Player ratings.

[Disoriented]

It is noticeable that there are three ex dagenham players in this team

I don't know if all three Ling / Jmd / wilkinson ever played in DR at the same time in league 2 as DR do go up and down between the two divisions.

I remember DR going quite well at times in div 2 under Still and I don't think DR were conceding two goals every match- even the year they went down.

The point may have some relevance - that these three are decent players hence that why we signed them further Ling was a regular England C right back so he is a good player generally

I also think the difference in l2 and last season is being overblown and the gap is much closer - hence players were signed believing they would be capable of league two.

On the radio it said by dave and his co presenter that the first goal was scored by a player who played at Weymouth last year and he was going well in league two this year and Weymouth are further down the football ladder - so it's not correct all this talk about the difference by our staff and players. I wish they would all stop this and focus on the team without that comment as all it does is reinforce mental negativity in a compound way.

If we were doing better with a few more points all this talk about stepping up would not be even highlighted as it is and I notice players and management over the last moth of so as the results have gone poor have highlighted the alleged difference but I do recall an interview with ML where he specifically said that he was going to look at recordings to see the standard of league two and that was after we got promoted " to see what was there" or words to that effect

Our preparation each game is more that just tactics and fitness

In any job you need to go to work believing in who you are and the colleagues you work with are capable in that environment for success in your own job to occur - best way is to get team talks pre and post match with no reference with league two comparing to last year league 2 we all know that we as team when performing correctly are capable by this group.

I guess that's where the successful managers and clubs are different they attack the preparations in a more holistic successful way - very basic if you think about it really

There is definitely a step up, Ling has made that mistake once in his career already when we got promoted to L1 and seems to be history repeating itself.

At tinpot NL level you've got part-time sides who haven't got the nous or the fitness to compete, you've got poor strikers who who miss easy one on ones (we got away with some real let-offs at times last season) but back in the EFL you get punished.

Based on Embleton and Coulson's interview where they both confessed to being surprised by the step up in quality it appears Ling didn't share the result of his viewings

It's all very well saying "if we had a few more wins" but that's a moot point. We're not getting them because of the errors and being punished by teams who are better drilled, fitter and more ruthless.

The other crux of the situation is we took a good NL squad, removed its two best assets, didn't fix the issues (CM and quality ST cover) then put them in a division above with inexperienced manager. One of the two would make life difficult, putting both together leads us to where we are now, in a relegation dogfight

It could well be Embleton is bearing the brunt of decisions made by Ling but seeing as we don't know exactly who is deciding what the interim manager will have to take the flak.

Good analysis.

[Sid Bishop]

There is definitely a step up, Ling has made that mistake once in his career already when we got promoted to L1 and seems to be history repeating itself.

At tinpot NL level you've got part-time sides who haven't got the nous or the fitness to compete, you've got poor strikers who who miss easy one on ones (we got away with some real let-offs at times last season) but back in the EFL you get punished.

Based on Embleton and Coulson's interview where they both confessed to being surprised by the step up in quality it appears Ling didn't share the result of his viewings

It's all very well saying "if we had a few more wins" but that's a moot point. We're not getting them because of the errors and being punished by teams who are better drilled, fitter and more ruthless.

The other crux of the situation is we took a good NL squad, removed its two best assets, didn't fix the issues (CM and quality ST cover) then put them in a division above with inexperienced manager. One of the two would make life difficult, putting both together leads us to where we are now, in a relegation dogfight

It could well be Embleton is bearing the brunt of decisions made by Ling but seeing as we don't know exactly who is deciding what the interim manager will have to take the flak.

Good analysis.

I am unable to go to any matches. When you say teams are fitter how can that be we have so many back room staff covering this aspect, all all three coaches have been around a great deal to know the fitness level needed - there is also the new degree qualified fitness guy

Do you describe rather than fitness a perceived lack of cohesion on the style of play or tactics at times that gives the impression players are not competing to a ball like the opposition ?

I really amazed at footballers being called out on fitness when you have tennis players like Federer at his age and Nadal which just played I believe around five hours in the USA open and won

If one man can play tennis for that length of time how does a footballer in a team of 10 outfield have any question on their fitness when they are full time sports preople

I have also been amazed at the intensity of men's tennis and the level of fitness shown by players like Rafael Nadal, Roger Federer, Novak Djokovic and of course Andy Murray before his hip injury. Those players are like ''Supermen'' and show a far higher dedication to their fitness levels and lifestyles compared to football players.

