Assisted Dying

[StillSpike]

I think it should be the individuals right to choose.

While I'm capable of making my feelings clear, I really want to be able to end my life painlessly and with some dignity, and I hope that when the time comes someone loves me enough to enable that, if I'm not able to do it myself. I don't want to have to pass some arbitrary test, frankly it'll be no-one's business but mine why I want to leave the party.

Try to imagine the pain of having to listen to a close and much loved relative asking "how much longer must I live? - why can't it just all end now?" and not really have any answer to offer them.

I get that there have to be some checks and balances so that people are not pressured into assisted dying, perhaps some sort of statement in front of a judge or public officer (whilst capable). A living will, I guess.

[cymruO]

One thing life has taught me is that, however many regulations, caveats and safeguardings we humans will find ways to twist things round and loopholes. My fear is that the 'right to die' will take away the 'right to live'.

[Dunners]

I'm sure that this time the safeguards will definitely work. All the other times, when they have failed, have just been anomalies.

[Yanzi Gravy]

What will statistics in news of disasters read like?

17 killed
3 assists

[Orient_Man_And_Boy]

Yes, is the simple answer but I haven’t the foggiest as to how it could be safely enshrined in law.
I just know I want my ashes to be at whatever ground is used by my beloved Orient.

[RPLancsO]

I am 100% in favour of some progression on assisted dying becoming legal, with safeguards.

My partner Steve has a major stroke in June 2021 ten minutes before the end of England v Czech Republic, the day after an atrial fibrillation ablation operation, which carries a 2% chance of a blood clot. Of course you read the small print but think it will never happen to you. His life changed in a mere 2 minutes. The stroke left him weakened (stroke language for paralysed) on his entire right side, and with some mental impairment around emotion regulation, and had very restricted vision. He developed epilepsy 4 weeks after the stroke. He kept his sense of humour, politics (anarcho-communist) and articulate range of language. He was in rehab for 5 months with no progress and so returned home to the house we adapted and with carers 7am-10pm.

He was devastated at his impairment and simply did not want to live any longer in that condition - he was an (very good - work in art galleries, @stevephilbeyartist on Instagram, stevephilbey.onfabrik.com if you are interested) artist and photographer and very active. He could no longer see to paint, and also he needed both hands. Nothing could persuade him otherwise. It was a constant elephant in the room. He had countless counselling and psychotherapy sessions and didn't budge his opinion. There were no guidelines for the decision making on assisted dying so me and his three sons had to invent our own. These were:
1. That we would kick the can down the road twice - this translated into telling him 'lets talk about it in another three months' two times, which we did.
2. That all three of his sons had to agree that he could arrange his assisted dying. Two of them agreed but his middle son Luke took longer to accept it. Our rule was that we three would not attempt to persuade Luke and neither would Steve, but that he could speak to friends etc.
3. We would find a mentor who had accompanied a relative to Switzerland to advise us and support us. We found a lovely woman who accompanied her aunt who had final stage Parkinson's (and was interviewed by the plod on her return, which is usual practice)
4. We discussed his feelings about dying with him weekly and if he showed any reluctance or wavering then that would put the process on pause. We also insisted on fortnightly counselling throughout, and paid for that ourselves privately.

After eight months, five in hospital and three at home, we felt we had no option but to let him take out Dignitas membership - 400 swiss francs. This is a compulsory part of the process of using Dignitas. The next step was telling Steve's story and transcribing it and getting it translated into German, French and Italian so it could be put to a panel of doctors in Switzerland to make a decision. Each of us (me and his sons, plus his two closest friends) helped with encouraging him to tell his story which we taped and transcribed as he could no longer type or write. The translation fee was nearly 2k.

We had to wait for a decision but in the meantime we researched how to get him to Switzerland. We settled on driving in an adapted van which we could pick up in Calais to take his wheelchair and commode, had a hoist fitted etc. We also arranged to employ two of his carers on £750 a day each (5 days in total - 16 hour drive each way and the day itself). The cost of the actual process would be 15k.

In the meantime Steve declined with persistent pneumonia (strokes can cause swallowing difficulties and his lungs regularly had food in them) and then suddenly quite rapidly. He died on August 31st 2022 at 6am, 14 months and ten days after the stroke, with us all there. We advised Dignitas who told us that his panel decision had been set for the following week. If Steve hadn't died, and Dignitas had accepted him, his three sons and me would have gone through with it. Absolutely no question. And lived with any consequences. Strokes are very borderline in the world of assisted dying, it's not a given that he would have been accepted.

I tell the story just to provide a real example of the dilemmas involved to add to the debate - no need for sympathy etc. It was very tough to live with someone close who was totally compos mentis and said on a daily basis that he wanted to die, and there was only so long we could go on denying him his wishes. He was not able to do his own finances or write, read or paint any more, so I had to assist him with the arrangements. He had a sh*t quality of life - he lost dignity as much as anything else and he couldn't bear that.

Anyway I don't post on here much at all but thought I would in this case. I'm a (female) Os fan of 40 years, attend about 25 games a season living up north as I do. I went to Lincoln yesterday, the less said the better.

[Long slender neck]

Thanks for sharing that. I don't think there's many people who have had to seriously consider assisted dying.

