How much longer can Nigel sustain the losses?

[Fellowo]

That's my biggest worry over what is currently going on on the pitch.

What happens if the club doesn't find the investment its looking for. Is Nigel willing or indeed capable of sustaining the losses long term. Time will obviously tell and may well be nothing to worry about, but we may have no other option but to cut our cloth and reluctantly accept relegation and then hope that our budget constraints are enough to sustain life in league 2.

[o-no]

If the January window ends up looking like a fire sale then we'll have our answer.

[Yanzi Gravy]

That's my biggest worry over what is currently going on on the pitch.

What happens if the club doesn't find the investment its looking for. Is Nigel willing or indeed capable of sustaining the losses long term. Time will obviously tell and may well be nothing to worry about, but we may have no other option but to cut our cloth and reluctantly accept relegation and then hope that our budget constraints are enough to sustain life in league 2.

Even League Two costs fortunes. Remember the food up programmes when the bills not being paid?
The fixed expenditure must be eye watering. Hearn would not wait for his rent either. I think the owners were lucky last season but the luck is running out. Imagine the business rates on that ground alone?

[Adz]

Net worth is estimated at 30mm, so he's got to be fairly close to having spent it all. I suspect his bet worth is a fair chunk higher as he'd be insane to bankrupt himself for the sake of the club.

[Long slender neck]

I'm sure he wont be risking his familys wealth and i wouldnt expect him to. How long he wishes to go on losing money i don't know but the same applies to most club owners.

Do your bit and buy some stuff from the club. Or make your next takeaway a papa johns.

[Stowaway]

The problem is one faced by all clubs, in that they all lose money. It’s just that at the top end they have ways of subsidising the losses.

I genuinely cannot understand why anyone would invest in a football club. It’s madness and it’s only ever going to lose money. Once the wealthy benefactor pulls out, it’s almost game over - see Blackpool, Reading, Rushden & Diamonds, just off the top of my head. Salford will go the same way once Neville and co decide they don’t want to lose any more money.

It’s even worse for us because we have no assets other than the players contracts and the name. That’s it. We’ve been “lucky” so far but once Hearn ups the rent by a huge amount because he’s found a way to put the ground to a more profitable use (and that will happen, I’m sure) then we’ll have to move elsewhere and that will require a colossal input of money which will be a huge task to find. The whole lower league football business model is utterly flawed and has been for decades.

[Dunners]

The only way to make money out of owning a football club is either to use it for money laundering, security to finance other higher-risk ventures, or for asset stripping. And once the asset stripping phase is complete, it becomes harder to even make the first two options viable.

That's where we are now. We're like an old prostitute who's lost her looks and gained major health concerns. That's Hearn's legacy.

[Mistadobalina]

The other way is getting in at the right time of the massive ponzi scheme that football has become. Barry Hearn played an incredible blinder - not only did he walk away with a £10m + asset with no debt, but he actually found someone thick enough to pay him another £5m for the privilege.

I'd guess most owners are investing hoping they can time their exit at just the right for the next speculators to come in and invest enough so that their club gets to a level where they in turn can flip the club at the right time.

Ponzi schemes will always fail at some point. There will come a day where American private equity firms see a limit to how much juice can be squeezed from English football (they'll be pushing for less equitable distribution of TV money, higher ticket prices, more international club games before that happens) or there are simply no more dictator states or murky reputation laundering billionaires left.

All this chat about a football regulator isn't just a response to the super league, it's a recognition that we've been kicking the can down the road for decades now on the reckoning that'll inevitably happen in football. The total losses of the 92 football league clubs was 1.2 billion last season. That is by almost metric a failing industry.

Those fans who want us to go even deeper down the rabbit role of overspending and debt should be careful what they wish for.

[Give it to Jabo]

Owning a football club is a major ego boost. There are people with ridiculous pots of money - most of them would want a complete take-over. Things could be worse: we are not Man Utd fans.

