Lineup for today

[Story of O]

I sometimes wonder what certain people expect of league 2 players. Just watched Man City lose to Norwich, and their defence and midfield made quite a few mistakes. If our players had done the same thing, they would have been torn apart on here.

[gshaw]

I sometimes wonder what certain people expect of league 2 players. Just watched Man City lose to Norwich, and their defence and midfield made quite a few mistakes. If our players had done the same thing, they would have been torn apart on here.

First and foremost that they have a go, which today was far better than the frankly embarrassing capitulation last week against Swindon.

Whether Ross was always planning on the 4-5-1 this week or was forced into it due to Happe being missing is up for debate but there's no doubt having Marsh in the middle made a positive impact. Sounds like less aimless hoofball too with Dennis and JMD in the side.

However Ross he showed his naivety again with the substitutions when we needed to see the game out. When will he learn Alabi isn't the answer?

[DonaldRocks]

A good defence does not turn bad over night, what goes wrong is the coaching and what they are being asked to do.

Last season around xmas time we started shipping goals and you could see that JE got them out on the training pitch and worked on shape, positioning etc. And then we had a few games of not conceding again and the defensive unit went back to being solid. It takes work and direction.

It seems to me from the games I've been to the shape, positioning and instructions have changed from what they were being asked last season. For example last week it was pretty clear that even after just 3 mins the instruction was to not press the opposition. That's a massive change and invites pressure on to the back line.

The big difference being in that JE was an experienced manager who had played as a defender in the Premier league and knew how to set up teams, especially defensively as against RE who is far less experienced in football management and was never good enough as a player to have played in any of the English Football League teams.

Not sure that's relevant though. The standard of past football career is not necessarily an indicator of whether someone is a good manager/able to set up a team more effectively.

Agree. José managed teams to capture plenty of trophies and I don't believe he played at a high level. Stand to be corrected.

Brophy probably would have started today if fit and Happe would have been on the bench. You would have had a stronger bench then and more flexibility when making substitutions.

[tuffers#1]

Jose played league 2 football in portugal
His dad was his boss & he dropped him
Then sold him/ let him go.

[Smendrick Feaselberg]

Arsene Wenger didn't play professional football at all. Don't think Jurgen Klopp was anything other than a German second division player.

Loads of example of failed managers who played at the top level too. Sid likes to hark on about the olden days so Bobby Moore might be a reasonable example of a top class player who didn't become a top class manager. So not sure where this idea has come from that being a top level player means you're a better manager than someone who wasn't.

[Disoriented]

Arsene Wenger didn't play professional football at all. Don't think Jurgen Klopp was anything other than a German second division player.

Loads of example of failed managers who played at the top level too. Sid likes to hark on about the olden days so Bobby Moore might be a reasonable example of a top class player who didn't become a top class manager. So not sure where this idea has come from that being a top level player means you're a better manager than someone who wasn't.

Spot on. Geoff Hurst and Bobby Charlton also illustrate your point.

[Howling Mad Murdock]

Before we decide to go defensive at home again...Please see Norwich Ciry.

I didn't even bother watching as I expected them to lose but by all accounts with the team they had at the start before I switched over , looked like they would be slaughtered.

They took on Man City and look what happened.

[Lovejoy]

The most recent high profile manager who was not a professional player was Maurizio Sarri. As a player he played Sunday league football and his job before becoming a manager was a banker. He hasn't done badly has he?

[Ronnie Hotdogs]

And we have a completely new strikeforce when last season we had one that could take a massive amount of pressure off the defence. And we’re playing a different system.

It’s a combination of many things. And remember everyone has defensive responsibilities, not just the back four.

Yep.

Without wanting to sound like a wannabe pundit, it’s true that you defend from the front. Even when not playing well, Bonne still held the ball and put pressure on the back line when they had the ball. As did Koroma (mainly under instruction from Macca). We haven’t got that this season.

[Disoriented]

What about managers that win a lot but we're just ordinary players
There appears no relationship to a players own ability and then when they become a manager

Have to agree. Mourinho was no player for one.

