Would we be better off in L2?

[PKM]

Let’s face it, L1 is unsustainable for us unless we have new investors with deep pockets coming in.
Club is losing £3m+ a year on 8,000 or so average gate.Despite that RW told us yesterday we’ve got one of the smallest budgets in L1.
Maybe we would be better off in L2 with a sustainable business model. Top ten budget, see more wins and goals. No need for a new ground. Just have to make sure we don’t get promoted or elect to stay in L2.
Is higher up the league system necessarily a good thing?
Brentford fans would say yes, but unless/until we get a benevolent billionaire on board, and not one like last time, then L2 looks like our natural berth.

[o-no]

Trouble is you're only one bad season away from non-league in L2 and no-one wants to go there.

Obviously we've not seen the numbers, but it feels like L1 might be sustainable if we kept the non-playing side as lean as possible, up-ed our commercial game with some decent sponsors, didn't spunk money away on dud players, occasionally developed our own youth and sold them on for a healthy profit and had the odd cup-run.

Or at least some of those things.

[scottychamps]

Under Hearn we was a top league 1 side for 11 years on the trot and almost got into the championship if we didn’t lose on pens.
So league 1 should be our level, shows what a great job Barry Hearn did and all the fans did was moan about him not putting his hand in his packet.

[moonwalk19]

Under Hearn we was a top league 1 side for 11 years on the trot and almost got into the championship if we didn’t lose on pens.
So league 1 should be our level, shows what a great job Barry Hearn did and all the fans did was moan about him not putting his hand in his packet.

During Hearns time in charge we had a level playing field with other clubs not having large budgets like we have in L1 now. The only team that had a good budget in 2014 was Wolves . Most clubs in L1 now have big backers that our board cannot match . It’s not their fault they have been great in achieving getting us in L1. But they cannot keep losing 3-4 million every year. Hearn also got out at the right time because he knew he could not take us further. Going down a league is not we want. Look at Carlisle.

[o-no]

Under Hearn we was a top league 1 side for 11 years on the trot and almost got into the championship if we didn’t lose on pens.
So league 1 should be our level, shows what a great job Barry Hearn did and all the fans did was moan about him not putting his hand in his packet.

Let’s keep Barry’s packet out of it, but the fact is because of the self serving changes Barry made, the club is a lot less appealing than many others to any passing billionaire.

[CEB2ElectricBoogaloo]

What do you even mean by “better off”? Even if it were the case that league two is more sustainable, then by that metric why not just stop moaning and enjoy a temporary trip to the level above.

I can assure you that if the club decided league two was the level therefore let’s not seek promotion from it, absolutely nobody would be happy.

So it’s obviously, obviously better to be operating at the upper limit of what’s possible, and aim to consolidate and then slowly improve. There’s obviously been a shocker of a transfer window and things haven’t worked out, but in sport that’s how it shakes out sometimes - not every club can get better season by season, some have to go backwards.

The issue really is that Orient fans have got used to significant drama - the failures and relegations have been caused by crises, and then good organisation has got Orient back to where they were a decade or so ago.

So, effectively, Orient has had a lost decade. Hopefully in January the club will take action to avoid relegation, and can regroup in the summer and look to rethink

[Bandy Legs]

Under Hearn we was a top league 1 side for 11 years on the trot and almost got into the championship if we didn’t lose on pens.
So league 1 should be our level, shows what a great job Barry Hearn did and all the fans did was moan about him not putting his hand in his packet.

Let’s keep Barry’s packet out of it, but the fact is because of the self serving changes Barry made, the club is a lot less appealing than many others to any passing billionaire.

Etihad not owned by Man City but by Manchester City Council.
St James Park not owned by Newcastle but by Newcastle City Council
Stamford Bridge not owned by Chelsea but by Chelsea pitch owners
London Stadium not owned by West Ham but by the Greater London Authority
AS Roma Lazio Inter & Ac Milan
4 other Huge clubs who Do Not OWN the ground they play in.

This belief that not owning your own ground will negate investment seems a little off

[o-no]

Not sure any of those grounds have residents living on the property though

[PoundhillO]

Let’s face it, L1 is unsustainable for us unless we have new investors with deep pockets coming in.
Club is losing £3m+ a year on 8,000 or so average gate.Despite that RW told us yesterday we’ve got one of the smallest budgets in L1.
Maybe we would be better off in L2 with a sustainable business model. Top ten budget, see more wins and goals. No need for a new ground. Just have to make sure we don’t get promoted or elect to stay in L2.
Is higher up the league system necessarily a good thing?
Brentford fans would say yes, but unless/until we get a benevolent billionaire on board, and not one like last time, then L2 looks like our natural berth.

How can anyone who is a supporter with any kind of ambitions for our club possibly even consider we would be better off in League 2 ?

[POSHO]

It's a balancing act. We have gone from near extinction to league 1 in 7 years. Too quick to allow the proper financial structure to be in place? I know other clubs have done it, but their finances have been phenomenal compared to ours. We all want success and an upward trajectory , but at what price. New 15000 seater stadium. What attendance figures justify this. I've supported Orient for over 65 years and .I want them to keep existing . League 2 and stable or championship yo yo . League 2 this season is full of money but not for us (yet)

[POSHO]

Sorry league 1 is full of money

[RedDwarf 1881]

Short answer is yes because we can't compete off the pitch with most of the clubs in League One .

[Story of O]

Being a yo yo club can be fun, because you get to enjoy promotion and see more success than a team who finish mid table every season.

[gshaw]

There's other teams in this division who are competing so I think we should be able to at least stabilise in the league. However that means being absolutely ruthless with staffing and performance, that means less "community club" and more "ambitious club" which some elements of the fanbase don't like.