[Mistadobalina]

Imagine having an insane egotist in charge who claims to have loads of cash. What could possibly go wrong?

[OyinbO]

Net worth is estimated at 30mm, so he's got to be fairly close to having spent it all. I suspect his bet worth is a fair chunk higher as he'd be insane to bankrupt himself for the sake of the club.

whose estimate is that?

[Max B Gold]

The only way to make money out of owning a football club is either to use it for money laundering, security to finance other higher-risk ventures, or for asset stripping. And once the asset stripping phase is complete, it becomes harder to even make the first two options viable.

That's where we are now. We're like an old prostitute who's lost her looks and gained major health concerns. That's Hearn's legacy.

The "asset stripping" funded the historic losses and running costs of the club with a few million left over for the club to spend.

The current losses are not sustainable just as they weren't in the Hearn days and just like BH Nigel is unable/unwilling to cover them any more.

To cut the losses and make the club sustainable, difficult as it is, we may have to accept L1 is not a level we can compete at. The attempt this season to maximise income by squeezing the supporters for cash won't work and the alternative is to change the wage structure and trim other areas. A poorer team leads to lower crowds and less income. Catch 22.

Only a huge injection of cash in excess of £30m can save us from the abyss.

[o-no]

I think the ego's of rich men always make them think they can do a better job than whoever went before.

I do think there are things we can do to make the club sustainable at this level, but it requires a major clearout and a renewed focus on things that can generate money if done properly, like scouting and developing youth Peterborough-style. It's a bit of a change of mindset from little Leyton Orient, community club etc.

[Stamford O]

It's a good job none of our fans would consider deserting the club should we go down and then blame the board for not bankrupting themselves to keeping the club afloat,

[Max B Gold]

I think the ego's of rich men always make them think they can do a better job than whoever went before.

I do think there are things we can do to make the club sustainable at this level, but it requires a major clearout and a renewed focus on things that can generate money if done properly, like scouting and developing youth Peterborough-style. It's a bit of a change of mindset from little Leyton Orient, community club etc.

What do you mean by a major clear out?

We already develop youth but just not very profitably. How would you change it?

I think scouting has to improve drastically.

[Mistadobalina]

Peterborough are held up as the gold standard for this and they've spent what, 2 seasons in the championship off the back of it? I'd take that in a heartbeat, particularly if it meant being financially sustainable, but you'd absolutely still have people whinging about ambition if we couldn't survive at that level.

[gshaw]

I think the ego's of rich men always make them think they can do a better job than whoever went before.

I do think there are things we can do to make the club sustainable at this level, but it requires a major clearout and a renewed focus on things that can generate money if done properly, like scouting and developing youth Peterborough-style. It's a bit of a change of mindset from little Leyton Orient, community club etc.

What do you mean by a major clear out?

We already develop youth but just not very profitably. How would you change it?

I think scouting has to improve drastically.

Clearout of the non-playing side DoF, recruitment team and imo academy too. We don't create much and even if a player is sold we don't get good fees either. Time for fresh ideas and a different approach.

Also interesting that the club often talks about the Brentford model, the first thing they did when going up the leagues was bin their academy...

[o-no]

What do you mean by a major clear out?

I mean taking a cold, hard look at each part of the organisation and seeing if it is paying its way and doing the very best job it can do. Do I think the DoF team is doing a great job - no I don't. Do I think the commercial team could get better sponsors with deeper pockets - yes, I do

We already develop youth but just not very profitably. How would you change it?

Is it not very profitably, or actually not profitably at all. I was under the impression the academy lost money, but happy to be corrected.

I think scouting has to improve drastically.

Yes - you can go onto Peterborough's website and see how many scouts they have. It's a lot - clearly something they invest in because they see the returns it can bring. Do we do that - I don't think so?

[gshaw]

Is it not very profitably, or actually not profitably at all. I was under the impression the academy lost money, but happy to be corrected.