[O my gawd]

I sometimes wonder what certain people expect of league 2 players. Just watched Man City lose to Norwich, and their defence and midfield made quite a few mistakes. If our players had done the same thing, they would have been torn apart on here.

First and foremost that they have a go, which today was far better than the frankly embarrassing capitulation last week against Swindon.

Whether Ross was always planning on the 4-5-1 this week or was forced into it due to Happe being missing is up for debate but there's no doubt having Marsh in the middle made a positive impact. Sounds like less aimless hoofball too with Dennis and JMD in the side.

However Ross he showed his naivety again with the substitutions when we needed to see the game out. When will he learn Alabi isn't the answer?

That's not a 4-5-1, with Dennis & JMD either side of Angol that's a 4-3-3. Very sensible to bring an extra CM into midfield & pleasing to see Gorman show what he is capable of in his last 3 appearances.

[Ronnie Hotdogs]

What’s Gorman shown?

[O my gawd]

Arsene Wenger didn't play professional football at all. Don't think Jurgen Klopp was anything other than a German second division player.

Loads of example of failed managers who played at the top level too. Sid likes to hark on about the olden days so Bobby Moore might be a reasonable example of a top class player who didn't become a top class manager. So not sure where this idea has come from that being a top level player means you're a better manager than someone who wasn't.

Spot on. Geoff Hurst and Bobby Charlton also illustrate your point.

& also Alan Ball, Bobby Moore, Nobby Stiles & Martin Peters tried their hand at management without much success.
How many ex-O's players have been successful in management ?
Glenn Roeder was a great player but had a terrible record as a boss. My Dad had to go back as far as Dave Sexton to think of one.

[O my gawd]

What’s Gorman shown?

A physical presence, a goal v Southend & a general improvement in his all round play.
Admittedly I'm only going on general comments from social media & from family & mates. Haven't been since Crawley unfortunately

[Lovejoy]

Arsene Wenger didn't play professional football at all. Don't think Jurgen Klopp was anything other than a German second division player.

Loads of example of failed managers who played at the top level too. Sid likes to hark on about the olden days so Bobby Moore might be a reasonable example of a top class player who didn't become a top class manager. So not sure where this idea has come from that being a top level player means you're a better manager than someone who wasn't.

Spot on. Geoff Hurst and Bobby Charlton also illustrate your point.

& also Alan Ball, Bobby Moore, Nobby Stiles & Martin Peters tried their hand at management without much success.
How many ex-O's players have been successful in management ?
Glenn Roeder was a great player but had a terrible record as a boss. My Dad had to go back as far as Dave Sexton to think of one.

Alan Ball did have some success as a manager and was well and truly on the manager merry go round. Only he and Jack Charlton from the World Cup winning team could really be called successful.

[O my gawd]

Spot on. Geoff Hurst and Bobby Charlton also illustrate your point.

& also Alan Ball, Bobby Moore, Nobby Stiles & Martin Peters tried their hand at management without much success.
How many ex-O's players have been successful in management ?
Glenn Roeder was a great player but had a terrible record as a boss. My Dad had to go back as far as Dave Sexton to think of one.

Alan Ball did have some success as a manager and was well and truly on the manager merry go round. Only he and Jack Charlton from the World Cup winning team could really be called successful.

The obvious ex O to make it in management is Dean Smith.
I stand corrected on Alan Ball as he was successful at Pompey & Exeter.

[gshaw]

I sometimes wonder what certain people expect of league 2 players. Just watched Man City lose to Norwich, and their defence and midfield made quite a few mistakes. If our players had done the same thing, they would have been torn apart on here.

First and foremost that they have a go, which today was far better than the frankly embarrassing capitulation last week against Swindon.

Whether Ross was always planning on the 4-5-1 this week or was forced into it due to Happe being missing is up for debate but there's no doubt having Marsh in the middle made a positive impact. Sounds like less aimless hoofball too with Dennis and JMD in the side.