[Sid Bishop]

[quote=UpminsterO post_id=46662 time=1569109513 user_id=734]
It is noticeable that there are three ex dagenham players in this team

I don't know if all three Ling / Jmd / wilkinson ever played in DR at the same time in league 2 as DR do go up and down between the two divisions.

I remember DR going quite well at times in div 2 under Still and I don't think DR were conceding two goals every match- even the year they went down.

''It is noticeable that there are three ex dagenham players in this team''
Actually there are four ex ''Daggers'' players now playing for the O's !!
Joe Widdowson also played for Dagenham & Redbridge
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Widdowson

2014–2015 → Dagenham & Redbridge (loan) 3 games
2015–2017 Dagenham & Redbridge 94 games

[Sid Bishop]

It is noticeable that there are three ex dagenham players in this team

I don't know if all three Ling / Jmd / wilkinson ever played in DR at the same time in league 2 as DR do go up and down between the two divisions.

I remember DR going quite well at times in div 2 under Still and I don't think DR were conceding two goals every match- even the year they went down.

The point may have some relevance - that these three are decent players hence that why we signed them further Ling was a regular England C right back so he is a good player generally

I also think the difference in l2 and last season is being overblown and the gap is much closer - hence players were signed believing they would be capable of league two.

On the radio it said by dave and his co presenter that the first goal was scored by a player who played at Weymouth last year and he was going well in league two this year and Weymouth are further down the football ladder - so it's not correct all this talk about the difference by our staff and players. I wish they would all stop this and focus on the team without that comment as all it does is reinforce mental negativity in a compound way.

If we were doing better with a few more points all this talk about stepping up would not be even highlighted as it is and I notice players and management over the last moth of so as the results have gone poor have highlighted the alleged difference but I do recall an interview with ML where he specifically said that he was going to look at recordings to see the standard of league two and that was after we got promoted " to see what was there" or words to that effect

Our preparation each game is more that just tactics and fitness

In any job you need to go to work believing in who you are and the colleagues you work with are capable in that environment for success in your own job to occur - best way is to get team talks pre and post match with no reference with league two comparing to last year league 2 we all know that we as team when performing correctly are capable by this group.

I guess that's where the successful managers and clubs are different they attack the preparations in a more holistic successful way - very basic if you think about it really

There is definitely a step up, Ling has made that mistake once in his career already when we got promoted to L1 and seems to be history repeating itself.

At tinpot NL level you've got part-time sides who haven't got the nous or the fitness to compete, you've got poor strikers who who miss easy one on ones (we got away with some real let-offs at times last season) but back in the EFL you get punished.

Based on Embleton and Coulson's interview where they both confessed to being surprised by the step up in quality it appears Ling didn't share the result of his viewings

It's all very well saying "if we had a few more wins" but that's a moot point. We're not getting them because of the errors and being punished by teams who are better drilled, fitter and more ruthless.

The other crux of the situation is we took a good NL squad, removed its two best assets, didn't fix the issues (CM and quality ST cover) then put them in a division above with inexperienced manager. One of the two would make life difficult, putting both together leads us to where we are now, in a relegation dogfight

It could well be Embleton is bearing the brunt of decisions made by Ling but seeing as we don't know exactly who is deciding what the interim manager will have to take the flak.

Well said.

[Rich Tea Wellin]

It is noticeable that there are three ex dagenham players in this team

I don't know if all three Ling / Jmd / wilkinson ever played in DR at the same time in league 2 as DR do go up and down between the two divisions.

I remember DR going quite well at times in div 2 under Still and I don't think DR were conceding two goals every match- even the year they went down.

The point may have some relevance - that these three are decent players hence that why we signed them further Ling was a regular England C right back so he is a good player generally

I also think the difference in l2 and last season is being overblown and the gap is much closer - hence players were signed believing they would be capable of league two.

On the radio it said by dave and his co presenter that the first goal was scored by a player who played at Weymouth last year and he was going well in league two this year and Weymouth are further down the football ladder - so it's not correct all this talk about the difference by our staff and players. I wish they would all stop this and focus on the team without that comment as all it does is reinforce mental negativity in a compound way.