[LittleMate]

If I am for instance paralysed with no hope of recovery, why shouldnt I be able to end my life without causing massive problems for my family?

Agreed.

[LittleMate]

I watched my father die from the inside, where it took 15 months to diagnose (!) and another 8 to die. The last 4 months were bedridden, with him self controlling the morphene whilst being nursed at home (MacMillan's I cannot thank you enough even 17 years later). The last 2 months were horrid; the last 2 weeks nearly sent my mum - his ever faithful nurse - over the edge; the last 3 days were in St Josephs Hospice to save mum mum from joining him.

His pals shaved him; carried him upstairs for a sh*t; played cards with him; sat with him whilst he slept.

He would have gladly taken a pill to save us all the grief we endured. If someone can tell me what his purpose to living was then I will withdraw my support for assisted dying.

As a further anecdote, I lost my mum after a few years of Alzheimers 5 weeks into covid. She spent the last 18 months in a decreasingly small world. I treasured the last year, even though my mother became like a new born. Mum wanted to live, but if she had wanted to die then I would have understood her wish. Should this be legal? No I don't think so right now. Lets see how the obvious situations like my dads; Like RPLancsO's fare before even thinking about extending the scope of it in 10-20 years time.

[RPLancsO]

https://www.theguardian.com/society/202 ... ourt-rules

[Proposition Joe]

I am 100% in favour of some progression on assisted dying becoming legal, with safeguards.

My partner Steve has a major stroke in June 2021 ten minutes before the end of England v Czech Republic, the day after an atrial fibrillation ablation operation, which carries a 2% chance of a blood clot. Of course you read the small print but think it will never happen to you. His life changed in a mere 2 minutes. The stroke left him weakened (stroke language for paralysed) on his entire right side, and with some mental impairment around emotion regulation, and had very restricted vision. He developed epilepsy 4 weeks after the stroke. He kept his sense of humour, politics (anarcho-communist) and articulate range of language. He was in rehab for 5 months with no progress and so returned home to the house we adapted and with carers 7am-10pm.

He was devastated at his impairment and simply did not want to live any longer in that condition - he was an (very good - work in art galleries, @stevephilbeyartist on Instagram, stevephilbey.onfabrik.com if you are interested) artist and photographer and very active. He could no longer see to paint, and also he needed both hands. Nothing could persuade him otherwise. It was a constant elephant in the room. He had countless counselling and psychotherapy sessions and didn't budge his opinion. There were no guidelines for the decision making on assisted dying so me and his three sons had to invent our own. These were:
1. That we would kick the can down the road twice - this translated into telling him 'lets talk about it in another three months' two times, which we did.
2. That all three of his sons had to agree that he could arrange his assisted dying. Two of them agreed but his middle son Luke took longer to accept it. Our rule was that we three would not attempt to persuade Luke and neither would Steve, but that he could speak to friends etc.
3. We would find a mentor who had accompanied a relative to Switzerland to advise us and support us. We found a lovely woman who accompanied her aunt who had final stage Parkinson's (and was interviewed by the plod on her return, which is usual practice)
4. We discussed his feelings about dying with him weekly and if he showed any reluctance or wavering then that would put the process on pause. We also insisted on fortnightly counselling throughout, and paid for that ourselves privately.

After eight months, five in hospital and three at home, we felt we had no option but to let him take out Dignitas membership - 400 swiss francs. This is a compulsory part of the process of using Dignitas. The next step was telling Steve's story and transcribing it and getting it translated into German, French and Italian so it could be put to a panel of doctors in Switzerland to make a decision. Each of us (me and his sons, plus his two closest friends) helped with encouraging him to tell his story which we taped and transcribed as he could no longer type or write. The translation fee was nearly 2k.

We had to wait for a decision but in the meantime we researched how to get him to Switzerland. We settled on driving in an adapted van which we could pick up in Calais to take his wheelchair and commode, had a hoist fitted etc. We also arranged to employ two of his carers on £750 a day each (5 days in total - 16 hour drive each way and the day itself). The cost of the actual process would be 15k.

In the meantime Steve declined with persistent pneumonia (strokes can cause swallowing difficulties and his lungs regularly had food in them) and then suddenly quite rapidly. He died on August 31st 2022 at 6am, 14 months and ten days after the stroke, with us all there. We advised Dignitas who told us that his panel decision had been set for the following week. If Steve hadn't died, and Dignitas had accepted him, his three sons and me would have gone through with it. Absolutely no question. And lived with any consequences. Strokes are very borderline in the world of assisted dying, it's not a given that he would have been accepted.

I tell the story just to provide a real example of the dilemmas involved to add to the debate - no need for sympathy etc. It was very tough to live with someone close who was totally compos mentis and said on a daily basis that he wanted to die, and there was only so long we could go on denying him his wishes. He was not able to do his own finances or write, read or paint any more, so I had to assist him with the arrangements. He had a sh*t quality of life - he lost dignity as much as anything else and he couldn't bear that.

Anyway I don't post on here much at all but thought I would in this case. I'm a (female) Os fan of 40 years, attend about 25 games a season living up north as I do. I went to Lincoln yesterday, the less said the better.

Thanks for sharing this, RPLO.