However Ross he showed his naivety again with the substitutions when we needed to see the game out. When will he learn Alabi isn't the answer?

That's not a 4-5-1, with Dennis & JMD either side of Angol that's a 4-3-3. Very sensible to bring an extra CM into midfield & pleasing to see Gorman show what he is capable of in his last 3 appearances.

You'd hope they'd tuck back in when defending to try and see out a game but then again bring Alabi on to do that role and shape goes out the window

The extra CM was absolutely required as Clay and Wright have been getting dominated the past few games. Whether Marsh / Wright would be more capable as a pair is interesting but no sense in changing a winning team so attack minded 4-3-3 for Tuesday.

[Disoriented]

First and foremost that they have a go, which today was far better than the frankly embarrassing capitulation last week against Swindon.

Whether Ross was always planning on the 4-5-1 this week or was forced into it due to Happe being missing is up for debate but there's no doubt having Marsh in the middle made a positive impact. Sounds like less aimless hoofball too with Dennis and JMD in the side.

However Ross he showed his naivety again with the substitutions when we needed to see the game out. When will he learn Alabi isn't the answer?

That's not a 4-5-1, with Dennis & JMD either side of Angol that's a 4-3-3. Very sensible to bring an extra CM into midfield & pleasing to see Gorman show what he is capable of in his last 3 appearances.

You'd hope they'd tuck back in when defending to try and see out a game but then again bring Alabi on to do that role and shape goes out the window

The extra CM was absolutely required as Clay and Wright have been getting dominated the past few games. Whether Marsh / Wright would be more capable as a pair is interesting but no sense in changing a winning team so attack minded 4-3-3 for Tuesday.

Pygmalion, can you explain why Alabi keeps on coming on in front of Harrold? If it is because of the shop window argument, it ain’t working.

[Rambling Man]

Our defensive record this season has been appalling. Needs to be put right quickly.

[gshaw]

That's not a 4-5-1, with Dennis & JMD either side of Angol that's a 4-3-3. Very sensible to bring an extra CM into midfield & pleasing to see Gorman show what he is capable of in his last 3 appearances.

You'd hope they'd tuck back in when defending to try and see out a game but then again bring Alabi on to do that role and shape goes out the window

The extra CM was absolutely required as Clay and Wright have been getting dominated the past few games. Whether Marsh / Wright would be more capable as a pair is interesting but no sense in changing a winning team so attack minded 4-3-3 for Tuesday.

Pygmalion, can you explain why Alabi keeps on coming on in front of Harrold? If it is because of the shop window argument, it ain’t working.

I wish I could but it remains an unsolved mystery of 19-20 season. Seems the management keep hoping he'll come good and get his moment to change a game... still waiting...

[Red_Army]

You can really tell which boarders don't go to games on this thread.

[whittle81]

& also Alan Ball, Bobby Moore, Nobby Stiles & Martin Peters tried their hand at management without much success.
How many ex-O's players have been successful in management ?
Glenn Roeder was a great player but had a terrible record as a boss. My Dad had to go back as far as Dave Sexton to think of one.

Alan Ball did have some success as a manager and was well and truly on the manager merry go round. Only he and Jack Charlton from the World Cup winning team could really be called successful.

The obvious ex O to make it in management is Dean Smith.
I stand corrected on Alan Ball as he was successful at Pompey & Exeter.

We could at stretch include Chris Wilder who was on loan back in 1992. Peter Eustace wanted to sign him, but Wilder said London was to expensive to live in.

[Sid Bishop]

Arsene Wenger didn't play professional football at all. Don't think Jurgen Klopp was anything other than a German second division player.

Loads of example of failed managers who played at the top level too. Sid likes to hark on about the olden days so Bobby Moore might be a reasonable example of a top class player who didn't become a top class manager. So not sure where this idea has come from that being a top level player means you're a better manager than someone who wasn't.

Of course being an ex football player, regardless of what level you were does NOT make a guarantee to becoming a good manager.
But I did NOT go into that area of discussion !! What I DID say was quote.........

