Southport massacre/Riot Watch

[Bandy Legs]

That's the thing. This is now going to undermine the integrity of the media and political figures who did so.

Who Ali Al-Shakati?

I was thinking more of Dr Sholla

So a Lawyer & not the Media and political figures?

[Dunners]

This one?

Yeah. I suspect quite a few people are currently busy clensing their social media history.

[faldO]

Yeah. I suspect quite a few people are currently busy clensing their social media history.

Or doubling down...

[Currywurst and Chips]

I stand by EVERY WORD *deletes words*

[Long slender neck]

No. There loads of rumours and speculation. But I recall that point in particular being made, alongside his (non) immigrant status.

I get why authorities will want to play things down, not hand ammunition to the far right and create some breathing space. But this will now be interpreted as a cover up and attempt to conceal the truth whilst punishing the poor innocent rioters who were just trying to be brave patriots.

I don't know if a 'cover up' is really plausible, not that it will matter to conspiracy theorists or those spoiling for a fight. Its not like this was our first attack by Islamic terrorists and the evidence so far that he is one of them seems limited to a single document. So I wouldn't expect authorities to declare him an islamist based solely on that, there might also be legal reasons not to come out and say things.

The main thing being said as i remember it was that he was son of christian rwandan immigrants living in wales and not *xyz rumour* and that still appears to be true.

[Hoover Attack]

The glee with which some are greeting the news that this sick murdering c*nt had a pdf about terrorism is f*cking disgusting.

[Yanzi Gravy]

The glee with which some are greeting the news that this sick murdering c*nt had a pdf about terrorism is f*cking disgusting.

Glee? Three kids been murdered, they are not coming back. No glee , the suspects is a suspect/accused all going to court, still being investigated. Why are you feeling that people are happy ? What is your proof of this?

[faldO]

No. There loads of rumours and speculation. But I recall that point in particular being made, alongside his (non) immigrant status.

I get why authorities will want to play things down, not hand ammunition to the far right and create some breathing space. But this will now be interpreted as a cover up and attempt to conceal the truth whilst punishing the poor innocent rioters who were just trying to be brave patriots.

I don't know if a 'cover up' is really plausible, not that it will matter to conspiracy theorists or those spoiling for a fight. Its not like this was our first attack by Islamic terrorists and the evidence so far that he is one of them seems limited to a single document. So I wouldn't expect authorities to declare him an islamist based solely on that, there might also be legal reasons not to come out and say things.

The main thing being said as i remember it was that he was son of christian rwandan immigrants living in wales and not *xyz rumour* and that still appears to be true.

There's been no suggestion that he's an Islamist, nor that the murders of the three young girls were terrorist-related.

As was pointed out at the time, he's a British-born Welsh boy, the son of Christian immigrants from Rwanda, was a choirboy, and has appeared in a Dr. Who themed advert for Children in Need.

But today he's been charged under both the Biological Weapons Act (production of ricin) and the Terrorism Act (possession of a military study of an al-Qaeda training manual) and to think that he was not at least in part inspired by Islamist terrorism is a stretch for many, not a conspiracy theory or spoiling for a fight.

As you say, there are legal reasons why further details are not likely to be forthcoming, risk of prejudicing the trial, etc, and the full details of the case and his motivations are not likely to be available until then.

[Currywurst and Chips]

The pdf doesn’t change any of the fundamental facts about this case.

Its late introduction (which may well have been for good reason) will provide impetus for some though. Be they Yaxley-Lennon’s mob who love a conspiracy theory or even the two candidates for Tory leader who have both suggested withheld information (which is a bit irresponsible for potential future PMs).

[Long slender neck]

The police said it is "certainly not the case" that they have been keeping things from the public. It would be highly unusual for them to release details of a live police investigation.

The CPS said it has taken time to bring the charges because this was a "lengthy and complex investigation".

It is also important to be clear that the Southport attacks are not being treated as a terrorist incident.

Possessing a document that could be useful in preparing an act of terrorism is an entirely separate offence.

To be labelled as terrorism, the attack would have to be an attempt to advance a political, religious, racial or ideological cause. But it is not clear what possible motivation there might have been.

[Norlington Road]

They must explain, what they knew and how and why they didn’t report it, but I’m sure the budget will grab the headlines and wash this serious topic aside.

[Hoover Attack]

Why must they?

[Long slender neck]

Its in the news

The most senior figures in government first became aware of the possibility of new charges against the suspect in the Southport murders in the past few weeks, the BBC has been told.

