Last nights ref

[DrWindy]

You imply that is only the defending team who are guilty of all the nonsense that goes on at a corner but the attacking team are often just as bad

Sure both sides do it, but if they penalise the defenders it’s a penalty. That’s the deterrent and it will very quickly stop. My point is you don’t need to change the rules, you need to enforce them.

[Proposition Joe]

Beckles had their man in a headlock - again - at one point. Clear penalty.

The thing that winds me up even more is the refs doing the theatrical calling players over to talk to them about the grappling and telling them to stop, then just ignoring it when they carry on. Pointless.

[Hoover Attack]

Beckles had their man in a headlock - again - at one point. Clear penalty.

The thing that winds me up even more is the refs doing the theatrical calling players over to talk to them about the grappling and telling them to stop, then just ignoring it when they carry on. Pointless.

Totally.

I also like the ref telling their players taking throw ins to go back a couple of yards, still nowhere near where the ball went out, then letting them return to their original spot when he turned his back.

[DrWindy]

George Courtney will be turning in his grave…

Scratch that he’s still with us!

[Celtient]

OK. Which foul does he penalise? There are likely to be multiple fouls occurring at the same time by players from both sides

[DrWindy]

OK. Which foul does he penalise? There are likely to be multiple fouls occurring at the same time by players from both sides

All of them. Warn them and then follow it through. I don’t think it’s overly complex. As soon as they start to enforce the rules the fouls will stop.

It’s ridiculous that if it’s out of the box you only have to touch a player and if he goes down it’s a foul yet you can get a guy in a headlock in the box and nothing happens.

Ruining the game in my view.

[Top of the JES]

If players are seen holding, pulling or pushing before the corner is taken then sin bin them for 60 seconds and make them sit out the corner. Attacker or defender.

Beckles has gotten away with murder in the play off games.....so far.

[DrWindy]

If players are seen holding, pulling or pushing before the corner is taken then sin bin them for 60 seconds and make them sit out the corner. Attacker or defender.

Beckles has gotten away with murder in the play off games.....so far.

Why are we introducing sin bins? It’s a penalty.

[Celtient]

OK. Which foul does he penalise? There are likely to be multiple fouls occurring at the same time by players from both sides

All of them. Warn them and then follow it through. I don’t think it’s overly complex. As soon as they start to enforce the rules the fouls will stop.

It’s ridiculous that if it’s out of the box you only have to touch a player and if he goes down it’s a foul yet you can get a guy in a headlock in the box and nothing happens.

Ruining the game in my view.

You make it sound so simple. The point I am making is that the referee has an almost impossible job with 20 players all grappling with each other. Which incident do you penalise - they're all at it! Why would you necessarily penalise the defending team? Look at how Stockport managed to (illegally) clear a path for that Horsfall geezer to get his head to the ball at every corner and free kick into the O's box.

[DrWindy]

It’s very simple. You penalise the first foul. The rest don’t matter. It would stop very quickly. I don’t agree it’s complicated. It really isn’t.

[Hoover Attack]

OK. Which foul does he penalise? There are likely to be multiple fouls occurring at the same time by players from both sides

The first one he sees.

They'll all stop as soon as they know it's not going to be allowed anymore.

[Hoover Attack]

OK. Which foul does he penalise? There are likely to be multiple fouls occurring at the same time by players from both sides

All of them. Warn them and then follow it through. I don’t think it’s overly complex. As soon as they start to enforce the rules the fouls will stop.

It’s ridiculous that if it’s out of the box you only have to touch a player and if he goes down it’s a foul yet you can get a guy in a headlock in the box and nothing happens.

Ruining the game in my view.

You make it sound so simple. The point I am making is that the referee has an almost impossible job with 20 players all grappling with each other. Which incident do you penalise - they're all at it! Why would you necessarily penalise the defending team? Look at how Stockport managed to (illegally) clear a path for that Horsfall geezer to get his head to the ball at every corner and free kick into the O's box.

