Eat The Rich wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 11:48 pm
I found the old "return to his old job" stuff a bit far fetched when ML first announced it. First of all the humiliation would be fairly intense and difficult to deal with. Second even an assistant manager or coach must have some authority and RE's would be shot to f*ck. Who's going to do four laps of the training ground because he says so? Who's going to take on his advice going forward? The bloke who got his chance and totally messed it up? No chance. The only situation in which RE would get demoted was one in which he'd done spectacularly badly (because I think ML will defend his man to the hilt) and in that case its going to be like living with an unloved partner who's sleeping in the spare room because he got caught wanking on a bus. In other words awkward and uncomfortable.
You assume that he was only interim without a further plan.
I heard floating around that Ross.would be put in charge until Jobi had completed his badges , then Jobi would be bought into do the Job full time , at which time Ross would be back to his coaching roll .
Dont see how it is losing face to Help the club during some of its saddest times.
Giving him a new job like head of academy would save face for all.
Perhaps Ross needed the job safety net assurance to agree to take the role, but IMO it's badly constructed. If results don't recover I can't see the team benefiting from him sticking around it and the more fresh ideas the better.
The scenario in which it probably would have worked is if Ross did an acceptable job and we got in a manager who we couldn't turn down due to track record.... That could still happen though.
Originally my own preference at the time would be for Justin to have his pick of assistant, if that was gonna be Ross then fair enough. The entire backroom signed new deals in summer 2018, so perhaps Justin was satisfied with them all, although at times on the bench it seemed that Danny Webb was more the second in command.
I don't really believe in a system where a manager and assistant manager are put together, though. I believe the presence of Embelton was necessary at the start as Ling's remit was to decide the style of play, and the head coach was to implement that. Getting two outsiders in as manager and assistant (whose loyalty would lie with the manager) risked him becoming a minority in discussions, with Ross there would be always someone to back him.
We've moved far away from that now and I don't believe Lingy has any input in style of play, at least not under Justin. Therefore the need for someone like Ross is much less, to not at all. Ling himself might know a bit about it, he inherited Ian Culverhouse as assistant originally, we were transformed when he got rid of him and replaced him with Dean Smith.
The academy set-up wouldn't be a downgrade IMO. Ross has 20 years experience, 3 of those in mens football and 17 in youth football. It might be the case that his skills lie in the youth side and he will be able to make a bigger contribution to the club from there rather than being in a position where he may not have the complete skillset.
Didn't really have a problem with Ross stepping up, it was a difficult situation. Don't really believe in the half-way measures.
PoundhillO wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 5:00 pm
Embleton has to go after today's performance, he is totally out of his depth.
Agreed. Not to go as such but to revert back to his original coaching roll which obviously suites him better.
Reverting RE back to his original assistant head coach role could, in itself cause a problem! A good few managers will want to have a say in who they have working for them and if Ross is going to be a fixture as assistant then that may make the job less attractive to some potential candidates.
I have said this same thing time and again but the RE ''Happy Clappers'' will have none of it !!
Originally my own preference at the time would be for Justin to have his pick of assistant, if that was gonna be Ross then fair enough. The entire backroom signed new deals in summer 2018, so perhaps Justin was satisfied with them all, although at times on the bench it seemed that Danny Webb was more the second in command.
I don't really believe in a system where a manager and assistant manager are put together, though. I believe the presence of Embelton was necessary at the start as Ling's remit was to decide the style of play, and the head coach was to implement that. Getting two outsiders in as manager and assistant (whose loyalty would lie with the manager) risked him becoming a minority in discussions, with Ross there would be always someone to back him.
We've moved far away from that now and I don't believe Lingy has any input in style of play, at least not under Justin. Therefore the need for someone like Ross is much less, to not at all. Ling himself might know a bit about it, he inherited Ian Culverhouse as assistant originally, we were transformed when he got rid of him and replaced him with Dean Smith.
The academy set-up wouldn't be a downgrade IMO. Ross has 20 years experience, 3 of those in mens football and 17 in youth football. It might be the case that his skills lie in the youth side and he will be able to make a bigger contribution to the club from there rather than being in a position where he may not have the complete skillset.
Didn't really have a problem with Ross stepping up, it was a difficult situation. Don't really believe in the half-way measures.
In theory out of the 3 coaches on our staff, for me, Jobi comes across as the most likely to succeed as a future manager of the Os, problem is at present he has not completed the courses for the coaching badges he needs before he can be considered for that job. Even then, rather a risk being as Jobi has never done the job of manager before. I thought myself that out of the two we have that COULD have taken the interim role, that Danny Webb was a better choice, but ML chose Ross. To me, just gut feeling that Ross just does not seem to have that authority or tactical nous about him to be a good manager of a football League team. I agree that Ross also comes across to me as more like the enthusiastic type of young guy who would be best suited to being in charge of the youth academy.
Eat The Rich wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 11:48 pm
I found the old "return to his old job" stuff a bit far fetched when ML first announced it. First of all the humiliation would be fairly intense and difficult to deal with. Second even an assistant manager or coach must have some authority and RE's would be shot to f*ck. Who's going to do four laps of the training ground because he says so? Who's going to take on his advice going forward? The bloke who got his chance and totally messed it up? No chance. The only situation in which RE would get demoted was one in which he'd done spectacularly badly (because I think ML will defend his man to the hilt) and in that case its going to be like living with an unloved partner who's sleeping in the spare room because he got caught wanking on a bus. In other words awkward and uncomfortable.
You assume that he was only interim without a further plan.
I heard floating around that Ross.would be put in charge until Jobi had completed his badges , then Jobi would be bought into do the Job full time , at which time Ross would be back to his coaching roll .
