.23 more per week in income tax than now
Someone on £125,000 p.a will pay £43.27 more per week in income tax than now
Someone on £150,000 p.a will pay £91.35 more per week in income tax than now
Someone on £250,000 p.a will pay £187.50 more per week in income tax than now
Someone on £300,000 p.a will pay £235.58 more per week in income tax than now

Be interested to see this, Spike (genuinely), could you PM me please with the pointers ? Many thanks

If these figures are correct the people on over 80k a year can well afford the small rises to help pay for the needed changes.

[Ronnie Hotdogs]

Did anyone else see Angry from Bolton on last nights QT claiming to earn over £80k and moaning about these modest tax rises?

[StillSpike]

Pending being able to show the whole spreadsheet - here's an example of the calculations:

So, for example, at the moment, someone on, say, £100 K.

Their first 12,500 is tax free
Their next 37,500 is at 20% (up to £50K)
Their next 50,000 is at 40% (fro £50 - £100) -

So their total tax bill would be (12,500 * 0) + (37,500 * 20%) + (50,000 * 40%) = 27,500

Under the Labour proposals:

Their first 12,500 is tax free
Their next 37,500 is at 20% (up to £50K)
Their next 30,000 is at 40% (from £50K - £80) -
Their final 20,000 is at 45% (£80K - £100)

So their total tax bill would be (12,500 * 0) + (37,500 * 20%) + (30,000 * 40%) + (20,000 * 45%) = 28,500

£1,000 a year is just over £19 a week.

It's also probably worth pointing out the obvious - someone on £100,000 a year would still, under the proposals, only be paying 28.5% of their Salary in Income Tax (obvs they'd have to pay NI as well, but it does rather give the lie to all those nonsense "we have to pay over half our money in Tax" lies that the papers fill up with. Even under Labour's proposals, it's a mathematical impossibility for anyone to have to pay as much as half their salary in Income tax - so if the 21st century version of the Who or the Stones tries to tell you they are - they're lying.

[Dunners]

£1,000 a year just so you Northerners can finally have decent broadband to watch your porn! f*** that, I'm voting for Boris!

[HARVEY T DENTON]

Have to say, getting JC to visit Birmingham, on the anniversary of the pub bombings, was probably not the best idea.

[Eat The Rich]

Have to say, getting JC to visit Birmingham, on the anniversary of the pub bombings, was probably not the best idea.

Yeh, that well known man of violence Jeremy Corbyn. Its ironic that the people most angry with Corbyn for talking to the IRA and their like are the ones who get the biggest stiffies every time nuclear Armageddon is mentioned.

[Sid Bishop]

Seems like the Conservative and Labour Party seem intent on getting the nation ever more up to its eyes in debt than it is already !
Nothing more than ''Money tree promises'' from both parties.

[Ronnie Hotdogs]

I believe the labour party manifesto has been fully costed, sidney.

[Still's Carenae]

Any rich scumbag who wants to feck off rather than pay taxes is welcome to do just that. Whereas, your scare tactic that this would necessarily mean huge job losses is a fallacy. Moving themselves is one thing, moving their businesses is a very different thing. Let the parasites go and good riddance.

Deluded. The billionaires will of course F off. So will the multi millionaires. You want to know who will end up paying for all this. All the muggins on this board.

Gonna need some big ferries to transport all their properties and businesses down to Monaco.

No - just a bank transfer and loan.

[Max B Gold]

Pending being able to show the whole spreadsheet - here's an example of the calculations:

So, for example, at the moment, someone on, say, £100 K.

Their first 12,500 is tax free
Their next 37,500 is at 20% (up to £50K)
Their next 50,000 is at 40% (fro £50 - £100) -

So their total tax bill would be (12,500 * 0) + (37,500 * 20%) + (50,000 * 40%) = 27,500

Under the Labour proposals:

Their first 12,500 is tax free
Their next 37,500 is at 20% (up to £50K)
Their next 30,000 is at 40% (from £50K - £80) -
Their final 20,000 is at 45% (£80K - £100)

So their total tax bill would be (12,500 * 0) + (37,500 * 20%) + (30,000 * 40%) + (20,000 * 45%) = 28,500

£1,000 a year is just over £19 a week.

It's also probably worth pointing out the obvious - someone on £100,000 a year would still, under the proposals, only be paying 28.5% of their Salary in Income Tax (obvs they'd have to pay NI as well, but it does rather give the lie to all those nonsense "we have to pay over half our money in Tax" lies that the papers fill up with. Even under Labour's proposals, it's a mathematical impossibility for anyone to have to pay as much as half their salary in Income tax - so if the 21st century version of the Who or the Stones tries to tell you they are - they're lying.

I haven't worked through the numbers yet but one thing is glaringly obvious and that is the Englocentric nature of the assumptions. Tax rates in Scotland are not the same as in Englandshire.

[Max B Gold]

Have to say, getting JC to visit Birmingham, on the anniversary of the pub bombings, was probably not the best idea.

That's bordering on the IMBECILIC. I expect better from you.

[Ronnie Hotdogs]

Deluded. The billionaires will of course F off. So will the multi millionaires. You want to know who will end up paying for all this. All the muggins on this board.

Gonna need some big ferries to transport all their properties and businesses down to Monaco.

No - just a bank transfer and loan.

So they won't be taking all their property and businesses out of the country?

[greyhound]

100.000 council houses in the first year brilliant.
then it all goes pear shaped.open door policy so we all no where the houses will go.
it wont be going to people who have been waiting and living here all there lives hopping for a council house.