The refs seem to be able to spot what the worst offence is and call a player from each team over to have a word with them.

Deliberate obstruction needs to be stopped as well. This isn't American Rules.

[DrWindy]

All of them. Warn them and then follow it through. I don’t think it’s overly complex. As soon as they start to enforce the rules the fouls will stop.

It’s ridiculous that if it’s out of the box you only have to touch a player and if he goes down it’s a foul yet you can get a guy in a headlock in the box and nothing happens.

Ruining the game in my view.

You make it sound so simple. The point I am making is that the referee has an almost impossible job with 20 players all grappling with each other. Which incident do you penalise - they're all at it! Why would you necessarily penalise the defending team? Look at how Stockport managed to (illegally) clear a path for that Horsfall geezer to get his head to the ball at every corner and free kick into the O's box.

The refs seem to be able to spot what the worst offence is and call a player from each team over to have a word with them.

Deliberate obstruction needs to be stopped as well. This isn't American Rules.

Yes, you’re right that has been creeping in as well. If you don’t have control of the ball you can’t block an opposing player. That’s getting through as well now. Refereeing really isn’t great anymore.

[Celtient]

You make it sound so simple. The point I am making is that the referee has an almost impossible job with 20 players all grappling with each other. Which incident do you penalise - they're all at it! Why would you necessarily penalise the defending team? Look at how Stockport managed to (illegally) clear a path for that Horsfall geezer to get his head to the ball at every corner and free kick into the O's box.

The refs seem to be able to spot what the worst offence is and call a player from each team over to have a word with them.

Deliberate obstruction needs to be stopped as well. This isn't American Rules.

Yes, you’re right that has been creeping in as well. If you don’t have control of the ball you can’t block an opposing player. That’s getting through as well now. Refereeing really isn’t great anymore.

Well exactly. When a corner comes in there will be two attacking players obstructing the keeper from coming off his line. Does he blow for a foul for that, or does he penalise the 3 defenders who have their arms around the waists of the attacking players? Or what about the other attacking players who are blocking off the big central defender from getting his head to the ball? It has been suggested already that he gives the first foul he sees. Seems wholly unsatisfactory to me and I go back to my original comment that something radical needs to be done

[Hoover Attack]

As soon as players know the refs will blow up for one of the myriad of foul options available to him, it will stop. It really is that simple.

[DrWindy]

But it never used to be an issue. Why has it crept in? If Beckles gave away a penalty and then another one next game I would suspect he would be told to stop it. Maybe we should agree to disagree.

[CEB2ElectricBoogaloo]

The refs seem to be able to spot what the worst offence is and call a player from each team over to have a word with them.

Deliberate obstruction needs to be stopped as well. This isn't American Rules.

Yes, you’re right that has been creeping in as well. If you don’t have control of the ball you can’t block an opposing player. That’s getting through as well now. Refereeing really isn’t great anymore.

Well exactly. When a corner comes in there will be two attacking players obstructing the keeper from coming off his line. Does he blow for a foul for that, or does he penalise the 3 defenders who have their arms around the waists of the attacking players? Or what about the other attacking players who are blocking off the big central defender from getting his head to the ball? It has been suggested already that he gives the first foul he sees. Seems wholly unsatisfactory to me and I go back to my original comment that something radical needs to be done

What you do, is you get the refereeing board to issue a clarification of interpretation before the start of next season; essentially “in recent years, fouls during the execution of set pieces have tended to go unpunished unless especially egregious. From this season, referees have been instructed to punish fouls in this circumstances with the same threshold for sanctions as during any normal phase of play, both for defending and attacking teams”
Then, in the first few games of the season, in leagues without VAR the referee should punish the first offence he notices, and punish accordingly, and in leagues with VAR, the actual first offence can be punished accordingly, and almost immediately attacking teams will learn that fouling is how to ruin the advantage of a set pieces, and defending teams will learn that fouling will concede a penalty.