Agreed. I’m sure Jobi will go on to have a career in management, and highly doubt either Embleton or Webb will. But that idea of filling time until Jobi has the qualifications is nonsense.
We are rudderless. We again made a bang average side look like world beaters. We could have been 4-0 down at half time. It’s not because of the quality of our players, it’s down to the management.
Frankly I’m not that bothered about McAnuff’s future prospects as a manager or if RE’s feelings may be hurt by being removed by a reluctant Martin Ling from a role in which he is not succeeding. The club needs to look long and hard at the current position and decide - objectively- on the best way forward. If that’s stick with Embleton then okay - if it’s change things then so be it. The Justin Edinburgh era is unfortunately behind us and there is no use wallowing in self pity. Move on and face up to reality.
Ross referred to himself as interim manager during the post match interview and the headline on the club website does the same. I find that interesting. It's a reminder in any event that it's not a question of sacking Ross because he's not actually in post.
Originally my own preference at the time would be for Justin to have his pick of assistant, if that was gonna be Ross then fair enough. The entire backroom signed new deals in summer 2018, so perhaps Justin was satisfied with them all, although at times on the bench it seemed that Danny Webb was more the second in command.
I don't really believe in a system where a manager and assistant manager are put together, though. I believe the presence of Embelton was necessary at the start as Ling's remit was to decide the style of play, and the head coach was to implement that. Getting two outsiders in as manager and assistant (whose loyalty would lie with the manager) risked him becoming a minority in discussions, with Ross there would be always someone to back him.
We've moved far away from that now and I don't believe Lingy has any input in style of play, at least not under Justin. Therefore the need for someone like Ross is much less, to not at all. Ling himself might know a bit about it, he inherited Ian Culverhouse as assistant originally, we were transformed when he got rid of him and replaced him with Dean Smith.
The academy set-up wouldn't be a downgrade IMO. Ross has 20 years experience, 3 of those in mens football and 17 in youth football. It might be the case that his skills lie in the youth side and he will be able to make a bigger contribution to the club from there rather than being in a position where he may not have the complete skillset.
Didn't really have a problem with Ross stepping up, it was a difficult situation. Don't really believe in the half-way measures.
Well the DOF role is a nonsense anyway.
The first thing Ling should have done in 2017 was to have appoint a manager not bring his mate in first.
He acted like the manager bringing in players and using up the budget before finally bringing in a manager.
We now have a situation where it’s like a mates club.
You may have noticed when the new owners at Bolton took over their first job was to appoint a manager and let him bring his own players in.
UpminsterO wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:06 am
I used to live in the same road as Pat Holland the WHU and Lofc player manager
I said to him once - and he is a really nice person - that you were a very successful youth coach.He replied that he really preferred coaching youths and enjoyed that much more
I noticed his car was red and he had many arsenal stuff on the wall - this is decades after he had been at WHU and Lofc and was obviously working at arsenal in some capacity - he definitely knows a lot about football tactics players reputations etc etc but on here over the years gets a real slagging as his role when manager
Some people are exceptional in one environment but not in others it's a really hard game being a successful manger
Eat The Rich wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 11:48 pm
I found the old "return to his old job" stuff a bit far fetched when ML first announced it. First of all the humiliation would be fairly intense and difficult to deal with. Second even an assistant manager or coach must have some authority and RE's would be shot to f*ck. Who's going to do four laps of the training ground because he says so? Who's going to take on his advice going forward? The bloke who got his chance and totally messed it up? No chance. The only situation in which RE would get demoted was one in which he'd done spectacularly badly (because I think ML will defend his man to the hilt) and in that case its going to be like living with an unloved partner who's sleeping in the spare room because he got caught wanking on a bus. In other words awkward and uncomfortable.
You assume that he was only interim without a further plan.
I heard floating around that Ross.would be put in charge until Jobi had completed his badges , then Jobi would be bought into do the Job full time , at which time Ross would be back to his coaching roll .
EastDerehamO wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 5:33 pm
At the start of the season I felt that 10 to 12 games would be a reasonable crack of the whip for Ross to give an indication as to his potential , and we’re in that zone now. Two points from the last six isn’t encouraging, albeit narrow defeats to Crewe and Colchester don’t indicate we’re completely out of it either.
Gut instinct is that next Saturday’s match v Vale – which will be my first visit of the season - could prove decisive though. A loss there would be the fourth on the bounce at home, and that would be worrying, especially given that Vale don’t look like they are setting L2 alight.
Narrow in terms of scoreline; not narrow in terms of performances. Particularly yesterday.
That written, it would be worth hanging fire for the next two home games. A home win would change things.
Fantastic support – even for us at the end there, we had a right good go and I hope they can see that. What I would say is please, please stick with us. Please stick with us, and more importantly stick with the boys. If people want to aim criticism at someone, I’m more than happy to take that. I’m here in an interim role and I’m doing the best I can to help, -Ross Embleton
I am reading between the lines but Ross’s comment indicates he doesn’t expect to be full time manager and maybe for not much longer. I do admire him for saying this and I hope Orient win the next home game for him. Must be hard for him to take on the role, but he is as he says doing his best.
The ‘interim’ appointments were deliberate, and I presume that the owners/ ML would have had a rough date in mind where they needed to have made up their minds on RE, and either confirm him in the role or hit the reset button and appoint someone else.
My view is that after ten league games we are in that period of decision.
Yes 10 games seems close to time-up - it may go a couple more. My biggest fear is that we have a slight improvement and he stays and that we dip in 2020 and end up fighting for our lives
Byways1 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:53 pm
I can see this being Ross's last game in charge tomorrow if we get the pasting I’m expecting.
Spot on.
What idiots thought he would be given a load more time.
Blimey the stadium would have been empty with some of the disorganised crap being dished up.
Sol Campbell is far and away the best candidate.