If we were doing better with a few more points all this talk about stepping up would not be even highlighted as it is and I notice players and management over the last moth of so as the results have gone poor have highlighted the alleged difference but I do recall an interview with ML where he specifically said that he was going to look at recordings to see the standard of league two and that was after we got promoted " to see what was there" or words to that effect

Our preparation each game is more that just tactics and fitness

In any job you need to go to work believing in who you are and the colleagues you work with are capable in that environment for success in your own job to occur - best way is to get team talks pre and post match with no reference with league two comparing to last year league 2 we all know that we as team when performing correctly are capable by this group.

I guess that's where the successful managers and clubs are different they attack the preparations in a more holistic successful way - very basic if you think about it really

There is definitely a step up, Ling has made that mistake once in his career already when we got promoted to L1 and seems to be history repeating itself.

At tinpot NL level you've got part-time sides who haven't got the nous or the fitness to compete, you've got poor strikers who who miss easy one on ones (we got away with some real let-offs at times last season) but back in the EFL you get punished.

Based on Embleton and Coulson's interview where they both confessed to being surprised by the step up in quality it appears Ling didn't share the result of his viewings

It's all very well saying "if we had a few more wins" but that's a moot point. We're not getting them because of the errors and being punished by teams who are better drilled, fitter and more ruthless.

The other crux of the situation is we took a good NL squad, removed its two best assets, didn't fix the issues (CM and quality ST cover) then put them in a division above with inexperienced manager. One of the two would make life difficult, putting both together leads us to where we are now, in a relegation dogfight

It could well be Embleton is bearing the brunt of decisions made by Ling but seeing as we don't know exactly who is deciding what the interim manager will have to take the flak.

Spot on

[Rich Tea Wellin]

Some good analysis on this thread.

I think the point about fitness is interesting. I think the late goals are a bit of a result of this along with the lack of intensity . Last year we’d fire out if the blocks and keep that going for 90+ minutes. Haven’t seen a game this year where we’ve been anywhere near that intensity so far.

I also massively agree with the mentality issue. It’s tough when you’re in a rut, but in any job, not just football, you need the person at the top to be motivated and motivating.

We’ve all worked under good managers and bad managers. Ross clearly has imposter syndrome (understandably) but agree with what someone said on another thread that he should start wearing a suit on the touchline. It’s things like that, where it doesn’t actually do anything technically but it gives him the sense of authority. ultimately people being managed need to believe that the manager knows what they are doing, have heir back, but also calls them out in private, when they aren’t meeting expectations. I don’t get the impression, from performances, that this is the case.

[Rich Tea Wellin]

Saying all that, I still don’t think Ross wants this job and it really shows in our performances.

[LittleMate]

As sure as I have a hole in my arse, I don't think there is another team in this league that would play Brophy and JMD in the same team or midfield. Both lacking in defensive awareness and in Brophy's case tactical awareness. It's not made better by Wright not being an explosive player; he's a drifter through a game.

[Ronnie Hotdogs]

I like the term ‘drifter’. That’s exactly our issue, we have far too many of them.

Marvin and Coulson keep getting flak for misplacing long balls but they shouldn’t be doing that. The only reason they have to resort to that is because too many players hide when we have the ball. Our midfield is a joke.

[Sid Bishop]

I like the term ‘drifter’. That’s exactly our issue, we have far too many of them.

Marvin and Coulson keep getting flak for misplacing long balls but they shouldn’t be doing that. The only reason they have to resort to that is because too many players hide when we have the ball. Our midfield is a joke.

I agree, we do not play as a tight unit with midfield and defence playing as a team, closing down, marking up etc. So many times long balls and midfield nowhere to be seen, then a cross from the wing areas, and hey ho, another goal conceded.

[Ronnie Hotdogs]

Ling - drifter.

Wright - drifter.

Marsh - drifter.

Brophy - drifter.

JMD - drifter.

[Ronnie Hotdogs]

Not the biggest fan of either but at least Clay and Gorman do try and inject a bit of tempo into our game, Clay when pressing the opposition and Dale when on the ball.

[Thor]

Why was Gorman dropped? He was one of the better players this past few games and once again wright does absolutely nothing in a game and stays on for the full 90 mins. Bizarre.