- recruitment has to be better, can't afford the number of walking wounded we seem to keep going for

- the club has mentioned it's going for youth loans rather than perhaps the more journeyman pro, that strategy doesn't appear to be working

- we haven't seen a £1 million fee for a player since Gabriel Zakuani, again need to look at recruitment and also the transfer deals to see why Peterborough can get millions for players and we struggle to even see £500k

- if the academy isn't generating any players or value have a long hard look at whether it's worth putting any more money onto. If just looking at young players signing a couple of Warringtons seems a better bet than developing very young players for 7+ years only for them to end up in NL South or make half a dozen appearances then leave for U23s elsewhere

- commercially we seem to have shed loads of sponsors so not sure how much more one could expect Mark Devlin to find, one does wonder where all that revenue is going? There seems to be quite the roll call of staff on the website, is our off the field structure too bloated for this level?

As for the original question, absolutely not. Quality of football is worse and as someone said above just takes one season of poor recruitment to be heading back into the abyss.

[Mr. Homnimous]

Always go for the highest possible. If Orient plays L1, it belongs there. Difficulties can be overcome over time. Keep pushing forward.

[Norlington Road]

I made this point to a board member . What’s the point in aiming for championship , where all clubs lose 20-40 million a year and we can’t sustain losing 3 ? That’s some massive billionaire you have to find ! His reply was, as a club you have to look ambitious and show you’re moving forward.
Fact is we will need massive investment if we are to progress. Maybe that’s part of the problem this season , the players have no aim , because promotion is something we can’t afford , so what are the players , playing for ? Survival I guess

[Mistadobalina]

Upper League 2/lower League 1 is our level if you go by our gates and record since the 80s. The general trend still is that clubs end up at the level their gates can support. Breaking that link either requires massive subsidy or really innovative recruitment. If either were easy, everyone would be doing it.

Post collapse of the ITV deal, there was a lot of chat about needing to reform football finances to be more sustainable, yet we're possibly further away than ever on this. It's crackers that a subsidy of £3m a season is seen as piddling by the standards of League 1.

Demanding or hoping for even more than that doesn't seem like a healthy relationship with what supporting Orient means. Plenty of clubs we used to play regularly no longer exist, others have been mismanaged into the depths of non league. The most important thing is Orient continues to exist and play at a competitive level. There are things we could be doing better with the resources we have and I imagine there'll be a real rethink about how we recruit in the summer, regardless of whether we stay up, but the solution can't just be 'more money'.

[elO]

Let’s face it, L1 is unsustainable for us unless we have new investors with deep pockets coming in.
Club is losing £3m+ a year on 8,000 or so average gate.Despite that RW told us yesterday we’ve got one of the smallest budgets in L1.
Maybe we would be better off in L2 with a sustainable business model. Top ten budget, see more wins and goals. No need for a new ground. Just have to make sure we don’t get promoted or elect to stay in L2.
Is higher up the league system necessarily a good thing?
Brentford fans would say yes, but unless/until we get a benevolent billionaire on board, and not one like last time, then L2 looks like our natural berth.

I feel your pain but it makes no sense. Would you start scoring own goals if you look like you’ll get promoted? It’s normal for a club our size to struggle in a higher league. If we survive this season, which is still possible, next year we would have played two years in league one and we can build on that experience. I say get behind the team and let’s hope for the best. It’s only November.

[EliotNes]

BTTT
Noooooooooo

[OyinbO]

Honestly, if the primary purpose of running the football club is to minimise losses, then shouldn't we just wind it up altogether?

Sheesh.

[PKM]

The primary purpose is surely to run the club for the benefit of all and ensure it’s here for the next generation.
Ofcourse I would like to see the O’s in the premier league, but I also want to see a club that is sustainable. Given that we nearly went out if existence a few short years, ensuring we are here year in year out is no mean ambition.
L1 , losing £60k a week and one of the smallest budgets in the league. That is simply not sustainable, however others may wish it so. O’s fans are complaining of having to shell out a few extra quid for tickets. Think of Nigel, with losses approaching £10k A DAY! That can’t go on forever. So suggesting the ‘unthinkable’ that we would be better of in L2 is not something that should easily be dismissed.
As Nigel has outlined, we need investors with very deep pockets to push for the Championship and even remaining in L1 needs substantial investment. That’s the reality a lot of fans would rather ignore.

[LittleMate]

Why would we be better off in L2? A smaller squad, worse football, lower crowds - and we'd still be losing £1.5m a year minimum.

There's also no guarantee we'd be any good. Last year's 3 relegated sides are 1st; 15th and 22nd right now.....

[faith1234]

Would we better off in division 2 no because all are good work would be down the pan

[OyinbO]

So suggesting the ‘unthinkable’ that we would be better of in L2 is not something that should easily be dismissed.

I'm dismissing it very easily tbqh.

Better off for who?

[Adz]

Under Hearn we was a top league 1 side for 11 years on the trot and almost got into the championship if we didn’t lose on pens.
So league 1 should be our level, shows what a great job Barry Hearn did and all the fans did was moan about him not putting his hand in his packet.

Let’s keep Barry’s packet out of it, but the fact is because of the self serving changes Barry made, the club is a lot less appealing than many others to any passing billionaire.

Etihad not owned by Man City but by Manchester City Council.
St James Park not owned by Newcastle but by Newcastle City Council
Stamford Bridge not owned by Chelsea but by Chelsea pitch owners
London Stadium not owned by West Ham but by the Greater London Authority
AS Roma Lazio Inter & Ac Milan
4 other Huge clubs who Do Not OWN the ground they play in.

This belief that not owning your own ground will negate investment seems a little off

Yeah, but when you're an established top flight team the ancillary money you make from using your ground is insignificant compared to the TV money. For a league 1 team it is not.