A spokesperson for the prime minister said it was "not correct" to say the government had been involved in withholding facts from the public

[Rich Tea Wellin]

What am I missing?

Aside from a good example of semantics aligned with peoples bias and sometimes hatred. Does it make it better or worse that those poor kids were killed by a Christian mental case or a terrorist mental case?

Genuinely what difference does it make to the act? The only difference is how people interpret the act.

[Dunners]

It sort of does matter, unfortunately.

I've no issue with us categorising anyone who does what he did as a mental case (or whatever term is appropriate). And I think we can all agree that mental cases may be more susceptible to radicalisation (although, not exclusively).

But, if he was radicalised into committing this act as part of some religious (or any other) ideology, then it raises further questions. Who or what radicalised him? Where are they now and what are they up to? Who else may they be influencing? etc.

What he did was horrific enough, but if production of ricin is now going to be a thing, then that has the potential to be a whole different level of disaster.

[Mistadobalina]

The police have said they still aren't treating this as a terrorist incident because they haven't established motivation. Until we know more, I think further speculation is pointless. We have no idea if he was radicalised by Islamic extremism, or whether this was the modern day equivalent to having the anarchists cook book, ie 'I want to hurt people, what's a good source for learning how to inflict maximum damage?'

It's an effective case study on how the internet encourages conspiracy theories. Whilst before you'd accept that these investigations take time and are complex, now people have a belief that they are entitled to 'know' everything immediately. And if they don't, it must be because there's a cover up.

[Rich Tea Wellin]

It sort of does matter, unfortunately.

I've no issue with us categorising anyone who does what he did as a mental case (or whatever term is appropriate). And I think we can all agree that mental cases may be more susceptible to radicalisation (although, not exclusively).

But, if he was radicalised into committing this act as part of some religious (or any other) ideology, then it raises further questions. Who or what radicalised him? Where are they now and what are they up to? Who else may they be influencing? etc.

What he did was horrific enough, but if production of ricin is now going to be a thing, then that has the potential to be a whole different level of disaster.

I agree with all of that.

But that still doesn't explain the moral 'outrage' at the police not treating it as a terrorist incident at the time as some sort of coverage. It reads like it would have been easier for people to deal with by being able to put it in a little box of 'ahh its one of the brown terrorists, that explains it'. Which, incidentally, did happen regardless of the facts. I dont remember much outrage on here from some people piping up now about labelling it as terrorism before anyone even knew the colour of the kid who did it.

[Max B Gold]

Meanwhile, fascists marching on the High Street carving up the welfare state, hotels set ablaze and all the talk is about a "cover up".

Can someone post up the footage of that nazi getting hit in the head and bollocks by bricks thrown by his nazi mates. I need a laugh and that clip works every time.

[Max B Gold]

Take care with the contempt issue guys. Don't be like Robert.

[Mistadobalina]

He's such a snivelling little sh*t bag. The guy has the stink of both corruption and moron about him, which will make him the perfect Tory leader.

[EastDerehamO]

There is a suspicion amongst many – and not just in this country – that governments and those in positions of power do on occasions withhold/ delay the truth from the voting public, or even mislead the public, for political reasons, and that never feels like a healthy democratic position to be in. It breeds discontent and false rumours and in some cases provokes protests which may (unjustifiably) turn violent.

I am all for not encouraging or passing on speculation and jumping to conclusions until the facts are known, and there will always be exceptions (e.g. reasons of national security) when not everything can be put in the public domain. But for high-profile cases such as this, this info has taken a long while to surface, I don’t know the reasons why and they haven’t been explained, but it’s not a good look.

[Mistadobalina]

I'm really struggling to understand the issue. They have taken time to evaluate all the relevant evidence to prosecute him with and having done so, have now made additional charges which have been publicly disclosed. What's the conspiracy?

[Max B Gold]

I'm really struggling to understand the issue. They have taken time to evaluate all the relevant evidence to prosecute him with and having done so, have now made additional charges which have been publicly disclosed. What's the conspiracy?

It's not so much a conspiracy they are looking to uncover but an attempt to justify the pretext for the nazi riots.

[Currywurst and Chips]

Southport ricin and terrorism charge announcement was delayed by riot fears

https://www.thetimes.com/article/dd4869 ... 6c2ece34fd

[Max B Gold]

Southport ricin and terrorism charge announcement was delayed by riot fears

https://www.thetimes.com/article/dd4869 ... 6c2ece34fd

Makes sense. Nobody wants that thick racist battered in the head and willy area with lumps of concrete again.