[Ronnie Hotdogs]

Why was Gorman dropped? He was one of the better players this past few games and once again wright does absolutely nothing in a game and stays on for the full 90 mins. Bizarre.

No idea mate.

Again, not Gormans biggest fan but can’t understand Brophy coming in ahead of him.

The 5 that started in front of the defence yesterday - Marsh, Wright, Brophy, JMD and Dennis - is pathetically weak. No wonder we’re making every team we play against look like Brazil and getting turned over week after week.

[Chief crazy horse]

I like the term ‘drifter’. That’s exactly our issue, we have far too many of them.

Marvin and Coulson keep getting flak for misplacing long balls but they shouldn’t be doing that. The only reason they have to resort to that is because too many players hide when we have the ball. Our midfield is a joke.

Clint was also a drifter.

[gshaw]

I am unable to go to any matches. When you say teams are fitter how can that be we have so many back room staff covering this aspect, all all three coaches have been around a great deal to know the fitness level needed - there is also the new degree qualified fitness guy

Do you describe rather than fitness a perceived lack of cohesion on the style of play or tactics at times that gives the impression players are not competing to a ball like the opposition ?

If we compare to last season the players back then we're still running through brick walls for the full 90+ minutes. You'd get Bonne full pelt sprinting down the line to get to a hoof into the corner or Clay tracking back length of the pitch to make a challenge.

This season we hit around 80 minutes, sometimes even earlier and the players look whacked. Hands on hips, jogging back, unable to keep up with play as it transitions. Wilkinson in some games starts off competing for headers, running the line etc but by second half looks shot and ready to come off.

Clay compared to the swashbuckling player from last season is puffing by second half and only making half-hearted attempts to win the ball by time we get to that 80 min mark. He's needed that time out the starting line-up.

Brill is 50% great saves and 50% rooted to the spot this season, again different player to what we saw last season and still carrying effects of missing pre-season with injury imo.

There just seems a general malaise about the squad fitness wise. They don't look sharp enough to press and compete for the full 90. Our pre-season schedule didn't help as they had it far too easy against a bunch of part-time sides and it seems there was a bit of complacency about stepping up to L2 from NL. Also have to wonder how much difference the change of fitness coach has had in this too.

[LeytonOstone]

I am unable to go to any matches. When you say teams are fitter how can that be we have so many back room staff covering this aspect, all all three coaches have been around a great deal to know the fitness level needed - there is also the new degree qualified fitness guy

Do you describe rather than fitness a perceived lack of cohesion on the style of play or tactics at times that gives the impression players are not competing to a ball like the opposition ?

If we compare to last season the players back then we're still running through brick walls for the full 90+ minutes. You'd get Bonne full pelt sprinting down the line to get to a hoof into the corner or Clay tracking back length of the pitch to make a challenge.

This season we hit around 80 minutes, sometimes even earlier and the players look whacked. Hands on hips, jogging back, unable to keep up with play as it transitions. Wilkinson in some games starts off competing for headers, running the line etc but by second half looks shot and ready to come off.

Clay compared to the swashbuckling player from last season is puffing by second half and only making half-hearted attempts to win the ball by time we get to that 80 min mark. He's needed that time out the starting line-up.

Brill is 50% great saves and 50% rooted to the spot this season, again different player to what we saw last season and still carrying effects of missing pre-season with injury imo.

There just seems a general malaise about the squad fitness wise. They don't look sharp enough to press and compete for the full 90. Our pre-season schedule didn't help as they had it far too easy against a bunch of part-time sides and it seems there was a bit of complacency about stepping up to L2 from NL. Also have to wonder how much difference the change of fitness coach has had in this too.

"Malaise" is a good call - evidenced yesterday for the first 60 odd minutes, at which point we seemed to realise we needed to start competing or we were going home empty handed. Sadly that realisation came too late.

[Millennial Snowflake]

Don't really buy the point about fitness. Yes there will be a step up in intensity (which is the case when going up any level) but the players should be capable of bridging that. Only about 3 or 4 National League teams are genuinely part-time, the vast majority will train full-time now. The main difference is that last season we had Bonne who would run all day and put defences under pressure, and him and Koroma could hold the ball far up the pitch. This season the ball is coming back too easily and opposition defenders and midfielders have too much time to play good balls into strikers' feet, meaning we're inevitably going to have to do more chasing around.