''The big difference being in that JE was an experienced manager who had played as a defender in the Premier league and knew how to set up teams, especially defensively as against RE who is far less experienced in football management and was never good enough as a player to have played in any of the English Football League teams.''

Well all true......... JE WAS an already experienced Football Manager before he joined us, HAD played as a defender in the Premier League and DID know how to setup teams, especially defensively !! Ok, care to dispute any of that ?

Next part...... Re IS far less experienced in football management than JE was....... again care to dispute that ?

Lastly, '' Re was never good enough as a player to have played in any of the English Football League teams.'' Again the TRUTH !!

Seems like you love to twist things around that are written on this forum to your own interpretations and pick arguments ( especially with me ) for the sake of it.

[Smendrick Feaselberg]

Arsene Wenger didn't play professional football at all. Don't think Jurgen Klopp was anything other than a German second division player.

Loads of example of failed managers who played at the top level too. Sid likes to hark on about the olden days so Bobby Moore might be a reasonable example of a top class player who didn't become a top class manager. So not sure where this idea has come from that being a top level player means you're a better manager than someone who wasn't.

Of course being an ex football player, regardless of what level you were does NOT make a guarantee to becoming a good manager.
But I did NOT go into that area of discussion !! What I DID say was quote.........

''The big difference being in that JE was an experienced manager who had played as a defender in the Premier league and knew how to set up teams, especially defensively as against RE who is far less experienced in football management and was never good enough as a player to have played in any of the English Football League teams.''

Well all true......... JE WAS an already experienced Football Manager before he joined us, HAD played as a defender in the Premier League and DID know how to setup teams, especially defensively !! Ok, care to dispute any of that ?

Next part...... Re IS far less experienced in football management than JE was....... again care to dispute that ?

Lastly, '' Re was never good enough as a player to have played in any of the English Football League teams.'' Again the TRUTH !!

Seems like you love to twist things around that are written on this forum to your own interpretations and pick arguments ( especially with me ) for the sake of it.

So if the level that Edinburgh and Embleton had/hadn't played at was irrelevant then why mention it?

[Sid Bishop]

Arsene Wenger didn't play professional football at all. Don't think Jurgen Klopp was anything other than a German second division player.

Loads of example of failed managers who played at the top level too. Sid likes to hark on about the olden days so Bobby Moore might be a reasonable example of a top class player who didn't become a top class manager. So not sure where this idea has come from that being a top level player means you're a better manager than someone who wasn't.

Of course being an ex football player, regardless of what level you were does NOT make a guarantee to becoming a good manager.
But I did NOT go into that area of discussion !! What I DID say was quote.........

''The big difference being in that JE was an experienced manager who had played as a defender in the Premier league and knew how to set up teams, especially defensively as against RE who is far less experienced in football management and was never good enough as a player to have played in any of the English Football League teams.''

Well all true......... JE WAS an already experienced Football Manager before he joined us, HAD played as a defender in the Premier League and DID know how to setup teams, especially defensively !! Ok, care to dispute any of that ?

Next part...... Re IS far less experienced in football management than JE was....... again care to dispute that ?

Lastly, '' Re was never good enough as a player to have played in any of the English Football League teams.'' Again the TRUTH !!

Seems like you love to twist things around that are written on this forum to your own interpretations and pick arguments ( especially with me ) for the sake of it.

So if the level that Edinburgh and Embleton had/hadn't played at was irrelevant then why mention it?

I was just quoting facts and comparing the two peoples experience of managing and playing football.
I NEVER said that ex players who have played at a high level are automatically guaranteed to become good managers as you seemed to say in your comments following my article. Anyway I do not have to justify anything I write on this forum to the likes of you. For a long time you have persisted in following nearly every article I write with often sarcastic comments, its called ''Trolling '' you know. I noticed you just pick me out non stop, you did it before under your other name on the other forum, you dont do it to others, so I shall just block you now, cant be bothered with your nonsense any more, bye.