Most officiating issues are eminently solvable just with a willingness to resolve it. It’s simple

[Max B Gold]

The refs seem to be able to spot what the worst offence is and call a player from each team over to have a word with them.

Deliberate obstruction needs to be stopped as well. This isn't American Rules.

Yes, you’re right that has been creeping in as well. If you don’t have control of the ball you can’t block an opposing player. That’s getting through as well now. Refereeing really isn’t great anymore.

Well exactly. When a corner comes in there will be two attacking players obstructing the keeper from coming off his line. Does he blow for a foul for that, or does he penalise the 3 defenders who have their arms around the waists of the attacking players? Or what about the other attacking players who are blocking off the big central defender from getting his head to the ball? It has been suggested already that he gives the first foul he sees. Seems wholly unsatisfactory to me and I go back to my original comment that something radical needs to be done

I don't know if you remember it but a few years ago the SFA decided to crackdown on the penalty box wrestling and instructed the refs accordingly.

Willie Young (a bit if a character who was prone to reffing games within the confines of the centre circle) took them at their word and awarded 2/3 penalties at corners during a Morton game. It was a bit of a farce and the SFA swept their edict under the carpet.

[CEB2ElectricBoogaloo]

“Took them at their word”

Why would he not? You seem to be suggesting that a referee actually doing the actions that would put a stop to this stuff is somehow him being a bit weird

[Hoover Attack]

Law 12: Fouls and Misconduct
IFAB Laws of the Game 2024-25

Law 12 Fouls and Misconduct
Direct and indirect free kicks and penalty kicks can only be awarded for offences committed when the ball is in play.

1. Direct free kick

A direct free kick is awarded if a player commits any of the following offences against an opponent in a manner considered by the referee to be careless, reckless or using excessive force:
charges
jumps at
kicks or attempts to kick
pushes
strikes or attempts to strike (including head-butt)
tackles or challenges
trips or attempts to trip
If an offence involves contact it is penalised by a direct free kick or penalty kick.
Careless is when a player shows a lack of attention or consideration when making a challenge or acts without precaution. No disciplinary sanction is needed
Reckless is when a player acts with disregard to the danger to, or consequences for, an opponent and must be cautioned
Using excessive force is when a player exceeds the necessary use of force and endangers the safety of an opponent and must be sent off

A direct free kick is awarded if a player commits any of the following offences:
a handball offence (except for the goalkeeper within their penalty area)
holds an opponent
impedes an opponent with contact
bites or spits at someone on the team lists or a match official
throws an object at the ball, opponent or match official, or makes contact with the ball with a held object
See also offences in Law 3

[Celtient]

So, if referees start regularly awarding penalties at corner kicks, the fouling will stop. Hmm. I am reminded of the story off the scorpion and the frog. A scorpion arrives at a river bank and wishes to cross. Being a non-swimmer, he spies a frog and asks if it will carry him across the river on it's back. "No chance, you'll sting me" replies the frog. "Why would I do that? We'd both die in that case" says the scorpion. Reluctantly, the frog agrees and half way across the river the scorpion stings it on the back. "WTF!" exclaims the frog. The scorpion shrugs and says "It's just my nature"

[Hoover Attack]

Frogs and scorpions don't play football, though.

[Hoover Attack]

And even if they did, I highly doubt they'd be sent up for set pieces. You'd want taller animals in and around the box.

[Celtient]

Like the scorpion, Professional footballers would find it almost impossible to change their ways. I saw a fullback the other night in splendid isolation. He tried to knock it down the line and shanked it out for a throw- in. His hand immediately shot up claiming the throw. They can't help themselves

[Mistadobalina]

But it never used to be an issue. Why has it crept in? If Beckles gave away a penalty and then another one next game I would suspect he would be told to stop it. Maybe we should agree to disagree.

This stuff has happened as long as I've watched football, I think a combination of improved coverage, endless ref chat facilitated by better coverage + internet ,and corner routines becoming more pre planned, means we're just noticing it more.

There definitely needs to be a change in how laws are applied. We've been getting shafted through this grey area all season.