[RedDwarf 1881]

Saying all that, I still don’t think Ross wants this job and it really shows in our performances.

It's irrelevant whether he wears a suit or not . He's not up to the job of manager and that's all there is to it . In reality what will happen is he'll end up being given too much time in the job before the club acts and brings in a new experienced manager.

[gshaw]

Don't really buy the point about fitness. Yes there will be a step up in intensity (which is the case when going up any level) but the players should be capable of bridging that. Only about 3 or 4 National League teams are genuinely part-time, the vast majority will train full-time now. The main difference is that last season we had Bonne who would run all day and put defences under pressure, and him and Koroma could hold the ball far up the pitch. This season the ball is coming back too easily and opposition defenders and midfielders have too much time to play good balls into strikers' feet, meaning we're inevitably going to have to do more chasing around.

So in not so many words you're suggesting the replacements aren't good enough or the system we're playing doesn't suit them?

Last season was all about being able to withstand the physical battering and assault and be willing to literally fight to win games. Now it's a bit more technical and we're coming up against flair players rather than non-league cloggers we're chasing shadows. Not chasing them with enough vigour either.

[LittleMate]

I like the term ‘drifter’. That’s exactly our issue, we have far too many of them.

Marvin and Coulson keep getting flak for misplacing long balls but they shouldn’t be doing that. The only reason they have to resort to that is because too many players hide when we have the ball. Our midfield is a joke.

There is a further reason why they are drifters and that's because they have not been given a proper sense of purpose. JE man managed each player and then the team to get performances out of them. He almost certainly did it based on their likelihood to respond; talk to the quiet ones and wind up the emotional ones - that sort of thing. We probably did have someone genuinely unique in that respect and from almost the first game he was in charge of it became worth points to us. Ross does not have this and most managers don't have it to be fair, but each manager has a particular manner that gets most of his players to respond most of the time. Ross is trying to learn on the job and we will know more in 6-8 games time how good this squad is and how good Ross is at getting the most out of them. We have yet to discover whether we have been playing all the good teams or they are good because they keep taking 3 points off us. I suspect Ross will be found wanting but I'd dearly like him to prove me wrong in this. He's a good man trying to do a job that was impossible for him to succeed at.

[Ronnie Hotdogs]

Don't really buy the point about fitness. Yes there will be a step up in intensity (which is the case when going up any level) but the players should be capable of bridging that. Only about 3 or 4 National League teams are genuinely part-time, the vast majority will train full-time now. The main difference is that last season we had Bonne who would run all day and put defences under pressure, and him and Koroma could hold the ball far up the pitch. This season the ball is coming back too easily and opposition defenders and midfielders have too much time to play good balls into strikers' feet, meaning we're inevitably going to have to do more chasing around.

So in not so many words you're suggesting the replacements aren't good enough or the system we're playing doesn't suit them?

Last season was all about being able to withstand the physical battering and assault and be willing to literally fight to win games. Now it's a bit more technical and we're coming up against flair players rather than non-league cloggers we're chasing shadows. Not chasing them with enough vigour either.

It’s hilarious that we have stooped so low that our fans can, with all sincerity, talk about the flair of Division 4 footballers.

[gshaw]

Don't really buy the point about fitness. Yes there will be a step up in intensity (which is the case when going up any level) but the players should be capable of bridging that. Only about 3 or 4 National League teams are genuinely part-time, the vast majority will train full-time now. The main difference is that last season we had Bonne who would run all day and put defences under pressure, and him and Koroma could hold the ball far up the pitch. This season the ball is coming back too easily and opposition defenders and midfielders have too much time to play good balls into strikers' feet, meaning we're inevitably going to have to do more chasing around.

So in not so many words you're suggesting the replacements aren't good enough or the system we're playing doesn't suit them?

Last season was all about being able to withstand the physical battering and assault and be willing to literally fight to win games. Now it's a bit more technical and we're coming up against flair players rather than non-league cloggers we're chasing shadows. Not chasing them with enough vigour either.

It’s hilarious that we have stooped so low that our fans can, with all sincerity, talk about the flair of Division 4 footballers.

The fact the footballing powerhouse of Swindon Town were such a refreshing change to watch says just what crap we had to put up with for two seasons in the NL. The thought of seeing that again makes me shudder