The last time Nigel spoke about it in response to that very question was that it's loss making and they hoped it would be cost neutral within 5-10 years.

[LittleMate]

Also interesting that the club often talks about the Brentford model, the first thing they did when going up the leagues was bin their academy...

The first thing they did was turn to the analysts - who binned the academy in favour of an analytical approach. They started a development squad instead.

These days they have an academy. Jobi's youngest signed for them this season.

[Give it to Jabo]

Imagine having an insane egotist in charge who claims to have loads of cash. What could possibly go wrong?

[Max B Gold]

What do you mean by a major clear out?

I mean taking a cold, hard look at each part of the organisation and seeing if it is paying its way and doing the very best job it can do. Do I think the DoF team is doing a great job - no I don't. Do I think the commercial team could get better sponsors with deeper pockets - yes, I do

We already develop youth but just not very profitably. How would you change it?

Is it not very profitably, or actually not profitably at all. I was under the impression the academy lost money, but happy to be corrected.

I think scouting has to improve drastically.

Yes - you can go onto Peterborough's website and see how many scouts they have. It's a lot - clearly something they invest in because they see the returns it can bring. Do we do that - I don't think so?

The DoF is there because we have absent owners and is in place because of that.

One of the functions of the DoF must be to build an effective scouting network. Judging by the standard of a large portion of our recent signings that's not working.

Another function must be to get the best from youth development and that's not really happening either.

Maybe it's time for a new DoF?

[PoundhillO]

What do you mean by a major clear out?

I mean taking a cold, hard look at each part of the organisation and seeing if it is paying its way and doing the very best job it can do. Do I think the DoF team is doing a great job - no I don't. Do I think the commercial team could get better sponsors with deeper pockets - yes, I do

We already develop youth but just not very profitably. How would you change it?

Is it not very profitably, or actually not profitably at all. I was under the impression the academy lost money, but happy to be corrected.

I think scouting has to improve drastically.

Yes - you can go onto Peterborough's website and see how many scouts they have. It's a lot - clearly something they invest in because they see the returns it can bring. Do we do that - I don't think so?

The DoF is there because we have absent owners and is in place because of that.

One of the functions of the DoF must be to build an effective scouting network. Judging by the standard of a large portion of our recent signings that's not working.

Another function must be to get the best from youth development and that's not really happening either.

Maybe it's time for a new DoF?

Time for either replacing or getting rid of our current DOF and getting an effective Scouting network to replace the current one that clearly aren’t doing what they are paid for .

[Cheshunto]

I think the ego's of rich men always make them think they can do a better job than whoever went before.

I do think there are things we can do to make the club sustainable at this level, but it requires a major clearout and a renewed focus on things that can generate money if done properly, like scouting and developing youth Peterborough-style. It's a bit of a change of mindset from little Leyton Orient, community club etc.

What do you mean by a major clear out?

We already develop youth but just not very profitably. How would you change it?

I think scouting has to improve drastically.

The only scout that I know of at the club is Steve Foster………Do we have any others ??
I remember us getting Marvin Ekpiteta from East Thurrock, I think, but I can’t think of many others that have been ‘discovered’ from Non League as I think that clubs like Peterborough do

[gshaw]

Also interesting that the club often talks about the Brentford model, the first thing they did when going up the leagues was bin their academy...

The first thing they did was turn to the analysts - who binned the academy in favour of an analytical approach. They started a development squad instead.

These days they have an academy. Jobi's youngest signed for them this season.

You make a good point here about the B team / development squad, it's one of the things Ling has said in recent times I've thought was spot on. What I don't get is why you'd do that *and* have an academy full of coaching staff.

Also true that Brentford have brought the latter back now they're flush with Premiership cash, whereas we're struggling to hold head above water in League 1, that's the difference.

It says something when we have two academy GKs on the books and neither are seen as a viable option so we get someone else's academy GK in to learn on the job, it's all a bit strange.